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Future of communication


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#1 soma

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 01:09 AM

I consider language to be a necessary evil. Language is an insidious tool that tends to create boundaries and promote lies and propaganda. I've always noticed that I would always have trouble expressing ideas that dealt with very incorporeal subject matter, usually of philosophical nature. Also, I've noticed that the ideas in my head could never really stand up to the expression of those ideas in words. I've gradually become better by trying to read alot of books and develop my language skills that I've often thought were lacking, but the problem remains. Language is limiting and inadequate.

I've always fantasized about being able to somehow 'transfer' ideas or state of mind to another person as a method of communication. With my use of psychedelics, I've become more and more convinced that theoretically, the best mode of communication is through 'pictures' of some sort that embody the content of my thoughts. It seems we live in a visual world and visual communication, I believe, can be a more 'true' form of communication. Well, you may ask, can't the visual messages also contain lies delibrately inserted by the person? I tend to imagine that the creation of these visual messages to be somehow intrically linked to the thought processes involved in its creation. So the intent of the lie would also be connected with the message and cannot be extracted out.

Basically, I imagine visual communication to be able to bypass the 'guessing game' invovled with the use of symbols/words and deliver one's thoughts directly to another through some sort of visual transmitters.

How can this be done? I have no clue. I'm not even sure I know what I'm talking about sometimes. Posted Image

I've never really thought about these ideas alot before I heard one of terrence mckenna's lectures where he talked about such ideas that stemmed from his DMT trip. He talked about how the 'elves' were throwing him coloured objects as some sort of language, a form of communication. Then I thought maybe there's actually something to this idea.

Any thoughts?

#2 Guest_phoenix_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 02:49 AM

If there is one thing in life i know for sure is that if one man can dream it, then it can be done. All it takes is heart, dedication, and sacrafice. May all your dreams come true.

#3 Guest_redmonk_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 05:21 AM

Terence McKenna had some theories right along those lines . He thought that the future evolution of language involved language that came out of us as a 3-dimensional object that could be viewed by all and understood more accurately and deeply than conventional speech .

#4 Guest_sin_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 06:13 AM

It would be neat. I think " Thought " is fleeting and uncontainable. If you had a 3D Holographic image of your thought, it's interpretation is still subject to the Viewers Filters.
Spoken Language makes it damn near impossible to describe objects in detail that Sight can.
I'm think along these lines:
It would need be more like Radio or Video that would be overlaid upon recipients thoughts. It wouldn't be Audible or Visual it would be your thoughts transmitted to me, over laid on my thoughts. But still have my filters to look out for, still could misinterpret your thought.

The major trouble is we think with words, and visuals. Drawing, Writting, Acting, Singing, All Art is striving to do just what your talking about. Low Tech but thats the state of the art today.
There is a Guy in England, who claims he can put his entire Memory on a Chip and it could be downloaded and someone else could access this Memory any time.
Think the procedure kills you so it hasn't been tried yet.

It could be what your talking about is more akin to FEELING, kind of Like on a lite Shoorm trip, I often wish someone could SHARE Exactly what I am experiencing. Words can't explain it to them, you can't take photos, then when you think about it, it was all a FEELING anyway not something that can be explained in detail. Even when your down off the trip you can't recall all of it but the FEELING sticks around a bit after.

#5 Guest_dasein_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 12:40 PM

your right sin ful dreams, what I really would like is the transfer of the feeling, because it's all that's left in the end, the core of Experience. But when I start thinking in terms of 'feelings' I kinda reach an end point and must entertain the idea of some sort of egoless state of collective organization where communication is no longer a factor in daily experience. A kind of end, or a beginning, of some radical stage of consciousness evolution.

But then again, maybe this overlaying of thoughts your talking about can be facilitated through duplicating exactly the proccesses of neurotramitters from one to the other by some kind of catalyst. By-pass any filters because it would be an exchange of the biochemical processes that leads to thought instead of the thought itself. If this were possible, it would seem to bring about a further degradation of 'identity' and 'ego' and a whole lot of other such issues. If my brain mimicks the way your brain works, am I in part you?

Visual communication I imagine to be more closely related to the true thought, but yes, still subject to misinterpretation. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we all read through visualization in our minds in connection to past experiences. (For example, when we see the word "plant", the word is empty by itself and one must refer back to past experiences where one smelled a flower, tended for a rose, etc. A process of visual remembrance) So it seems very beneficial to do away with the step of the use of words and just tap into the visual aspects directly.

Edit:

"May all your dreams come true."
And may yours too. Posted Image

(Message edited by mikrotaster on November 06, 2003)

(Message edited by mikrotaster on November 06, 2003)

#6 pskovinsky

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 03:38 PM

i suspect that this will happen from two angles... one will be the shamanic angle, via mushrooms or acid or some plant leaf we have yet to (re)discover, and the other will be a matrix style plug in the back of our heads.
The plug will be easy and simple, and cost tons of money so it will be a rich mans toy.
The leaf will be a long hard road, with many side paths and dead ends, but will eventually lead to the same kind of thought sharing.

I suspect that a large number of annoying bad people with the plug and a much smaller number of good people that have made it to the end of the leaf road. There will be battles, the leaf will be illegal(naturally) and have to go underground. Which is probably where it really belongs, as anything that is open to the masses naturally draws dumbasses that destroy it's usefullness and turn a visionary plant into a party drug.


That was a fairly pointless ramble, but hey, there ya go.


For my part i would greatly prefer the shamanistic route, as the matrix style is far to easy, i don't think people should just be throwing what they really think out into the world without some kind of understanding of what they are doing/saying, which most people these days really don't have. Hence the massive numbers of drug laws "required" to keep people from hurting themselves. (side note, i think that if you want to screw yourself up you should be able to, thats a human right. Screwing somebody else up however is a bad thing, and should be illegal)

The closest i've gotten to expressing myself without words is with music (which i'm quite lousy at, but enjoy anyway).


Actually no, thats not true, the closest i've gotten was the very first time my now girlfriend (she wasn't then) and I did shrooms together, it was her very first time and my third i think, we split an eigth (60% for me, as i have a harder head) and wandered around my "town" (more of a rustic village then anything) The entire time we were seeing and feeling the exact same thing, it was quite the experiance. It never happened before, and it hasn't happened since, but that one time was truely amazing.

This concludes my semi-on topic ramblings

#7 Guest_jinzo_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 04:23 PM

The end state of communication is a final accumulation of emotions. Just like varying degrees of psychoactive constituent culminating to a final "unique" combination resulting in and overall oneness. Same as emotion, I believe that all emotions have yet to be described. But the old analogy of "How would you describe the color orange to some one who has never seen it?" comes into play.

I love sci-fi and I guess a Vulcan mind-melt would be along the lines of communications that would be *near* accurate. A base protocol and reset of filters must be enacted which could be accomplished via computers. It would dictate emotions correctly or at least say "Your idea of happiness falls into category X" and be able to adjust from there. But the problem again lies in identifying all emotional states which I think would be in the thousands. I mean I have a whole different state of mind at night then I do during the day. When I am driving home through the canyons at sunset I smell the Chaparral releasing their bouquet which is fleeting and only lasts about an hour or so then it's gone. That emotion to me can only be described as magic, which scientifically is very lacking in description yet I feel it but cant explain it. As language represents a hard set of rules then emotion must be brought into that light which would be extremely difficult. So in essence base lines must be established then custom tailored to the individual. You could plug your brain into a computer then adjust the thresholds to match what it is you have developed over your whole life.




#8 Guest_deadly_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 06:21 PM

This really makes me want to take some shrooms right now... If only I had some and someone around right now to do them with!




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