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Do you consider yourself a shaman?


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#1 koldj

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 08:51 AM

Yes, no or maybe and why?

#2 Irishlion

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 09:17 AM

I personally I don't think there is such a thing as a "shaman" thats just a made up title. Another fancy name for a priest or charlitan or scam artist. Any one of us can be a guide we just have to learn how, and the best guides learn from experience not some spirtual mombojumbo thats been taught to them by someone else that learned it from someone else by word of mouth. Sorry but, thats just my view.
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#3 koldj

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 10:27 AM

Well, that's how I see it as well. More or less.
It's just that I consider a shaman anybody who follows his own intuition and experience on his spiritual path.
It is a made up term/title, but I for example consider Shakyamuni Buddha to be a shaman, if you know what I mean.
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#4 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 10:34 AM

I personally I don't think there is such a thing as a "shaman" thats just a made up title. Another fancy name for a priest or charlitan or scam artist. Any one of us can be a guide we just have to learn how, and the best guides learn from experience not some spirtual mombojumbo thats been taught to them by someone else that learned it from someone else by word of mouth. Sorry but, thats just my view.



Im going to have to go with Irish on this one.

I for one am completely fed up with the Messiah Complex. The only real learning, is that which you gain from first hand experience/realization...through your own exploration, inner listening,and disciplined efforts. You make the change...because no one can do it for you.

No leaders
No god damn shepards.
No Authoritative/"Comprehensive" books.
No Dogma
No generic manual

It's for each man and woman to cut the bullshit and simply do what they know to be right....in every moment. Once you grow a backbone, everything falls into place.

It's really that simple.

I agree with certain aspects of "shamanism", in so far as it advocates connection with the land/local environment, deeper listening, and a sense of reciprocity between all things. There are certainly some very valuable lessons to learn from the general tradition, but....

The whole dependency on someone else to give you answers really busts my balls.

Id rather live in a society of highly creative, free thinking men and women swimming strong in the currents of their own self knowledge, then be surrounded by sheeple drowning in a sea of dependency.


Be yourself.
Do what you know in your heart is right.

Fuck the programming/tradition.




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Edited by Teonanacatl38, 07 March 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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#5 curenado

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 10:51 AM

TEO Said "Be yourself.
Do what you know in your heart is right.
Fuck the programming/tradition."

That's exactly how I practice medicine!
How I sense people and respond as well as the diagnosing and treatment designs are what make me wonder ~ I may do it "By the numbers" but it seems that it really comes a lot from the abstract. If that in any way counts. "I see duh pashent" sometimes. Maybe not shamanistic as much as rain man tendencies though....




#6 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 10:53 AM

Clearly, there is a very real category or type of persona rising in our population that lacks a name but it's definitely time we found one.

"Shaman" has become way too loaded of a term, and so you never know what someone else's associations with the word might be when using it so it can cause a lot of misinterpretation.

That said, elders are invaluable for guidance along our Path. We definitely need help in the beginning if no other time just to save us the trouble of re-inventing the wheel or making horrible mistakes others have already made. If we all start at the same beginning, we won't get very far since everyone can only progress as far as a single lifetime's experience. If we have conscious, enlightened, and non-dogmatic elders to help get us started then we can progress as many human lifetime's worth of experience as there are elders in our lineage; we can begin our Journey at the place where those before us stopped, like walking on stepping stones. Ultimately, if we push things just a little farther than those who came before us then eventually we take our place as a stepping stone for the next generation.

But it won't exist as a widespread phenomenon in society (and encourage the expansion of awareness and consciousness required to turn things around in this demented world and save our asses) until we can name it. Trouble is, the forces of darkness and ignorance and fear know this too so they co-opt or degrade every potentially useful term that emerges. "Shaman" is a perfect example, as is "new age" (some is brilliant, some is absolute crap) or the now-meaningless codified definition of "organic."

From my time in whitewater, my friends and I just started calling people like this "Trip Leaders." I was a TL for years on whitewater, and I trained others who became TL's. So, finding a good TL helps as long as the ultimate goal is to become a TL oneself as the ideal situation would be if everyone was their own Trip Leader in every sense of the word. That said, I do acknowledge that some folks just ain't destined to be a TL, but we can do the best we can.

To answer the poll, I'd say "All Of The Above" if it were an option. :D
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#7 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:13 AM

Definitely TV
If you want to fuck up a good thing.....make it plastic, print up stickers, make it trendy...a commodity

I don't feel that creating a name for the new wave would be beneficial though. There's definitely wisdom in leaving the ineffable to be just that. Doing so also assures that you wont find bumper stickers advertising it like some brand jeans logo :mistrust:

I feel that the best way to create the change, is to hold your own alignment in every moment. Let people follow that Posted Image

Edited by Teonanacatl38, 07 March 2010 - 11:19 AM.

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#8 Irishlion

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:17 AM

I have a name for it, its called education of yourself LOL no serously one word comes to mind "traveler"
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#9 koldj

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:33 AM

I have a name for it, its called education of yourself LOL no serously one word comes to mind "traveler"

How about psychonaut? ;)

Definitely TV
If you want to fuck up a good thing.....make it plastic, print up stickers, make it trendy...a commodity

I don't feel that creating a name for the new wave would be beneficial though. There's definitely wisdom in leaving the ineffable to be just that. Doing so also assures that you wont find bumper stickers advertising it like some brand jeans logo :mistrust:

Well, first of all I made this poll here on Topia, not on some kind of "pay me for my shiny voodoo-new-age shit" forum :D. By that I mean that people here are bright enough to understand and respect shamanism as it is without making commercialized hype out of it.

The reason I'm asking this question is because I see that great majority of people here use mushrooms as their spiritual tool. Many of us started believing in something after experiencing psychedelics. And this primal form of spirituality is shamanism.

Edited by koldj, 07 March 2010 - 11:41 AM.

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#10 Irishlion

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:49 AM

How about psychonaut? ;).


Sure, how about psychonaut travler?


The reason I'm asking this question is because I see that great majority of people here use mushrooms as their spiritual tool. Many of us started believing in something after experiencing psychedelics. And this primal form of spirituality is shamanism.



Personally I feel ya but, I don't call it shamanism, I prefer to classify it as internal growth. Using psychedelics to enhance my own growth and work on me, to me this is the path of spiruality. I have used them to over come a great many internal issues of my own. Did I dive deep, you better believe it son, go big or go home is my motto, if you gonna learn then take yourself to school, no other way to do it, yes yes yes always test the water first to get a feel for it but, shit after that might as well see how deep that puddle goes.

So in closing the term shamanism to me is overrated, if I were to be called anything it would have to be "a seeker", a seeker of enlightment, of knowledge, and above all my true self. This to me would be what you call shamanism, Seeking.
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#11 koldj

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 12:00 PM

Sure, how about psychonaut travler?

Actually psychonaut translates to "soul/mind sailor".

#12 Oroborous

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 12:07 PM

I am myself. Nothing more. Nothing less.

#13 space-cosmonaut

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 12:33 PM

I put "maybe". Traditionally i have always seen a shaman as living among a group of people or outside a group of people. These said people then visit the shaman for healing, spiritual guidance through etheogens and such. In the past i have believed these shaman could only be considered shaman if they live among an indigenous tribe or such. I dont believe this is the case. In my opinion a shaman is any person with true intent to want to explore through the use of plants and healing and help individuals find there path in life. This could be done in an urban setting as well and not just the jungle.

But as for me i dont label myself as shaman. I honestly am a cosmonaut in trying to find what is out there through use of psychedelics. I do also try to use my knowledge to help people that wish to gain more insight into the bardo or shroomland. But again i put maybe. P.S a shaman in my opinion should never take money from there students who wish to gain insight. Sharing is caring and it will bring good karma.
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#14 Mr Kush

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 02:45 PM

As far as considering my self a "shamen" I would have to say no,
more so I dont like to give myself any title.
Imo one has no farther to look then inside themselves for answers,
and Imo are the only answers that truely matter to ones self....

However I have to give credit to some of the majestic wise men of the amazon....however it be that you title them.
For there is some that have stepped out of self discovey "par say" and have devoted their life as a healer/helper of others...
These ones that I have met can truely tap into my inner space and influence where my conscious goes....thus they have taken me further then what I was able to do my self (well used to :) ). For those who have tooken ayahuasca with a wise one you might have had a variation of what I am talking about... such as that they can truely sing the icaros and do what ever it is and guide you into the light.... lol it was just a couple nights ago when I was arguing (kindly) with a friend who is obsessed with going down to brazill to do ayahuasca ceremonies with said "shamens", they were giving me shit about doing ayahuasca alone and not having the "shamen" to guide me into the light, well once again I have utmost respect for these "people" that can do such, but quite frankly I personally love making the relationship with the plants myself....how is one ever sapose to learn how to navigate if they never learn how to taime the beasts (:lol:) themselves and always have someone hold their hand while they cross the street?

I like going to elder counsel meeting that are carried out by elder tribes as they have halp me grow alot.... never once have they tried to fabricate life, just basically teach the ways in which they have learned to "take care" of mother earth....so we can all keep spinning.

Even in the books that you read about shamanism (which I dont reccomend lol) it speaks so much about transformation and self discovery, so how can one put a title to one that is constantly progressing? to title something your tying it down trying to fabricate just what it is... in doing this your putting that progressive concioussness to a stop....

Imagination is more powerful then knowledge...

Be yourself.
Do what you know in your heart is right.

Fuck the programming/tradition.


:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
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#15 tenjin

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 04:55 PM

I voted no..don't really want to be a shaman either, not much of a trip leader anyway.
Some of the elder leaders of prairie band tribes I've met at pow wows I would consider somewhat like shamans, although they aren't really shamans per se. Very old indians that have a beautiful tradition that has been passed down from their elders elders and have all the intricate song, dance, smoking, drumming, eating and storytelling to share with others in their ritual. They keep a piece of peyote on them at all times for protection too. My uncle used to keep some in his wallet and swear thats what saved his life in a car wreck lol. Lucky guy gets gaming revenues from the casino too. But for most people in this technological age or outside of a native tribe, we tend to have a cynical or pessimistic outlook on shamanism because as a whole its true we have somewhat grown out of that and don't really need them anymore to have access to the divine.

Edited by tenjin, 07 March 2010 - 05:00 PM.

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#16 Temporalysis

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:26 PM

I vote no. Actually one of the reasons why I registered here is to share my experiences with an actual shaman.

First and foremost I want to say as bluntly as possible: nobody here is a shaman and nobody they know is a shaman either. I accept the 0.00001% possibility of my being wrong in this matter.

If you ever want to seek out a shaman to use their help or guidance through a trip, I guarantee you that your actual chances of meeting one within your short life is slim to none. THEY are the seekers... not us, and like other races of people (he said he belongs to a long lost race of Seers), they move with the times. This Shaman does not use drugs, nor does he condone anyone using any sort of drug, although he did mention that it used to be "the way of things". Afterward he laughed heartily and said he does not need such "outdated methods".

I first met this Shaman (my meaning of the word being "spiritual leader") before ever even hearing this word before in my life. I was in an extremely spiritually stagnant state.. I had spent the majority of my life questioning everything around me. Why are we here? What is the purpose of this place? Where do we come from? What IS sentience, exactly?

I was a Physics major working on my bachelors degree.. but my passion for working with what physical cosmos we could comprehend was gradually giving way for something.. less. He found me in this state.

His name is irrelevant... in fact, I don't think he ever told me what it was anyway. He had what seemed to be otherworldly spiritual prowess... I have no idea how else to describe it. With a simple hearty laugh, he could give you an adrenaline rush.. a simple word and you wouldn't be able to stop the tears from streaming down your face. When he sings his ancient song, and its definitely what you'd think "ancient" sounds like, he can give you this sense of increased awareness and silence. Prior to meeting this Shaman I had never experienced anything like this sensation before. I would be overwhelmed in fear and doubt.. and then seconds later, in total bliss! All of this was somehow accomplished only with the power of his voice (he told me later to always remember that everything evolves by sound). No drugs or other outside influences of any kind were required.

He did speak a few words about other "shamans" even though I never asked. He said something like "the world is a shaman factory these days".. and he went on to say (after I inquired) that he presently knew of nobody else like him. Later I went on to learn that what he really meant was that a true Seer never remains transfixed or frozen in any one reality.. they never remain Paralyzed in Time.



Months and months passed after that (the most mind blowing experience of my life by far) before I ran into some literature that sort of comes close to describing what I went through when I met the Shaman. It is a book called "Way of the Peaceful Warrior".. I forget the author. A google search may do the trick... one of the main characters (the Shaman) is nicknamed Socrates, because that person wouldn't give his name either. It isn't a fictitious book. It is about a young adult in college who ran into what I would personally describe as a true Shaman. It is an average read as far as intellectual stimulation goes, but when I read it it helped solidify the fact that I wasn't going completely insane, despite having every bit of my so-called defined reality shattered into a million tiny little pieces. Everything that I thought was impossible before is no longer even conceivable as legitimate... it's so hard to explain.

And you know what the best part is? Ever since I met this man (it was a single 2-hour long conversation... nothing more), I have had the happiest, most fully aware state of being inside of me. He successfully turned my gaze inwards and reawakened my creativity (apparently I have musical talent now). And my dreams... I remember every single one of them.. and I frequently go lucid without the help of anything.

Sometimes I wonder if he's still guiding me while I sleep...


What do you guys make of this..?

Edited by Temporalysis, 13 March 2010 - 09:35 PM.

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#17 Temporalysis

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:47 PM

There's another thing. He seemed to know everything about me.. things that only the freakin' CIA could possibly know. Things that only a telepathic would know, it seemed to me at the time.

When I asked all those "how" questions.. he merely shrugged and said, "you're like me, friend." And then came the first blast of the most powerful humorous ether or energy or something that I had ever felt.. making me cry and laugh and nearly vomit all at the same time.

On hindsight I think his intention was to overload my senses somehow.. to show me that what I was experiencing really was possible.. and that it is all within us..
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#18 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 10:27 PM

First and foremost I want to say as bluntly as possible: nobody here is a shaman and nobody they know is a shaman either. I accept the 0.00001% possibility of my being wrong in this matter.



:lol:
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#19 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 10:51 PM

I agree with you Irish, Teo, the term is kind of a turn off due to hype, etc. but-

Did I dive deep, you better believe it son, go big or go home is my motto, if you gonna learn then take yourself to school, no other way to do it, yes yes yes always test the water first to get a feel for it but, shit after that might as well see how deep that puddle goes.



Dont you think that this is what the people we have historically called shamans have been doing since humans first munched fungi growing off the dung of grazers or whatever?

the term shamanism to me is overrated, if I were to be called anything it would have to be "a seeker", a seeker of enlightment, of knowledge, and above all my true self. This to me would be what you call shamanism, Seeking.


I agree with you, but don't think that it matters what we call it. TV is right, we will all teach the right people just like we were taught. The knowledge will get into the right hands. I feel that this is the natural progression, and pasting even a "new age" shamanistic label on it would eventually lead to dogma, and we know where that ends up.

Its all the same thing, and frankly i think we are better off just being Topiates. I consider myself to be a student of myself, the universe, and being, and that is enough of a dogma for me.

Peace and Light
:pirate: TR
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#20 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 11:04 PM

There's another thing. He seemed to know everything about me.. things that only the freakin' CIA could possibly know.


:eusa_sile

Dude, maybe he was the CIA. Or Eckhart Tolle. Or Don Juan? IDK.

:pirate:




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