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DMT Fumarate and MAOI


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#1 Frequency

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:34 PM

Greetz ladies and gents!

Your dear ol' Uncle Frequency is here with a quick question for those of you with oral DMT experience. SWIF just so happens to have about half a gram of DMT fumarate salt. SWIF would like to ingest a healthy amount for recreational and spiritual exploration, thus a query: How many mg of the fumarate should SWIF ingest for a moderate experience and how much of which MAOI should be used in tandem?

There's no rue or pharms available on hand, but there is St. John's Wort readily available. Anyone with experience using St. John's Wort as a molecular watch dog protecting all those precious, fragile single-nitrogen-containing amines from that pesky endogenous oxidase? SWIF would like to blast-off asap, so any suggestions for quick access to any natural (or unnatural!) MAOI's would be greatly appreciated.

Much love and appreciation Topiates!

:rasta:
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#2 AndyLandy420

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:01 PM

I would score some rue for sure. never fails. I have been known to be major hardhead some days and a mega lightweight other days so its hard to say but last time i took oral DMT i started by drinking the tea of 4g rue, waited 15-20 minutes til I felt the warmth, then dropped a cap of 380mg crystal white DMT fumarate, kicked my ass super hard, i was going for that but it still was a little more than i bargained for. depending on your level of experience with DMT and ayahuasca and what you want from this trip, i would say probably dont exceed 250mg off the bat, 150mg would most likely be a nice mild start.

Took 500mg+ of freebase once, I survived but oh boy did I scare the living hell outta myself, good times.
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#3 Mr Kush

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 08:54 PM

I would score some rue for sure. never fails. I have been known to be major hardhead some days and a mega lightweight other days so its hard to say but last time i took oral DMT i started by drinking the tea of 4g rue, waited 15-20 minutes til I felt the warmth, then dropped a cap of 380mg crystal white DMT fumarate, kicked my ass super hard, i was going for that but it still was a little more than i bargained for. depending on your level of experience with DMT and ayahuasca and what you want from this trip, i would say probably dont exceed 250mg off the bat, 150mg would most likely be a nice mild start.

Took 500mg+ of freebase once, I survived but oh boy did I scare the living hell outta myself, good times.


could you tell us the duration please?

how long did it take to come on?
did it kreep?
how long lasted for?
come down slow?

sorry, but kush is very interested in this.

#4 Mr Kush

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 01:30 PM

oh sorry was wondering if this caused nausia as well?

#5 AndyLandy420

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 02:52 PM

most definitely caused nausea, I threw up feircely a few times when i dropped the 380mg, it varies alot how long it takes to come on, sometimes it will be all over you in 20 minutes sometimes it takes an hour for it to fully peak, seems to last real strong for an hour or 2, come down is not abrubt or slow, a few hours to baseline.
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#6 Shadowlord

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 03:50 PM

For someone who has only smoked DMT, and not all that frequently either, what is the major difference in the trip other than duration and so on?
Is it the DMT that causes the purging as well? I know that doing Aya using a jello tek and not using MHRB for the admixture is supposed to reduce or eliminate purging but Andy, you say your purged quite fiercly to use your description. Is this because of the large dose? do you purge at lighter doses?
Never had to throw up while tripping so I have no idea how much that would bother me :lol:. Puking I don't mind. Nausea sucks balls though!:puke:

#7 Paradox

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 06:34 AM

Would putting freebase in some lime juice be sufficient to convert to salt form ? Also would nausea be less than brewed MHRB using this method ?

#8 Shadowlord

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 01:58 PM

Would putting freebase in some lime juice be sufficient to convert to salt form ? Also would nausea be less than brewed MHRB using this method ?


I don't believe so. Maybe one of the others can tell for sure. One has to convert it to a Fumarate salt to insufflate but DMT freebase can be capped up and taken as long as an MAOI has been taken.
And as for brewing Aya, MHRB is far more likely to cause a purge. Even though a lot purge on Aya regardless. Brewing Aya is probably better done w/ Chaliponga or Charuna than Jurema ( MHRB ).
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#9 Mr Kush

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 03:19 PM

ah purging:puke:, lol what do you expect. guess kush will be sticking with true ayahuasca, definition of ayahuasca= "spirit vine" or "vine of the souls" hens b. caapi. caapi is the true power plant dmt is just the light.

kush was hoping he could find a way to have longer dmt experience, without :puke: that is.

edited to say: has anyone's foaf taken rue and smoked spice?

Edited by Mr Kush, 02 January 2010 - 03:21 PM.
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#10 Shadowlord

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 03:23 PM

ah purging:puke:, lol what do you expect. guess kush will be sticking with true ayahuasca, definition of ayahuasca= "spirit vine" or "vine of the souls" hens b. caapi. caapi is the true power plant dmt is just the light.

kush was hoping he could find a way to have longer dmt experience, without :puke: that is.


Well the best way to do that short of the full Aya would be to take some S. Rue tea or some Caapi tea if you wanted and smoke some DMT. You will get a longer deeper bang for your buck.
Other than that, prolly S. Rue and DMT Fumarate although at higher doses you may still purge as AndyLandy did but then he likes to go really deep so you may not have as strong a reaction.
Andy lives up to his signature. " Only those who risk going to far, find out just how far they can go "

#11 AndyLandy420

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 03:56 PM

For someone who has only smoked DMT, and not all that frequently either, what is the major difference in the trip other than duration and so on?
Is it the DMT that causes the purging as well? I know that doing Aya using a jello tek and not using MHRB for the admixture is supposed to reduce or eliminate purging but Andy, you say your purged quite fiercly to use your description. Is this because of the large dose? do you purge at lighter doses?
Never had to throw up while tripping so I have no idea how much that would bother me :lol:. Puking I don't mind. Nausea sucks balls though!:puke:


its really hard to describe the differences, I would day its more like ayahuasca but... It is somewhat similar smoking, maybe with a slightly more grounded/in your body feel as opposed to floating away into your mind, but thats just me and thats not to say its not brutally strong. I find eating pure DMT to be one of the most in your face dmt experiences, for me its typically more beat you down, scare you, overwhelm you, rush you, as opposed to say euphoria and smooth tripping. I dont eat pure dmt unless im in the mood so to speak for a possibly rough ride. Thats not to say I dont like it alot, I love it, but it has a quicker comeup, rougher ride (sometimes), shorter duration than true aya. I would say its more similar to smoking dmt than drinking ayahuasca, jus surrender right off the bat, make no mistakes about whos in charge, enjoy the ride, remember the lessons.

As far as purging goes, I am not bothered by purging and find it to be a rejuvinating thing. Prettymuch any form of oral dmt makes purge, whether it be a huge cap of DMT fumarate, MHRB tea, chacruna tea, dilute or concentrate, I always seems to purge like wild before I trip hard. I usually feel EFFing wonderfull after I purge and settle into a into a nice raging trip with a calm empty stomach.

mescaline of any kind will usually make me purge also, pure mesc HCl, full spectrum HCl, alcohol tar, cactus tea, strait cactus booger soup. A hefty dose of anything mesc related will usually upset me to the point where i want to throw up and choose to do so after i feel like ive absorbed all the goods. mesc for me is a little harder to shake the upset stomach, even after letting fly several times, just goes with the territory I guess.

Im a pretty big fan of smoking harmine freebase, a few big puffs or til I feel it clearly, then smoke dmt, definitely chenges it for me in a big way, longer lasting, easier to rememeber.

#12 Shadowlord

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 04:32 PM

Thanks for the good explanation Andy.
Like most things it appears to affect people differently. I've heard a lot of people having stomach issues w/ Mescaline and others that don't and the same w/ Oral DMT or brewed Aya.
I will almost certainly be smoking it and then smoking it after taking an Maoi before I attempt and Wazzlehuasca/Pharmahuasca or brewing any true Aya.
It's just so strange how things affect people differently. I like Mescaline and have had no stomach issues w/ tea, tar or HCl and it doesn't blow me away like it does some. It is usually a nice calm and enjoyable trip. Others find it really strong and have stomach issues. Some love DMT and smoke it w/ abandon. Others are like me and like it but find it scary or hard to want to do it. For me it is really strange as I have never even seen or felt anything all that scary and for the most part it has been enjoyable but at the same time I am rarely in the mood to try it and my heart pounds before every try. I always have to take a few deep breaths to calm myself and slow my racing heart before I can take a toke.

So many varied reactions to these magical substances.
Thanks again Andy. Rep I.O.U. :lol:

#13 Mr Kush

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 05:08 PM

thanks andy for explaining.
think kush is going to try smoking after consuming some rue:rasta:.

kush is far more experienced with mescalito then he is with oral dmt, he also pukes everytime no matter what spectrum.
he would have to say that he agrees that purging is a good thing, as if your breaking yourself down and rebuilding yourself, tis a beutiful thing.
blessing to all the fellow journeymen:heart:.

#14 Paradox

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 08:45 PM

yes kush i agree that smoking after a maoi sounds like a good idea. I also agree that the purge is a good thing and do indeed feel brand new and clean afterwards.

However that experience seems confined to a vine and viridis brew for me. After 3g of rue and 9g purple pink nothing happened for 2 hours and i had mostly given up on it and being hungry from fasting ate some fries. Then it really kicked hard in the space of twenty minutes it was like being attacked by a wild psychedelic animal and tore to shreds. This was very different from the warm friendly embrace of vine and viridis.

The difference in experience is not what bothers me. Its because the nausea was completely different too. I felt incredibly dry inside and could not bring anything up at all. If I knew for sure that this was due to me not filtering the root bark powder out of the brew i would like to try it again. Either vine and freebase or vine and MHRB.

Could it be these particles that caused the more severe nausea ? Viridis brews have them too and arent supposed to be too heavily filtered and i have no problem with them. Saying that though viridis brews have chlorophyl which has a strong cleansing power which i guess root bark brews dont. Thoughts anyone ?

#15 Shadowlord

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 09:20 PM

MHRB is supposed to be the one that is guaranteed to bring a purge although it is common with the other two ( chacruna and chaliponga ) as well. Hips Aya Jello tek is purported to remove most if not all of the tannins that cause the majority of the nausea/discomfort.
Having only smoked DMT I can not say from experience, but when the time comes it looks like it will be the Jello Tek for me w/ a brew of Caapi and either chacruna or chaliponga. Leaning towards chaliponga. I'll save my MHRB for extracting. I'll probably try the Caapi and capped extracted DMT.
I think a lot of people use MHRB for their brews because it has less variation in content of DMT from one sample to another whereas w/ the leafy stuff there can be wild swings in potency.

#16 lysergic

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 02:09 AM

There's no rue or pharms available on hand, but there is St. John's Wort readily available. Anyone with experience using St. John's Wort as a molecular watch dog protecting all those precious, fragile single-nitrogen-containing amines from that pesky endogenous oxidase? SWIF would like to blast-off asap, so any suggestions for quick access to any natural (or unnatural!) MAOI's would be greatly appreciated.


I'm pretty sure St John's Wort is more of an SSRI than an MAOI.
Wouldn't work quite the same.

Like Andy says,
I would just try to order some rue... :weedpoke:
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#17 AndyLandy420

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:15 AM

This may just be me but I think there is something to be said about dosing pure DMT after smoking pure harmine freebase as opposed to drinking an MAOI like rue. I personally have a MUCH stronger reaction to the former. Being on oral MAOI and smoking dmt tends to be be pretty subtle (for me)compared to smoking pure fb harmine before hand then smoking DMT 5 minutes later, at first its like your tolerant to the dmt and its not working, i smoke more than usual with apparently less effect, somewhere along the line it catches up to you... OOOOHHHHHHHH FFFUUUUUUUCCKKKKKKKKKIIINNNN WWWOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!
*bong topples over*
*falls helplessly backwards onto a bed*
*smiles and gasps*
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#18 Mr Kush

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 07:11 PM

This may just be me but I think there is something to be said about dosing pure DMT after smoking pure harmine freebase as opposed to drinking an MAOI like rue. I personally have a MUCH stronger reaction to the former. Being on oral MAOI and smoking dmt tends to be be pretty subtle (for me)compared to smoking pure fb harmine before hand then smoking DMT 5 minutes later, at first its like your tolerant to the dmt and its not working, i smoke more than usual with apparently less effect, somewhere along the line it catches up to you... OOOOHHHHHHHH FFFUUUUUUUCCKKKKKKKKKIIINNNN WWWOOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!
*bong topples over*
*falls helplessly backwards onto a bed*
*smiles and gasps*



oh shit, you saying it takes longer to come on when you smoke harmine freebase before hand?
how many mg of harmine fb do you need to smoke before hand?

Edited by Mr Kush, 04 January 2010 - 07:20 PM.
oops


#19 Calaquendi

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 08:40 PM

Hey Frequency man! Just don't ever take 300mg of freebase DMT at once like this... uh, dude I know did :lol: Very scary...

Bon Voyage bro!
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#20 AndyLandy420

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 09:52 PM

oh shit, you saying it takes longer to come on when you smoke harmine freebase before hand?
how many mg of harmine fb do you need to smoke before hand?



well the harmine comes on much quicker than oral rue, but D for me tends to come on slower than normal with fb harmine.

In terms of mg I have no idea, i never weighed it and it doesnt tend to vape very cleanly so you cant see how much is left. I tend to just gently heat it and take maybe 4-6 small hits, you can feel it damn near instantly so you'll know when you've had enough.




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