21 replies to this topic

[probe]

ive been thinking about how to make a bulk spawn.
what i came up with is steril 5 gallon buckets with lids,
couple 50 pound bags of wbs, and several 100% colonized wbs jars.

i was thinking of puting tyvek in the bucket lids
hydrating and sterilizing the 50 pound bag seed
and mixing both uncolonized seed and the colonized jars in the buckets to make a bulk spawn. (like a grain to grain transfer)

after the buckets are 100% colonized taking 3/4s of the bucket and putting into tubs and casing
and with the other 1/4 of spawn adding more hydrated and sterilized seed to it to make more spawn

what do you all think?
any feed back is greatly appreciated

Edited by probe, 25 March 2010 - 08:27 PM.
better understanding

[mydarling]

i don't understand.

what, exactly, are you mixing the colonized wbs with when you spawn it into the buckets? are you just mixing up multiple colonized wbs jars with each other? why?

and why are you spawning the material from the buckets again, after it is re-colonized? why not just put the bulk sub into tubs in the first place? what is the purpose of the bucket?

[probe]

im going to mix colonized jars in the bucket with uncolonized fresh seed to make more spawn.
like a grain to grain transfer

[mydarling]

ook, i see. but you could just use more jars for your g2g, instead of a bucket! you're going to pressure cook the fresh seed in jars anyway, so i'm not seeing why you'd want to transfer sterile colonized grain and sterile fresh grain, to an unsterile bucket. (even if you've cleaned the bucket thoroughly, it still is much less likely to be sterile than the jars that came out of your pressure cooker.) that just introduces more ways to contam.

plus, if one kernel of grain is contaminated and you mix ALL your jars together in a giant bucket, you will loose every jar - but if you keep everything separated in its original vessel, you can isolate contaminated jars from the rest, without loosing ALL your work.

i'd skip the bucket. just use larger mason jars when you PC the "fresh grain" (like quart or half gallon size), and g2g into those!

what substrate are you going to use for the wbs when you spawn it to tubs?

[TurkeyRanch]

How do you plan on sterilizing the WBS in the bucket? Sterile grain contams fairly easily, thats why its best used in a sealed jar. If you were able to do sterilize the WBS in the buckets, and only open the lids the for your giant g2g in front of a very large flow hood or in a big big glove box it might work.

Another problem you might run into is it will be hard to spot contams in an opaque bucket.

Sounds like your trying to increase your harvest, why not just get lots and lots of quart jars? Or try spawn bags. It would be easier I would think. And quart jars will colonize faster than a 5 gal bucket.

If you pull this off, I wanna see. That would be pretty cool. Good luck!

Peace!
:pirate: TR

[mydarling]

How do you plan on sterilizing the WBS in the bucket? Sterile grain contams fairly easily, thats why its best used in a sealed jar.

i don't think this is possible, unless s/he has a pressure cooker large enough to engulf a 5 gallon bucket (i.e. an autoclave)! if one were going to try this bucket g2g plan, the grain would have to be sterilized in other vessels first, then transferred into the bucket.

that's why it doesn't really make sense to use a bucket. just use larger jars! :pirate:

[probe]

well my friend that im doing this project with built a clean room that we are going to do this in... and we were going to use one of them turkey broilers to sterilize the extra seed in
and the sub im going to ues is going to be straw net/manure mix
and the casing is verm/coir mix

[mydarling]

well my friend that im doing this project with built a clean room that we are going to do this in... and we were going to use one of them turkey broilers to sterilize the extra seed in

i've never heard of a turkey broiler. got a pic? is it pressurized, or just like a big pot?

are you going to sterilize the wbs INSIDE of the bucket, or simply transfer the grain from the turkey broiler (?) to the bucket after it has been sterilized? i think for this to be successful, the bucket itself needs to be sterilized somehow.

also, it seems to me that sterilizing that much grain all at once in such a large vessel will require increased cooking time. how long do you think you'd sterilize it for?

it would be cool if you could get this to work!

[probe]

turkey broiler is like a bigs ass deep fryer... no its not pressuerized but i have made many wbs jars without a pressure cooker and didnt have any contam problems
and we are just going to transfer the seed to the bucket... as for time im not sure of that yet

we are going to sterilize the bucket with a portable steamer for cleaning if we can get the steam hot enough if not we will just use water thats 180+*f

and ill take pictures and do a log if we get this method to work for everybody here at mycotopia to see

[mydarling]

neat! well sounds like you've got a solid plan worked out, especially since you're using a no-PC method that you know works well for you. (BTW - what is that method? steaming? boiling?) i hope you are successful :) keep us posted.

[peakster]

Just sterilize more jars of WBS. you will for sure have contams the way you are describing. Just do up like 100 jars and spawn to a huge amount of straw / manure.

[TastyBeverage]

This would be pretty neat if you could get it to work, but i'm doubtful. Basically, no clean room is ever 100% fully clean, and that's because every time you step into it, you bring contaminates with you. I've been in an R&D facility clean room for bleeding edge computer storage devices where even one spec of dust will fry a plate because of static electricity. Before going in, you have to suit up in booties and a coverall, goggles, a face mask. Everything is covered except for a very small amount of skin on your face, and you go through sealed rooms with high powered fans and suction that are supposed to remove all traces of dust/pollen/spores/etc before you can go into the clean facility. And yet there is still contamination and hardware failure because of it.

I doubt that you can build a clean room that you can keep clean to the standards you'll need to do this G2G. Sorry, but that's my 2 cents.

I would LOVE you to prove me wrong, though!

[TurkeyRanch]

i don't think this is possible, unless s/he has a pressure cooker large enough to engulf a 5 gallon bucket (i.e. an autoclave)! if one were going to try this bucket g2g plan, the grain would have to be sterilized in other vessels first, then transferred into the bucket.

that's why it doesn't really make sense to use a bucket. just use larger jars! :pirate:

People make huge pressure cookers. . . But your right MD, I don't think sterile grain would survive the transfer from container to bucket. Thats basically what I was trying to say, "IF you could do in bucket, sealed etc.

Sounds like a workable plan probe, good anti-contam vibes man, look forward to a report.

:pirate: TR

[HelloImBob]

looks like a neat idea for plenty of bulk if it works, just like everybody has been saying its hard to get sterilized grains transfered without any contams...yes its possible but there are better ways like polypropylene (pp5) bags to knock up like 10 big bags with a sterile envioment with a little polyfil and a couple zipties with a dab of silicone for a selfhealing port...

then just dump all colonized wbs into coir or something and watch it go crazy...you would be amazed how far a bag of grains can go and how easy it is once you get your grains colonized to finish the rest

Goodluck!

[stellarj]

i started 2 tubs and one 5 gallon bucket at the same time with p. ernygii 3 weeks ago. the 2 tubs are going strong and no visible contam. the 5 gallon bucket showed contamination at around day 8. everything else was the same except the container.

[probe]

Okay well ill check into those bags but I'm still going to try the buckets...

I'm up for the challenge and if I can get it to work then great it just might be archive material.... I like to do the.Un-do-able

[zodd]

freezer bags are sterile from the factory.

get big ones ( there huge BTW)
get thee colonized wbs jars and 7 freshly sterilized

ilco clean the out lid and sides dump the colonized jars in first. mix them up so there is myc all over the inside fo the bad.

dump sterile wbs in the bag.
seal the zip lock
mix up realy good.
alow to colonise

i think this way would still be risky but it i believe it would have a higher chance of success and a lower work load.

but don't lett me deter you from your experI'ment. im interested to see what comes of this.

good luck

[thafunkyone]

I admire your ambition brother, but I'd rather see you grow mushrooms than grow all sorts of nasty stuff!

If you have several colonized jars already, and a clean room, just spawn to your bulk sub now. its nice to have a lot of spawn, but you don't need as much as you'd think. even for bigger projects. If you put this thing together and it contams around the rest of your stuff you run the risk of contaming all of your projects, then all your work is lost bro.

If you have a good amount of spawn don't compromise your entire grow- either g2g in real jars, which will get you a crap load of spawn in 1 wk, or spawn it now and get some mushies growing! While experimentation is great, tried and true methods will ensure you have a great grow, and don't have to start over..

[plantman21]

I say go for it, if you don't you may have that what if in the back of your head. Could you try a smaller scale of what your trying to do as a test run? My fingers are crossed and good vibes your way.


Plantman