109 replies to this topic

[Lazlo]

That pic looks great man! Nice job.

[sevenveils]

Hello,
I have been having problems with bacteria in my popcorn jars.
Here is my procedure:
1.)Soak 24 hrs. with ~30% coffee and 1 tbsp gypsum.
2.)Simmer 30-45 min.
3.)Rinse thoroughly, then Dry in collander then spread out on a towel until grains are dry to the touch. Load into quart jars with a little vermiculite in the bottom.
4.)PC ~75 min. 15 psi
5.) Innoculate with syringe (through polyfill hole) and place in TUT set up.
Notes: Spore prints were over 1 year old and have been taking about 7 days to germinate. At first everything is fine, the grains are dry and "clink" against the glass when shaken. I have been shaking 3-4 days after germination to mix up the vermiculite and to speed up colonization. At first, it seems to take off, then I start to notice the kind of starchy "wet spots".
Possible explanations:1.) too much heat. At first I had the aquarium heater set at 86 F. I have since turned it down to ~80.
2.) Shaking? Contamination seems to appear after shaking.
3.) Too much time before germination. This shortens the "window of opportunity" Hopefully I will have a couple of jars that are successful, then do grain to grain, then get fresh specimens for printing.
Anyway, sorry for the long read. I have been doing my research. I was just wondering if anyone had similar experiences with popcorn and how they were able to fix the problem.
Thanks for your help. This site is great.

[spyker]

I've never had problems with popcorn, nor the chicken feed whole corn... I dont soak, but cook till kernals are "al dente" haha like pasta, cooked through but still almost cooked right in the middle (it takes over an hour sometimes with the corn). Then load up jars in pc with a bit of verm on the bottom. PC for 75 mins. Have 1 out of 20 contam at most..

Verm is a key to stop the soggy bits...But your technique seems fine, although U could save urself the soaking. R U sure that your print is clean and your inoc procedure is clean?

[sevenveils]

Thanks for the reply.
I think my innoculation/syringe technique is ok.
What temp. do you incubate at?
Do you shake? Is it better to not shake, allowing the vermiculite to remain on the bottom to soak up moisture?
Well, I definitely have some experimenting to do. I will try increasing the PC time and possibly the soak time (can't hurt).

[roc]

It is possible that the spore syringe is the contamination source? I believe it could be... I never have problems with popcorn prepared as you describe.

[sevenveils]

I use 1 cc. max for innoculant.
I think you may be on to something regarding fresh air. I have one quarter inch hole(that was my biggest drill bit) in each lid stuffed pretty tight with polyfill. So I doubt much air is getting through. That is possibly why it takes off after shaking b/c it forces fresh air in that wasn't getting in otherwise.

Should I use the same quarter inch hole without polyfill and put a square of tyvek in between the ring and lid? Or should I drill more holes.

Thanks for your help. Its frustrating because I feel like I'm on the verge of success, I just need to figure out the flaw in my technique. It keeps it interesting though.

I guess it is possible the syringe/print is contaminated as the prints are pretty old. I will make new syringes with a different print and use tyvek next batch.

[sevenveils]

Thanks for the replies. I've been doing a little more reading and have learned that excessive heat and lack of fresh air create conditions for bacteria to thrive. I think my grain prep/innoc. is ok, so I'm guessing my problem is with the incubation conditions.

I had the tub-in-tub pretty tightly sealed due to placing a 30 lb. dumbell on top of the lid so the upper tub would sit lower in the water. This increased temp. and also sealed created a tight seal. So there was this stagnant hot environment in the tub. What I have done is remove the weight and leave the lid just loosely laying on top of the tub to allow the jars to "breathe" and moderate temp's.

I did notice that the jars sitting on the bottom of the tub where it is hotter have are more prone to wet spot than the jars sitting near the top of the tub.

I will try tyvek on the next batch to see if that improves air exchange.

[mullugh]

I read a thread where someone made PF cakes out of chopped up popcorn instead of BRF - It only poduced a few small mushrooms and didn't seem to be a practical new method.

However, I thought it might be a good idea to add a small amount to the BRF mix. i.e 1/5 popcorn to 4/5 BRF as the substrate.

Anyone tried this yet???

I will also try adding some used coffie grinds to the mix in my next project...

Just innoculated, so will try to keep you informed

[shedthemonkey]

Not sure this is what you meant, but...
My monkey's brother has taken popcorn, washed and double pc'd it, colinized it with cubbies, mixed it with equal volume of field-capacity wet vermiculite (also PC'd but that was just his preference...was likely clean) let it incubate for a few days, put in fruiting conditions...and produced nice yields such as in the picture. It wasn't bad for a first attempt...anyway, the second and third flush were about the same...tons of little guys.

Now if you meant using corn flour or corn meal instead of rice, there are threads in the archives that have shown these will work. Hip has said many times that rice works the best, but the other grains and grain flours can be subbed if needed. Your milage may vary. Rice is very easy to get and grinds nice in a cheap coffee grinder. If you have some awesome results with corn get pics and tell us about it. :D good luck.

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[Hippie3]

if you want a supplement for your cakes
i'd use cornmeal instead.

[mullugh]

does the cornmeal suppliment improve either yeild or colonisation time in your opinion??

Where do you get it from?

[shroomatt]

i am going to try popcorn once (or more if i like it),because i have a large surplus of organic white kernel popcorn, and when i read teks it says simmer for about 30-60 min. when they say simmer does that mean bring to a boil and turn the heat down then start the simmer, or just put it on low heat for the said amount of time?

[shroomatt]

cool, thats what i guessed.
Thx!

[shroomatt]

i have another question, once polyfill gets wet it stops filtering, right?

[BuckarooBanzai]

My FOAF has had great results hydrating popcorn in a double boiler. He has an electric stove and even on low it boils the water, bursting many kernels at the 45-55 minute time frame. The double boiler cooks slower and gets the corn a good bit softer and more hydrated before too many kernels pop (70-90 minutes). My friend checks every five minutes toward the end and takes it off the heat as soon as %3-%5 of the kernels break. My friend had excellent results with the crock pot, but it took like 3-4 hours.

My friend pours the corn out into a collander (still piping hot) and stirs it continuously with a fork for 10 minutes. By the time the corn cools, enough water has evaporated that the corn is just about perfect for colonization. If it still feels moist (too dry is MUCH better than too moist) he spreads it out on newspaper for 2-3 hours.

Wet polyfil is no longer an effective barrier against contaminants. Bugs land in the exposed moist end and then colonize the polyfil, eventually reaching inside the jar. My friend uses two layers of tyvek over a hole slightly smaller than a pencil (3/8 inch) for fresh air.

[jrogers311]

A friend soaks the popcorn for 24 hours then simmers until some kernals start splitting. Drying out the seeds is important too, couldn't agree more that too dry is better than to wet. My friend has had better succsess spawning the popcorn with crumbled colonized brf cakes than LC or multispore. Best wishes!