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DMT Fumarate and MAOI


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#21 Chaos

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 10:33 PM

WoW! Those doses seem high. I have been "preparing" for just this trip so I can't say with experience . Check out this thread @ the nexus.
http://www.dmt-nexus...?g=posts&t=1363
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#22 Frequency

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 11:57 PM

Thanks to everyone for making this such an informational thread!

Passiflora incarnata L. (Purple Passionflower) and Hypericum perforatum (St. John's Wort) have purported uses in certain literature as potential monoamine oxidase enzyme inhibitors. Unfortunately, 2oz of St. John's Wort and 1oz of passionflower were simply not effective for 4 people. A tea was made with 3 acidic hot water extractions on the plant material. The pulls were combined and reduced to a practical amount (1/2 cup each) and the DMT fumarate was consumed (100mg each) 20 minutes after the tea was ingested on empty stomachs. A calming, lucid placidity was enjoyed by all experimenters. 3 of the users were experienced in smoking freebase DMT and 1 user was inexperienced with DMT entirely. No psychedelic effects were noticed, unless you call the warm environment in conversation that we created in banter while awaiting any potential effects. The tea was definitely unfavorable in taste, but compared to cactus tea or pure phenethylamine salts, it was tolerable. The calming effects of the tea were noticed and enjoyable, but we're just not sure we drank enough.

Either we didn't use enough botanicals or the fumarate wasn't dosed high enough, or both. Or the chosen botanicals truly are not practical for use as an MAOI. Gave it the ol' college try though and now we at least have some kind of reference point for those attempting to use common herbs as psychoactives. Thanks again to everyone who participated and the love was definitely felt new year's eve as the experiment took place. It was a great night nonetheless.

Namaste

#23 AndyLandy420

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 12:50 AM

100mg dmt would have definitely alerted 1 in 4 four if not all 4 to something had proper MAOI been used.

Tellin you dude, rue is cheap, potent, so consistent its rediculous (NEVER had dud rue) and available everywhere. I have never tried the passion/wort so I cant say for sure but it would seem like a roll of the dice to say the least when compared to a sure thing like rue.

and the ammounts, seems excessive for something thats purported to potentially work, 1/2oz rue WILL work for 4 people, brew up 5g per person to be damn sure, then start with half.:rasta:

#24 Calaquendi

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 12:55 AM

Or the chosen botanicals truly are not practical for use as an MAOI.


Be my guess friend

#25 Paradox

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:55 PM

I read somewhere that passion flower is used as an ayahuasca analogue by the revived cult of jurema i think ? Also SWIM smoked a lot of it after a large quantity of shrooms a long time ago and subjectively entered a formless realm and spoke with beings there. Im leaning towards passion flower being effective as a maoi although definitely not as potent as rue. Just my 2 cents

#26 bbd2

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:46 PM

oh shit, you saying it takes longer to come on when you smoke harmine freebase before hand?
how many mg of harmine fb do you need to smoke before hand?


30 mg of freebase rue extract is what my dude smokes to prime his dmt smoking sessions

you can smoke it by itself
or mixed with some spice

#27 Mr Kush

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:23 PM

30 mg of freebase rue extract is what my dude smokes to prime his dmt smoking sessions

you can smoke it by itself
or mixed with some spice



sweet:rasta:,
do we have a tek here for extraction of harmine from rue seeds? or is it better (cheaper) to just buy the harmine fb online?

#28 bbd2

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 08:04 PM

here is how some members did it, there are other ways
the product is mix of harmine and harmaline and what ever other crud makes it thru (no need to skimp on the cleaning steps if you do a nice size batch)

http://mycotopia.net...ing-manske.html

#29 Chaos

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 05:50 PM

I hate to keep harping on a site other than topia, but there is a whole section on each of these subjects @ the DMT nexus.
Topia is and will always be my home! But some times you have to use other resources to further your research.
Chaos
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#30 Shadowlord

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:58 PM

I hate to keep harping on a site other than topia, but there is a whole section on each of these subjects @ the DMT nexus.
Topia is and will always be my home! But some times you have to use other resources to further your research.
Chaos


I agree and the DMT Nexus is a fine place and other subjects are better left to other sites.
But for the most part, everything I have found elsewhere is usually already here or in the archives here.
Check the archives here first before looking elsewhere.
I've found Mycotopia to be a one stop shop when it comes to anything natural and not chem synth related.

#31 Chaos

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:21 PM

I agree and the DMT Nexus is a fine place and other subjects are better left to other sites.
But for the most part, everything I have found elsewhere is usually already here or in the archives here.
Check the archives here first before looking elsewhere.
I've found Mycotopia to be a one stop shop when it comes to anything natural and not chem synth related.


I agree!

#32 Phlux-

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:00 PM

here is my separation guide -

http://mycotopia.net...athine-tek.html
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#33 AndyLandy420

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:53 PM

phlux is the only person that comes to mind when I think MAOI isolation/purification.

#34 Frequency

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 11:02 PM

phlux is the only person that comes to mind when I think MAOI isolation/purification.


I second that notion! Thanks for stopping by Phlux!

I've recently come across some new information regarding this very topic in a recent Ask Erowid entry.

The question asked was... "I have read that St. John's wort is a natural MAO inhibitor, although Erowid does not identify it as such. Is this herb a genuine MAOI?"

The answer:

Although early analysis indicated that St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum) is a MAOI, more recent research has shown this action to be extremely weak, and the herb's antidepressant effects can not be attributed to MAO inhibition. There have been no reported "adverse MAOI effects" from the combination of St. John's Wort with any of the foods or drugs commonly contraindicated when taking a MAOI. However, several chemicals found in St. John's Wort are known to activate five cytochrome P450 enzymes, and the body uses cytochrome P450 enzymes to break down most pharmaceuticals. There is strong evidence that it decreases drug levels in the blood with a number of medications, reducing their effectiveness, among other possible interactions.

St. John's Wort's method of action on mood is still a mystery. It has been shown to increase serotonin levels, but this may be accomplished via a means that is more comparable to tricyclic antidepressants than to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. In any case, several herbal medical texts recommend that people avoid taking St. John's Wort in conjunction with an SSRI, due to concerns about causing serotonin syndrome. For this reason, it seems prudent to also avoid, or be extremely careful when taking, recreational drugs that strongly boost serotonin--such as MDMA, MDA, etc.--while taking St. John's Wort. Thanks for bringing up this important question!


Hypericum perforatum (St. John's Wort) is not an effective MAOI.

That settles that debate yeah? Awesome to know based on multiple references! :amazed: :rasta:

Suzuki, O. et al. "Inhibition of Monoamine Oxidase by Hypericin". Planta Medica 1984;50:272. PMID-6484033

Bladt S & H Wagner. "Inhibition of MAO by Fractions and Constituents of Hypericum Extract", Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry and Neurology 1994;7(1):S57-S59. PMID-7857511

Izzo AA. Drug interactions with St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum): a review of the clinical evidence. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Mar;42(3):139-48. PMID-15049433

Wang Z, et al. "The effects of St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) on human cytochrome P450 activity". Clin Pharmacol Ther 2001;70(4):317-26. PMID-11673747


:meditate:
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#35 lysergic

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:31 AM

I second that notion! Thanks for stopping by Phlux!

I've recently come across some new information regarding this very topic in a recent Ask Erowid entry.

The question asked was... "I have read that St. John's wort is a natural MAO inhibitor, although Erowid does not identify it as such. Is this herb a genuine MAOI?"

The answer:



Hypericum perforatum (St. John's Wort) is not an effective MAOI.

That settles that debate yeah? Awesome to know based on multiple references! :amazed: :rasta:

Suzuki, O. et al. "Inhibition of Monoamine Oxidase by Hypericin". Planta Medica 1984;50:272. PMID-6484033

Bladt S & H Wagner. "Inhibition of MAO by Fractions and Constituents of Hypericum Extract", Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry and Neurology 1994;7(1):S57-S59. PMID-7857511

Izzo AA. Drug interactions with St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum): a review of the clinical evidence. Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Mar;42(3):139-48. PMID-15049433

Wang Z, et al. "The effects of St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) on human cytochrome P450 activity". Clin Pharmacol Ther 2001;70(4):317-26. PMID-11673747


:meditate:


:bow:

Thanks for that man :)

I'd rep ya if I could :rasta:




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