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A/B vs STB Side By Side


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#41 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:15 PM

Solvents were reduced by 50% after 4.5 hours and placed in a -15C freezer.

Here is the STB after 1.5 hours in freezer.
user36426_pic5986_1273885649.jpg
And here is the A/B
user36426_pic5987_1273885649.jpg

Still too early to accept or reject the hypothesis, but Freddy is stupid-excited! I made him promise to leave the pans alone for at least 24 hours after he sent these to me. :)

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 08 August 2011 - 11:08 AM.
More nit-picking


#42 McDozd

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:38 PM

Good looking so far man!
:dance:

#43 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:30 PM

:dance:
The results are in, but [still!:spank:] not definitive yet because of this:
user36426_pic6003_1273973747.jpg
Here are both solvents after freeze precip. As you can see, the STB (right) solvent is still quite cloudy and will be reduced and frozen again to make certain all the goodies have precipitated out. Now that the bad news is out of the way, on to the good news.
:dance:

Both pans after 25 hours in -16C freezer: STB on the left
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STB after scraping
DSCN0301 [Desktop Resolution].JPG .JPG]

And the A/B after scraping
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Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 08 August 2011 - 11:43 PM.


#44 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:57 PM

DSCN0308.JPG
A/B weight: 2.269g
STB weight: 0.809g

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 08 August 2011 - 11:13 AM.


#45 McDozd

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:03 PM

Good looking, bro! So, tell me, A/B worth it? FOAF personally likes them the same journey wise. I have noticed though the A/B visuals seem to last longer, at least for me.(after slamming back into my skull):headbang:
Good job on the write up. MD
:kewl:

#46 KoolKake

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:18 PM

really nice comparison, but from my experience with stb u just need to use an extreme amount of solvent and ull get all or almost all of your dmt in one batch, i was pulling 13 grams of yeild from an stb done on 1.1lb of bark.

#47 calistoner

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:53 PM

:bow:

wow. you convinced me to never do stb again lol

so much more rewarding in a/b obviously. just look at the difference in yeild and prettyness lol

fuckin a man.

phineas you dog you :lol:

#48 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 11:33 PM

Good looking, bro! So, tell me, A/B worth it? FOAF personally likes them the same journey wise. I have noticed though the A/B visuals seem to last longer, at least for me.(after slamming back into my skull):headbang:
Good job on the write up. MD
:kewl:

No comments yet on biological differences between the extracts, they're still with Freddy on the sloop in international waters. Honestly though, I don't expect much difference between them. Let it be known that I am a DMT lightweight, 20mg of white crystal is more than enough to send me to Eastwood's "Geometricfractopiaville."

:bow:

wow. you convinced me to never do stb again lol

so much more rewarding in a/b obviously. just look at the difference in yeild and prettyness lol

fuckin a man.

phineas you dog you :lol:

Hooray, an A/B convert! Before you convert fully though, the yield data so far is not complete. Freddy expects at least another 0.8g to come out of the STB solvent when it is frozen again after another reduction. So far the experiment is lining up quite nicely with the hypothesis...

The prettyness factor is why Freddy loves A/B, plus the chemistry of extraction is just as much fun (if not more! :)) as smoking the final product! :lol: He plans to fully evaporate both solvents eventually as well, just to see what kind of weirdness doesn't precipitate, and for accurate gravimetric analysis.

Future plans:

1. Reduce and freeze both solvents again in an attempt to boost yields.
2. Evaporate both solvents completely after freezing and weigh the resulting goo.
3. Carry out and evaporate one more 100mL naphtha pull on both solutions, just to make sure all the goodies have been pulled out.
4. Carry out and evaporate a xylene pull on both solutions to see what kind of "jungle spice" can be pulled out of "spent" A/B vs STB extractions.
5. Evaporate the solvent used to defat the acid phase of the A/B, just to show what kind of nastiness is pulled out during defatting.


Thanks to everyone for their help in making this experiment possible! Posted Image

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 16 May 2010 - 12:34 AM.
Even more nit-picking :)


#49 whatchamacallit

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 12:10 AM

SWIM has done these both on the same batch of bark, and his yield was better on the STB, but after cleaning it all up, and only weighing the white, the A/B had a bit more pure white. There was still a lot of yellow/orange left from the STB as well as the white, which gave more overall weight, but the amount of pure white was more in the A/B extraction.. Perhaps he could have recrystallized the yellow/orange a bit more to get a bit more white out of the STB goo, but having a nice chunk of yellow can come in handy, also..

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:19 AM

big help, tyvm

#51 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:49 PM

Reducing, freezing, and evaporating both solvents as mentioned above affected the yields in the following way:

A/B: +105mg
STB: +135mg
Total A/B: 2.374g
Total STB: 0.944g


Clearly there was some experimental error in the STB segment of this process. Honestly, Freddy expected at least twice what has come out of the STB so far, and certainly a higher weight than the A/B process. So he did another Naphtha pull on the STB.

The STB and Naphtha were warmed to 40C in a water bath before 100mL was added to the STB and shaken liberally for 15 minutes. This separated in the time it takes Freddy to smoke a cigarette and the naphtha was the color of... healthy urine :) Another pull was performed in the same manner with the same result.

The resulting 200mL of naphtha was reduced under airflow by 50% as before and was cloudy & reeked of tryptamines at room temperature before freezing.

Freddy's best guess as to why this has happened is either insufficient mixing in the initial STB phase, or the bark didn't soak long enough in the basic solution. Your thoughts?

SWIM has done these both on the same batch of bark, and his yield was better on the STB, but after cleaning it all up, and only weighing the white, the A/B had a bit more pure white. There was still a lot of yellow/orange left from the STB as well as the white, which gave more overall weight, but the amount of pure white was more in the A/B extraction.. Perhaps he could have recrystallized the yellow/orange a bit more to get a bit more white out of the STB goo, but having a nice chunk of yellow can come in handy, also..

This is what Freddy expected, and hopefully will be supported by the pulls freezing now. A question for you though, how do you clean STB extracts and separate the colors? Every Re-X that Freddy has tried has ended with a lesser amount of white spice, and a yellow goo that never hardens enough to store...

#52 whatchamacallit

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 07:57 PM

After recrystallizing and separating the orange/yellow goo that settles out, you can repeat it again and get all you can of white. You just keep redissolving the orange in hot naphtha, letting it begin to cool and settle, then pour the clean solvent from the top, and freeze it to precipitate crystal.

Then you can just evap all the solvent, then let that orange goo sit for a few days usually less under a fan, and it will get hard. You can start to scrape it up and it will get harder quicker.

SWIM has had a chunk in the bottom of a half pint jar he left to sit for a week, then came back and used a knife to pop it out. Looked like an orange, crystally, wax hockey puck.
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#53 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:46 PM

After several days of Wazzling, Freddy managed to pull another 1.412g out of the STB.
user36426_pic6088_1274290906.jpg

user36426_pic6089_1274290906.jpg
A/B top: 2.374g
STB bottom: 2.356g

Freddy suspects there is even more spice to be wazzled out of that STB. I'll keep you guys posted on what he finds and the results of his "Future Plans" from several posts up.

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 08 August 2011 - 11:15 AM.


#54 McDozd

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 01:09 PM

Whatcha.. that goo at the bottom has DMT in it still, but do you think it has enough to be worth smoking? Would it be alot like jungle spice, or just harsh plantoils with some DMT in it? I only ask cus I have some too from reX. Its in a jar and is bright orange and crystally looking as you described.
Thanks
MD
:teeth:

#55 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:43 AM

Here's the final end result. :) A freak heat-wave on the sloop oxidized much of the A/B from earlier so everything (Including orange goo from the xylene pulls) was thrown together and recrystallized to as white as Freddy could make it. Total weight ~3g of pure as the driven snow fluffy crystal. Also, on the right an unknown amount of jungle goo that will not harden except on the edges of the vial. It reeks of tryptamines, is definately worth smoking, and scares the bejesus out of us! :lol:

user36426_pic6464_1277570156.jpg

Some Freebase harmala alkaloids on the left too, just for giggles.

Thanks again to all you guys who helped Freddy out. He will remain a disciple of A/B extractions forevermore, simply because of the quality difference. Yeah it takes more time but in chemistry, as in life, you get out what you put in. The next step in Freddy's mad scientist plan of doom is a side by side comparison of 3 different acids in identical processes. Happy Spicing everyone!

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 08 August 2011 - 11:17 AM.


#56 McDozd

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:22 PM

LOL. That jungle looks wicked. Nice work Phin.
MD
:dance:

#57 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:42 PM

Where does the line start for the 3 side by side acids one? :D

Nice job on the thread and great writeup buddy!

#58 ktbase763

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:43 AM

On an a/b tek, can lime replace lye if one has lime on hand, but no lye?
Should the acid be reduced if this substitution is made?
Or should swim just wait for the hardware store to open before basifying?


#59 feralronin

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:40 PM

I think I've finally found what I needed to push me over the edge to harvest my own.

I've been holding some for a year and a half now, because I just haven't had the right time. Luckily, next Wednesday has been sat aside and I FINALLY get to get into it again.

But now I'm more excited than ever to try this. Please subscribe to this thread so you can answer questions I may have. I figure it will just help others also. Biology I'm great with, chemistry I'm average.

:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

That's some redic end product you got there, wow...just wow.

#60 dido13

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 01:33 AM

6. Solution will be basified to pH 12 with concentrated Sodium Hydroxide Solution [If necessary, will be reduced to 800mL by evaporation]


what mean concentrated Sodium Hydroxide Solution
can you give me the proportions




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