30 replies to this topic

[aettis]

So I have just recieved one syringe of each:
Amazon,
Australian,
Ecuador,
Puerto Rican,
and Creeper.
I cannot make my mind up of what kind of casings I will be doing, but since I am doing a larger grow I figured I would try each type of casing I have read most about. Peat/verm, Straight Verm, and then spawn to bulk coir, then case with peat/verm and straight verm. The Buffer for the casing with peat/verm and coir/verm will all be buffered with Hydrated lime. Total of 6 trays per shelve, 5 total shelves in my fruiting chamber. I will be using 60 pint jars, and WBS as my initial substrate. The WBS will be steeped for 45 minutues (after being rinsed) and then PC'd with my new PC:
http://www.pressurec...let.com/921.htm
at 15 psi for 1 to 1.5 hours.
The jars will be prepared with a 1/4 inch hole in each lid, under the lid and metal band will be 3-4 tyvek layers, then over the lid and under the band, 2 coffee filters, and then over the entire lids, a piece of Aluminum foil...then it will be PC'd.
My chamber will be humidified by an ultrasonic cool mist humidifier (u only use distilled water in these, correct?) and ran by a
prewired humidistat (85% humidity perfectly!) I got at:
http://www.littlegre...ls2.shtml#humid
Hooked up for air exchange will be two hepa filters converted 5 gallon pails:
http://www.walmart.c...oduct_id=876302
The objective is that the air pulled into the hepa filter from outside, cleans it, then pumps it into my fruiting chamber via hoses/pvc. Each of these hepa/conversion will be run on two seperate intermatic digital timers with up to 14 on/off programs per day. I need two to operate one filter for 12 hours and the other for 12 hours.
http://www.homedepot...t.jsp?pn=163041
My chamber will be humidified by an ultrasonic cool mist humidifier (u only use distilled water in these, correct?)
The fruiting chamber itself is going to be wrapped in plastic window insulation, the type you tape over your windows and the use a hair dryer to heat up the plastic which then tightens up so it provides a good seal.
I will be using 2 vita-lite 4 foot fluorscent bulbs that are high in the blue spectrum set on a 5 dollar timer to come on for either a cycle of 12/12 or 8/16:
http://www.duro-test.com/VitaLite.html
The area the fruiting chamber sits on is now covered in plastic as well as the walls, for easy cleaning.
I have built a positive pressure box. I want to hook up one of my 5 gallon converted hepa filters to my glove box for the positive pressure part, but I have heard moving air is worse than still air...so with all this talk about positive pressure would this then be a bad thing?
Looking for a good ventilation mask to wear when prepping jars and casings (and tips?) and looking for a good spray bottle with the correct type of head for misting my casings...called rose or something? Sorry, not sure.
After the WBS colonizes I will let my jars incubate in my fruiting chamber without the humidity or air exchange on only because with the heat off in my apt. the heat from the lower two floors heats up my place to about 80 or so degrees, then with a couple lights on in my room it boosts the temps to about 82-84F.
And another step of clean air is I have an older hepa filter, small, but it has a built in ionizer, I will be running this off of a cheap 5 dollar timer to come on for two periods of 8 hours. This hepa filter will sit outside of my FC and clean the closet air that which will be sucked through my other two hepa filter/5 gallon pail conversions and then pumping that air into my FC.
Of course I have the lysol air spray and gloves and all...all that other small stuff.
Looking for input on this setup, curious as to how well it might work, thanks to all.
-Aettis

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[Stenciler]

I'm semi bumping this back up to the top. I'm in no way a master, but I'll try to answer some q's. I think it got poor response based on the very large block of print above. Perhaps with so many unkowns you should review some of the older threads/archives more.

I have built a positive pressure box... but I have heard moving air is worse than still air...so with all this talk about positive pressure would this then be a bad thing?

I've found the consensus is against posi-boxes. Even with a nice hepa hooked up you need a LOT of pressure coming out of the holes to be worthwhile:
http://mycotopia.net...html?1069776180
http://mycotopia.net...html?1069556827

the other prob is that though the hepa filters air well, it is not leakproof. Basic suction may well pull in contammed air through cracks around the filter, between the seals, etc. Still air, though slightly contammed won't blow that one spore (ha!) around and around in the box like a lottery ball waiting to land. I closed my holes and taped on gloves, just use plenty of bleach and H202 and you'll be fine.

Looking for a good ventilation mask to wear when prepping jars and casings (and tips?) and looking for a good spray bottle with the correct type of head for misting my casings...called rose or something? Sorry, not sure.

As far as vent-masks, I've used simple 99c dust masks. The idea is to keep your breath from contamming substrates and doing what we talked about above with moving air. Mister bottles? They're all pretty much the same, as long as it's capable of finely distributing water (uh, misting).

I will be using 60 pint jars, and WBS as my initial substrate. The WBS will be steeped for 45 minutues (after being rinsed) and then PC'd with my new PC:

21 quart? it'll hold 7 quart jars a run, not including any tools and such. At 1.5 hours a run heating and estimate 6 hours cooling that's 60jars/7jars to a run =8 1/2 runs X7.5hours = 64 hours 18 minutes, not including load/unload time. That's also a LOT of spawn. You might also do better innoculating with a lot of liquid culture, instead of spore syringes, just to speed up colonization.

I cannot make my mind up of what kind of casings I will be doing, but since I am doing a larger grow I figured I would try each type of casing I have read most about. Peat/verm, Straight Verm, and then spawn to bulk coir, then case with peat/verm and straight verm.

casings? you haven't even colonized your jars yet, much less the bulk tubs! some people don't even case their bulks, and they do fine. Do you mean substrate? Or is the sub bulk-coir?
check out vaults
http://mycotopia.net...splay.php?f=101
http://mycotopia.net...isplay.php?f=53

It sounds like this is a first time, or among the first times you've tried grain spawn. Don't get yourself in over your head, if you don't have sterilization down on the small scale, it prolly won't work for a run like this. I'm not telling you not to try! but I lost a lot of spawn hoping for bulk results, and would have reaped more if I had refined my skills on smaller projects. Good luck, yo!

[Hippie3]

be sure to post pix of your set up and progress.

[python]

god damn this dude wrote a post............

but anyways......maybe try spawning some of that wbs to a poo or poo/? mix


wbs is great for spawn material

[aettis]

Allright...I am taking some advice. Instead of 60 pint jars, I will only do 30=15 quarts. And I was thinking I would give myself a little more experience before trying to spawn to bulk coir and then case. I will just be sticking with the peat/verm and straight verm. And yes when Everything is tested and proven good, I will have pictures up. So still air is better than a positive pressure box...lots of lysol and bleach spray!! I might do a liquid culture...save some of those syringes a bit. Allright. Thank you Stenciler, I appreciate that little bump and your answers and Hippie3, great site!! Love this little community. Pictures, hopefully soon.

-Aettis

[BuckarooBanzai]

Damn, Stenciler, good answers! What he said...

Still air is king unless you want to spend $150+ on building a laminar hood (or $500+ buying one). If you haven't spent around $70 on the HEPA filter, you are just blowing contaminants around.

Stay away from the Lysol. Lysol is bad for you and your pets and is a crappy air sanitizer anyway. It is also known to cause mutation in mushrooms. Use bleach water for surfaces and OUST for the air. Throwing an ionizer into your still air box will help it perform better.

I would advise patience and starting out small until you get the kinks worked out. It's a lot easier to toss 5 jars than 50 if you discover a major fault in your process.

Don't fear the bulk! The bulk is your friend. It's damned near as easy (easier, IMHO) than straight cakes. You are planning to add some poo to that coir when you spawn, right?

[aettis]

Poo and coir I am thinking of saving for a different grow, just to get some more experience first. Yeah, I decided on 30 pint jars instead of 60. Would it be better to find some quart jars instead?

Ionizer...how much those cost?

Thanks again you guys.

-Aettis

[Hippie3]

quarts are great for larger projects, easy to find too.
check our sponsor FMRC for good price on ionizer

[python]

watch it with the lysol and with the bleach spray bro, you'll find that sterile procedure is much better........


1 more thing...........wbs is better for spawn......rye is better as a sub..........

so why not spawn the wbs to something other than verm.......or peat/ verm........to me these are casing layer materials.......now i know others have used them for bulk subs etc but i find better results using rye and casing it:) ......or by using rye or wbs and spawning to straw, straw/poo,
poo, straw/compost, compost, etc.........


gl looking forward to more

[aettis]

Sterile procedure? I am assuming this is set of steps to follow to ensure sterility, but I would still like to use oust (instead of lysol, now) for inside my glove box, and then diluted bleach water to spray down some plastic lining I have and such. Well I will be using the WBS as spawn. I heard coir contams quick and thought I'd be better off not raising my contam rate. I figured the peat/verm or just verm wouldn't contam as easily, as they are just soil additives and don't carry much nutrition for the myc. or other bacteria to want to feed off of. So you are saying possible WBS spawn to bulk rye(?) and then case with either the peat/verm or straight verm?

Damn, I love this site!

Thanks.

-Aettis

[python]

Sterile procedure would be the routine of cleanliness that you keep special for your hobby.......ie, always washing hands, showering before entering the grow area, and especially showering before entering after contam disposal, correct sterile procedure when doing procedures such as innoculations or transfers etc..........one more thing to note is that your breath is probably the worst thing for your projects

as far as oust/lysol, these disenfectants......IMO these things cause more harm than good......LYSOL IS NOT A CURE-ALL FOR THE LAZY.........it has been thought that they cause aborts or deformities, and if they hit the substrate with a large enough amount they could kill it........not to mention i hate breathing that shit in.....

ohh and there is no need or reason to clean a glovebox with lysol/etc......ill let ya find out the ill effects on your own......HINT: dont light the alcohol lamp in there, it will BLOW UP on ya........all you need is soap and water (the air isnt spore/germ/bacteria free why does it matter if the walls are lysoled?)

the purpose of a glovebox is to create a still air environment for procedures(innoculations, transfers etc) which improves sterility but is not fullproof

a flowhood is the next best thing and is very very effective and user freindly

[python]

Well I will be using the WBS as spawn. I heard coir contams quick and thought I'd be better off not raising my contam rate. I figured the peat/verm or just verm wouldn't contam as easily, as they are just soil additives and don't carry much nutrition for the myc. or other bacteria to want to feed off of.

i know from experience, but one would have to think that less nutes=less mushroom growth........dont be afraid to fail bro........

and the contams would simply feed off of the wbs or the mycelium so your not benefiting yourself any..........

i must however say that some people will tell you to do it your way and thats fine, and it may/may not work 4 ya, but i am just giving suggestions......ok

So you are saying possible WBS spawn to bulk rye(?) and then case with either the peat/verm or straight verm?
Damn, I love this site!
Thanks.
-Aettis

no, what i was saying is that WBS is equal/ very slightly better to use as spawn to a bulk substrate than rye grain as the seeds/grain in the wbs are a bit smaller creating more innoc points.........

by saying rye is better as substrate i mean; if we drop a wedge of agar into a jar of rye and another into a jar of WBS, then we pour those grains out into trays and case them (and fruit them like that), the rye will do better IMO/IME

GOT IT?

[python]

and ya, i would case with peat/verm

[Hippie3]

the difference between rye and wbs is tiny,
one just needs to use a bit more rye
to get an equal number of 'points' of growth
with wbs.
i personally find rye's ease of preparation easily offsets wbs' small particle size.

[python]

i love rye most and very very rarely use wbs.......


but if we went quart vs quart...........wbs will have more innoc points

but like hippie said, u could just use more rye........

i too prefer rye becuase of its favorable nute content, and continued stability and ease

[BuckarooBanzai]

My lord, man, that is beautiful work. You are a freakin' master with Plexiglas!

That HEPA is too small to be effective, however. It will allow a significant volume of contaminants to pass, both through the filter and around it's edges.

Also, you are mixing the concepts of a laminar flow station with a glove box. For laminar flow to work, you need holes in the box to allow air pressure out. If the box is sealed, no air pressure can enter (which would actually be better with that HEPA).

Killer box design, though. Really nice work. The access ports on either end are really beautiful. You combine that with a %99.99 .3 micron HEPA/blower and you'll have a real thing of beauty. Otherwise, just work in totally still air. It can be very effective.

[python]

id say nice design too but a glovebox is meant for still air operations......

some make posi-pressures like that but IMO you'll be better off with a simple design that keeps the air inside still......

[arezap]

Excellent job! Could you post a materials/parts list and estimated cash needed mycobsession? I like working with acrylic. What if you used tyvek sleeves instead of those nice gloges and just wear nitrile ones instead? I'll have to kick around a few ideas. How about attach the tyvek sleeves with industrial velcro. Then after each use you could toss them in a bag. After using up some sleeves you could take them out of the bag, wrap them in a towel, pc them for re-use. hmm...

[Hippie3]

shoulda left the ion emitters intact, imo.