I recieved 8 plants yesterday by mail and they are doing quite well. I now have almost every "strain" I have found listed. I purchased these from an old friend who has grown Salvia for more than 20 years.
I know that there are people here who ship them to other people. I want to share cuttings from these plants in the future. They came rooted in small pots, wrapped in newspaper, wrapped in plastic. I am wondering if other people use this method to ship them, and if anyone has any advise on shipping. These came 2nd day air.
Before now I have only seen 2 "strains" of S. divinorum. The "Hofmann & Wasson" strain and the "Palatable" (Blosser) strain. To me these look completely alike..
"Luna" strain was found growing under a Hofmann & Wasson clone, found by Daniel Seibert in Hawaii in 1994. The leaf is very different. More rounded. It will be interesting to see if other differences become apearant as it grows.
"Cerro Quemado" strain collected by L.J. Valdes,III, (the first person to isolate Salvinorin A, the active chemical in Salvia divinorum) near the village of Cerro Quemado, Mexico in the 1990s. It looks slightly differant than the "Hofmann & Wasson" clones.
"La Fuerza" (The Force) strain was collected in 2001 by Kathleen Harrison.
"Owenes" strain, A strain collected by Jack Owens on Cerro Rabon (in the Sierra Mazateca, Mexico) in June, 2003.
"Paradox" strain,A seed-grown strain raised by Daniel Siebert in 1994. Salvia divinorum from seed is almost impossible to find and should be valuable genetically.
I would not consider all of these to be true strains. Some where collected in different parts of Oaxaca and some like "Paradox" and "Cerro Quemado" show definite genetic variation.
I have been digging for the past month or so regarding the care of these plants. I have all the info as soil, ph, light etc. I spent the evening mixing soil and replanting them in large plastic pots. I have been told that this is something that should be done ASAP..
I want to know what kind of experiences people have had shipping them. My main worry is that these plants will soon become illegal, and I would like to get them to as many people as possible before this happens..
I am also interested if anyone has had any success in setting seeds. So far I have found some interesting info regarding this. If anyone has anything else it would be greatly apreciated.
Salvia experiences [merged]
Started By
Guest_thoth_*
, Sep 17 2004 09:15 PM
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#2
Guest_thoth_*
Guest_thoth_*
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- Guest
Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:17 PM
Most of the info regarding seeds refs back to this paper...
Studies of Salvia divinorum (Lamiaceae),
- L.J. Valdes III, G.M. Hatfield, M. Koreeda, and A.G. Paul
an Hallucinogenic Mint
from the Sierra Mazateca in Oaxaca, Central Mexico1
Economic Botany 41(2), 1987, pp. 283-291.
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1Received 3 November 1986; accepted 2 February 1987
College of Pharmacy and 3Department of Chemistry, the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109.
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Salvia divinorum Epling & Játiva-M. is one of the vision-inducing plants used by the Mazatec Indians of central Mexico. The present status of research is summarized. Experiments with material collected at different Oaxacan sites confirmed that the mint has white (rather than blue) flowers with a purple calyx and that flowering is induced by short daylength.
Spanish conquistadores arriving in Mexico during the 16th century noted native medico-religious uses of vision inducing plants such as peyotl (peyote, Lophophora williamsii (Lem. ex Salm-Dyck) Coult.), teonanactl (Psilocybe and related mushrooms), ololiuqui (the morning glories, Turbina corymbosa (L.) Raf. and Ipomoea violacea L.) and others (Bourke 1891; Schultes and Hoffman 1980; Urbina 1899; 1903). The New World came under the jurisdiction of the flourishing Spanish Inquisition, and Indian utilization of hallucinogenic plants was anathematic to the clergy (Aguirre Beltrán 1973). The identities of teonanactl (flesh of the gods) and ololiuhqui were forgotten for centuries (Schultes 1941b; Wasson and Wasson 1957). Expeditions to remote areas of central Mexico during the 1930s found that isolated peoples, including the Mazatecs of Northeastern Oaxaca, had continued to use hallucinogenic plants in ritual healing (Reko 1945; Schultes 1941a). The investigations of Wasson and colleagues were largely responsible for the introduction of Mazatec psychotropic plants to the outside world (Heim and Wasson 1958; Wasson 1962, 1963, 1980; Wasson and Wasson 1957; Wasson et al. 1974).
Along with rediscovery of ritual employment of mushrooms and morning-glory seeds, investigators reported the use of another divinatory plant by the Mazatec Indians. Johnson (1939) noted a vision inducing "tea" prepared from the leaves of an hierba MarÃa (the Virgin Mary's herb). Reko (1945) cryptically referred some unidentifiable leaves he collected in the Sierra Mazateca. Weitlaner (1952) described a ceremony using a "yerba de MarÃa". In 1957 Gómez Pompa collected non-flowering specimens (AGP 87556 and 93216, MEXU) of a purportedly hallucinogenic Salvia known as xka (ska) Pastora (the leaves of the shepherdess). Later, Wasson and Hoffman obtained a flowering specimen without visiting the collection site (Hoffman 1980; Wasson 1962). They gave the plant to Carl Epling, who had revised the New World Salvia subgenus Calosphace (Epling 1939). Epling and Játiva-M. assigned this new species, Salvia divinorum Epling and Játiva-M. (Lamiaceae), to section Dusenostachys (containing about 10 other species) (Fig. 1-3).
MAZATEC USE OF SALVIA DIVINORUM
There is little information concerning the Mazatec's existence before arrival of the Spaniards. Twenty thousand people, Including Don Alejandro Vicente, a curandero (healer) who was our informant, were forced to leave their homelands upon construction of the Miguel Alemán Dam during the 1950's (Barabas and Bartolomé 1973; Benitez 1973; Estrada 1977; Munn 1979; Villa-Rojas 1955; Weitlaner and Hoppe 1969). Don Alejandro told us that he used S. divinorum in ritual divination and curing (Valdés et al 1983). The foliage is gathered as needed (it purportedly loses psychotropic activity on drying), although it may be wrapped in leaves of Xanthosoma robustum Schoff (and other spp.) to keep it fresh for a week. Only the leaves are employed in the preparation of medicines; a dose is measured by counting them out in pairs. Taken in small doses (an infusion prepared from four or five pairs of fresh or dried leaves), the plant acts as what we interpreted to be a tonic or panacea. It purportedly regulates eliminatory functions (defecation and urination) and cures "anemia," "headache," and "rheumatism." It also "cures" the disease "panzón de barrego," translated as a swollen belly caused by a sorcerer's evil curse. In large doses (an infusion made from 20 to over 60 pairs of fresh leaves) the plant acts as a mild but effective hallucinogen. The leaves may be eaten entire (Cortés 1979; Wasson 1962), but they are often crushed in water to prepare an infusion, which is then drunk (Hofmann 1980; Valdés 1983; Valdés et al. 1983; Wasson, 1962). The infusion is often preferred to taking the leaves due to their extreme bitterness (our chemical investigations indicated this is probably due to high concentrations of water soluble tannins). Depending on the type of cure, ska MarÃa Pastora may be taken by the patient, the curandero, or both.
The Mazatec names for S. divinorum associate it with the Virgin Mary. When it is taken to induce a visionary experience, the "timidness of Mary" supposedly allows the vision to take place only in quiet or darkness. Given the Salvia infusion at Don Alejandro's home, Valdés (1983; Valdés et al. 1983) noted that village noises prevented full manifestations of its effects. However, on returning to the room where the researchers were staying, he underwent an experience that surprised him by the vividness of its apparent "reality." He found himself in an open meadow conversing with and holding on to a being in a white robe. It was an astounding visual, oral/aural, and tactile hallucination. Don Alejandro said the effects of the Salvia were similar to those produced by ingestion of morning-glory seeds. Taking an infusion of the morning-glory seeds under Don Alejandro's supervision at a later date, Valdés noted parallels between the two experiences. Both had a duration of several hours, and the subject eventually drifted off to sleep. A side effect common to both experiences is muscular incoordination. Because both plants are psychotropically weaker than vision inducing mushrooms, Don Alejandro used them to a greater extent, since he felt they were less "dangerous." He told us that after becoming experienced with the Salvia, a prospective curandero progresses to the morning-glory seeds and finally to the mushrooms. The obscurity of this mint, its bitter taste, and a misunderstanding of its psychotropic effects have kept it from becoming a recreational drug (DÃaz 1975; Foster 1984; Hofmann 1980; Valdés 1983; Valdés et al 1983; Wasson 1962). DÃaz (1975) reported that young people from Mexican cities travel to the Sierra Mazateca and purchase dried leaves of S. divinorum to make into cigarettes and smoke as a marijuana substitute. The effect is reportedly milder than that of Cannabis.
CHEMISTRY OF SALVIA DIVINORUM
Hofmann was the first to isolate and identify the psychoactive ingredients in the Mexican mushrooms and morning-glory seeds. He later made chemical studies of S. divinorum, but was unable to isolate and identify the compound(s) responsible for the plant's activity in human beings (Hofmann 1964, 1980). Work by DÃaz (1975) suggested that the Salvia contained alkaloids. In 1980 we began a bioassay directed analysis of leaves from plants grown at the Matthaei Botanical Gardens. Two diterpenes (Fig. 4) were eventually isolated (Valdés et al. 1984); one of them caused sedation in mice when tested in a modification of Hall's open field (Brimnlecombe and Greene 1962; Ryall 1958; Turner 1965; Valdés 1983). Normal mice remain active in the field for at least 30 min before finally resting; however, those given intraperitoneal doses of compound 1 were sedated in the field (compound 2 was inactive). Diterpene 1 is apparently not very toxic, as we have given it intraperitoneally to mice in doses up to 1 g/kg with apparent complete recovery after a few hours (the mice were observed for a week without incident; no necropsies were performed). Since the mice obviously not report "visions," we also dosed them with mescaline (an hallucinogen), secobarbital (a sedative-hypnotic), a partially purified ether extract of Cannabis sativa, and a pharmacologically active diterpene, forskolin. All compounds produced a sedation in mice when tested in the open field; that produced by mescaline was similar to the activity of the Salvia compound (unpublished data).
We named the new terpenoids divinorins A (1) and B (2), but later found that Ortega et al. (1982) previously isolated a compound, salvinorin, from S. divinorum that was identical to 1. Therefore the diterpenes should be known as salvinorins A and B respectively. In our studies of the mint's activity we noticed that salvinorin A was not so active as partially purified Salvia extracts in the open field. Further investigations have led to isolation of more diterpenes structurally related to 1. We are presently in the process of characterizing and testing these compounds for pharmacological activity. If salvinorin A and the new compounds we isolated from the mint prove to display hallucinogenic activity in humans, it will mean addition of a new class of compounds (the terpenes) and eventually new plant genera to the psychotropic pharmacopoeia. Diterpenes similar in structure to the salvinorins have been isolated from the ornamental S. splendens (Savona et al. 1978, 1979), as well as several other species of New World Salvia Although only a few of the several hundred species in subgenus Calosphace have been chemically investigated to date, diterpenes could prove to be very useful as chemotaxonomic markers in determining relationships within the subgenus.
BOTANICAL OBSERVATIONS ON SALVIA DIVINORUM
Wasson (1963) suggested that S. divinorum might be the plant the Aztecs knew as pipiltzintzintli ("most noble prince" or "venerable little children"); this name has become associated with the mint in recent literature (Emboden 1979; Foster 1984; Schultes 1976). Aguirre Beltrán (1973) summarized the data on pipiltzintzintli contained in the Inquisitorial Archives. It was apparently an hallucinogenic plant that had male and female varieties. All plant parts, including the roots and flowers were used medicinally (no mention was made of the seeds), and it was cultivated for such purposes. Aguirre Beltrán, claiming that pipiltzintzintli was actually ololiuhqui, presented a convincing argument for his assumption. Investigators have shown that the leaves and stems (aerial portions) of both Turbina corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea contain significant amounts of the psychotropic alkaloids found in their seeds (Staba and Laursen 1966; Taber et al. 1963). DÃaz (1979) cited a contemporary reference (Alzate 1772) that identified pipiltzintzintli as Cannabis. Although the morning-glories and cannabis are likely candidates, a precise botanical identification of pipiltzintzintli remains uncertain. Association of S. divinorum with the ancient Aztec plant is tenuous at best.
In describing S. divinorum, Epling stated that the flowers had a blue calyx tube and corolla, making an error that has endured in the literature (Foster 1984; Schultes 1976; Schultes and Hofmann 1980). Epling had a living specimen that he cultivated and presented to the botanical garden at the University of California, Los Angeles (accession 63-104). A living sample of this material is at the University of California, Berkeley (accession 76.100). After propagating material from these collections, Emboden correctly described the flowers as having a white corolla surrounded by a violet calyx (Emboden 1979, pers. comm. 1980). Until our expedition to Mexico, all S. divinorum growing in the United States was apparently descended from this single specimen (B. Bartholomew, pers. comm 1980; D.S. Verity, pers. comm. 1980; R.G. Wasson, pers. comm. 1980).
Salvia divinorum is reported to be a cultigen that rarely blooms (and then only when the branches are over 7 ft long) and apparently never sets seed (Emboden 1979; Foster 1984; R. Ornduff pers. comm. 1980; Wasson 1962). Nothing is known about natural pollinators, but the plant is parasitized by several species of insects (DÃaz 1975). Don Alejandro told us that ska MarÃa pastora could be found over wide areas of the Mazatecan highlands. But Cerro Rabon is a tall (2,100 m) and still relatively inaccessible mountain. Mazatecan legends consider it to be a semidormant volcano, with a magical lake at its summit. It is supposedly populated by local gods, demons and magical beings (Benitez 1973; Espinosa 1961; Incháustegui 1977). Therefore, after observing the localities in which the Salvia grew, we believe the mint is collected in the highlands and planted in more accessible places, where it becomes naturalized. It is doubtful that the Salvia is a true cultigen. Among flowering specimens we collected on Cerro Quemado, one (Fig. 1) was only about 1 m tall. We saw remains of flower spikes in a stand on Cerro Rabón near the village of Ayautla. Seeds (i.e., mericarps) were not found at either site. During our conversations Don Alejandro told us that the flowers produced seed that could be planted to grow the Salvia. While growing it for chemical research, we performed experiments that clarified some of the botanical questions surrounding the plant.
In addition to our collections of living specimens from both sites, we were able to obtain cuttings of plants asexually propagated from the original specimen obtained by Wasson and Hofmann in the village of San José Tenango, Oaxaca (B. Bartholomew, pers comm. 1980; D.S. Verity, pers. comm 1980; R.G. Wasson pers. comm. 1980). From herbarium sheets of Oaxacan collections, we noted that flowering specimens were collected only between late August and March, a time of short days (Valdés 1983). In Mexico City (which is not far north of the collection localities), daylength reaches a maximum of 13h in June and decreases to about 12 h in October (Salisbury and Ross 1978). Although most plants affected by daylength need exposure to a certain critical dark period to begin the development of flower buds, some need a tapered decrease in daylength to induce flowering (Bickford and Dunn 1973). Using this information, we devised a series of experiments.
FLOWER INDUCTION EXPERIMENTS
Preparations
Round plastic pots of 25 cm diameter and 25cm depth were filled with a mixture of topsoil, peatmoss, vermiculite, and perlite (4:2:1:1 vol/vol). A rooted 10-20 cm Salvia stem cutting (two or three nodes) was placed in each pot. Plants were watered as necessary. They were fertilized weekly with 1.0 l of a 2 tsp/5 gal solution of a 15-30-15 soluble fertilizer containing trace elements (Stern's Miracle-Gro®, with 0.05% each of Cu, Mn, and Zn as the sulfates and 0.1% Fe as a chelate) with 1 ml of an 85% phosphoric acid solution added to counteract basicity. This routine was used for all experiments.
Outdoor and greenhouse experiments
About 50 plants were cultivated in an Ann Arbor garden during summers. They were put in a greenhouse (Matthaei Botanical Gardens) in September 1980 and placed on 28 in tall 6 ft by 17ft benches. Minimum greenhouse temperature was 10°C. Maximum temperature (10-30°C) depended on outside conditions.
Experimental results
Buds were observed in late October. Flowering began on 10 Nov and continued until early January 1981. All specimens bloomed. Similar results occurred during 1981 and 1982. In autumn 1983 another research group used artificial lighting to extend greenhouse daylength, which caused the Salvia to abort flowers and revert to vegetative growth.
In the green house at a northern latitude S. divinorum elongated rapidly several feet in height shortly before flowering (Fig. 2). Although the mint was normally nearly devoid of odor, its upper leaves and flowering stalks became strongly aromatic as buds developed. We always observed pubescent white flowers with a purplish to blue-violet calyx. Sometimes, just before opening, the tip of the corolla displayed a lavender tinge, which eventually disappeared. The corolla was usually shed within 72h after complete opening.
Plants collected on Cerro Quemado were crossed with descendants of Epling's original specimen on 19 and 21 Nov 1980. Previous trials and other information (Emboden 1979; R. Ornduff, pers. comm. 1980) indicated that the species is probably self incompatible. Of 14 hand-pollinated flowers (later protected by glassine envelopes), four set seed, which was collected on 16 Dec 1980 (Fig. 3). Our attempt to grow the seeds in a growth chamber failed when it overheated to 75°C, drying their medium and killing them (the mature plants in the chamber died to the soil level, but soon grew again).
Growth chamber experiments
Sherer Environmental Chambers models CEL-512-37 and CEL-34-14 were freshly outfitted with incandescent (93W) and cool white VHO fluorescent bulbs. Eleven plants from each of the three sources were divided between the two chambers. Plant-top light-intensity varied from 2,800-3,300 ft-c, depending on plant height and the chamber involved. Controls were set for maximum relative humidity (measurements varied between 50 and 100%). Temperature was set at 22°C day (16H) and 17°C night (8 H). Plants were grown under these conditions for 12 wk. Beginning 24 Jan 1980, daylength was decreased from 16 to 11 h over a 4 wk period.
Experimental results
Buds were noted on 4 Apr 1980; flowering branches were collected on 20 Apr 1980 (Valdés s.n., 22 Oct 1980, MICH). All plants flowered at a height less than 1.0 m; the flowers had a purplish calyx and white corolla. Repeating the experiments with an abrupt change from 16 h to 11 h days indicated tapered decreases in daylength were not necessary to induce flowering. Increasing daylength to over 12 h caused plant to revert to vegetative growth and abort flowers (Valdés s.n., 15 June 1981, MICH). Later a malfunctioning timer switch indicated that less than a week of 24h days induced this reversion, even if conditions were returned to short (11h) days.
DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION
The greenhouse and growth-chamber experiments indicated that S. divinorum is an obligate short-day plant. Plant height is a minor factor in flower development, as several (growth chamber) specimens were less than 0.5 m tall when they flowered. Pollination experiments showed that the mint is probably self-sterile, but it remains to be demonstrated that S. divinorum will set viable seed.
To test for the hallucinogenic activity of S. divinorum in human beings, we drank the infusion of the leaves and waited for the effects to occur. Within 30 min we began to see visions, which lasted for several hours. This allowed rapid confirmation of the mint's psychotropic activity. But more interesting from a therapeutic standpoint are the other properties attributed to the plant; properties that are much more difficult to assess. Are these concepts that are translatable into our western (orthodox) healing theory, or is ska MarÃa Pastora being used as a magical treatment (for a placebo effect)? Extended observations in the field by an acute observer would undoubtedly be more fruitful than immediate attempts to isolate compounds responsible for these purported activities.
Although all recent information about the use of this mint has been gathered from Mazatec informants, the early reports of Reko and Weitlaner indicate that other tribe may have used it also. Reko (1945) alluded to use of the divinatory leaves by the Cuicatecs (in the district of Cuicatlán) as well as by the Mazatecs. Weitlaner (1952) noted that a plant called "yerba" de la Virgen was used for divination by the Otomi people of Tulancingo in Hidalgo and suggested it could be the same species as the "yerba" de MarÃa used by the Mazatecs.
Much botanical work remains to be done on S. divinorum, from further investigations of its range, habitat, pollination, and distribution, to a final unraveling of the taxonomic and genetic questions that have been raised about the plant and its relationships within the genus.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Investigations were supported by funds granted by the College of Pharmacy, the University of Michigan, and an NIH research grant awarded to Dr. Koreeda. Bruce Bartholomew provided us with cuttings of S. divinorum from the University of California Botanical Gardens, Berkeley. The people who answered our letters (pers. com) were helpful.
LITERATURE CITED
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Benitez, F. 1973. Los Indios de México. Vol. III. 2nd. ed. Ediciones Era, México.
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---------. 1979. Ethnopharmacology and taxonomy of Mexican psychodysleptic plants. J. Psychedelic Drugs, 11:71-101.
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---------------, R.J. and W.Hoppe 1969. The Mazatec. In: R. Wauchope, ed., Handbook of Middle American Indians, Vol. 7, p. 516-522. Univ. Texas Press, Austin.
Studies of Salvia divinorum (Lamiaceae),
- L.J. Valdes III, G.M. Hatfield, M. Koreeda, and A.G. Paul
an Hallucinogenic Mint
from the Sierra Mazateca in Oaxaca, Central Mexico1
Economic Botany 41(2), 1987, pp. 283-291.
-------------------------------------------------- -----
1Received 3 November 1986; accepted 2 February 1987
College of Pharmacy and 3Department of Chemistry, the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109.
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Salvia divinorum Epling & Játiva-M. is one of the vision-inducing plants used by the Mazatec Indians of central Mexico. The present status of research is summarized. Experiments with material collected at different Oaxacan sites confirmed that the mint has white (rather than blue) flowers with a purple calyx and that flowering is induced by short daylength.
Spanish conquistadores arriving in Mexico during the 16th century noted native medico-religious uses of vision inducing plants such as peyotl (peyote, Lophophora williamsii (Lem. ex Salm-Dyck) Coult.), teonanactl (Psilocybe and related mushrooms), ololiuqui (the morning glories, Turbina corymbosa (L.) Raf. and Ipomoea violacea L.) and others (Bourke 1891; Schultes and Hoffman 1980; Urbina 1899; 1903). The New World came under the jurisdiction of the flourishing Spanish Inquisition, and Indian utilization of hallucinogenic plants was anathematic to the clergy (Aguirre Beltrán 1973). The identities of teonanactl (flesh of the gods) and ololiuhqui were forgotten for centuries (Schultes 1941b; Wasson and Wasson 1957). Expeditions to remote areas of central Mexico during the 1930s found that isolated peoples, including the Mazatecs of Northeastern Oaxaca, had continued to use hallucinogenic plants in ritual healing (Reko 1945; Schultes 1941a). The investigations of Wasson and colleagues were largely responsible for the introduction of Mazatec psychotropic plants to the outside world (Heim and Wasson 1958; Wasson 1962, 1963, 1980; Wasson and Wasson 1957; Wasson et al. 1974).
Along with rediscovery of ritual employment of mushrooms and morning-glory seeds, investigators reported the use of another divinatory plant by the Mazatec Indians. Johnson (1939) noted a vision inducing "tea" prepared from the leaves of an hierba MarÃa (the Virgin Mary's herb). Reko (1945) cryptically referred some unidentifiable leaves he collected in the Sierra Mazateca. Weitlaner (1952) described a ceremony using a "yerba de MarÃa". In 1957 Gómez Pompa collected non-flowering specimens (AGP 87556 and 93216, MEXU) of a purportedly hallucinogenic Salvia known as xka (ska) Pastora (the leaves of the shepherdess). Later, Wasson and Hoffman obtained a flowering specimen without visiting the collection site (Hoffman 1980; Wasson 1962). They gave the plant to Carl Epling, who had revised the New World Salvia subgenus Calosphace (Epling 1939). Epling and Játiva-M. assigned this new species, Salvia divinorum Epling and Játiva-M. (Lamiaceae), to section Dusenostachys (containing about 10 other species) (Fig. 1-3).
MAZATEC USE OF SALVIA DIVINORUM
There is little information concerning the Mazatec's existence before arrival of the Spaniards. Twenty thousand people, Including Don Alejandro Vicente, a curandero (healer) who was our informant, were forced to leave their homelands upon construction of the Miguel Alemán Dam during the 1950's (Barabas and Bartolomé 1973; Benitez 1973; Estrada 1977; Munn 1979; Villa-Rojas 1955; Weitlaner and Hoppe 1969). Don Alejandro told us that he used S. divinorum in ritual divination and curing (Valdés et al 1983). The foliage is gathered as needed (it purportedly loses psychotropic activity on drying), although it may be wrapped in leaves of Xanthosoma robustum Schoff (and other spp.) to keep it fresh for a week. Only the leaves are employed in the preparation of medicines; a dose is measured by counting them out in pairs. Taken in small doses (an infusion prepared from four or five pairs of fresh or dried leaves), the plant acts as what we interpreted to be a tonic or panacea. It purportedly regulates eliminatory functions (defecation and urination) and cures "anemia," "headache," and "rheumatism." It also "cures" the disease "panzón de barrego," translated as a swollen belly caused by a sorcerer's evil curse. In large doses (an infusion made from 20 to over 60 pairs of fresh leaves) the plant acts as a mild but effective hallucinogen. The leaves may be eaten entire (Cortés 1979; Wasson 1962), but they are often crushed in water to prepare an infusion, which is then drunk (Hofmann 1980; Valdés 1983; Valdés et al. 1983; Wasson, 1962). The infusion is often preferred to taking the leaves due to their extreme bitterness (our chemical investigations indicated this is probably due to high concentrations of water soluble tannins). Depending on the type of cure, ska MarÃa Pastora may be taken by the patient, the curandero, or both.
The Mazatec names for S. divinorum associate it with the Virgin Mary. When it is taken to induce a visionary experience, the "timidness of Mary" supposedly allows the vision to take place only in quiet or darkness. Given the Salvia infusion at Don Alejandro's home, Valdés (1983; Valdés et al. 1983) noted that village noises prevented full manifestations of its effects. However, on returning to the room where the researchers were staying, he underwent an experience that surprised him by the vividness of its apparent "reality." He found himself in an open meadow conversing with and holding on to a being in a white robe. It was an astounding visual, oral/aural, and tactile hallucination. Don Alejandro said the effects of the Salvia were similar to those produced by ingestion of morning-glory seeds. Taking an infusion of the morning-glory seeds under Don Alejandro's supervision at a later date, Valdés noted parallels between the two experiences. Both had a duration of several hours, and the subject eventually drifted off to sleep. A side effect common to both experiences is muscular incoordination. Because both plants are psychotropically weaker than vision inducing mushrooms, Don Alejandro used them to a greater extent, since he felt they were less "dangerous." He told us that after becoming experienced with the Salvia, a prospective curandero progresses to the morning-glory seeds and finally to the mushrooms. The obscurity of this mint, its bitter taste, and a misunderstanding of its psychotropic effects have kept it from becoming a recreational drug (DÃaz 1975; Foster 1984; Hofmann 1980; Valdés 1983; Valdés et al 1983; Wasson 1962). DÃaz (1975) reported that young people from Mexican cities travel to the Sierra Mazateca and purchase dried leaves of S. divinorum to make into cigarettes and smoke as a marijuana substitute. The effect is reportedly milder than that of Cannabis.
CHEMISTRY OF SALVIA DIVINORUM
Hofmann was the first to isolate and identify the psychoactive ingredients in the Mexican mushrooms and morning-glory seeds. He later made chemical studies of S. divinorum, but was unable to isolate and identify the compound(s) responsible for the plant's activity in human beings (Hofmann 1964, 1980). Work by DÃaz (1975) suggested that the Salvia contained alkaloids. In 1980 we began a bioassay directed analysis of leaves from plants grown at the Matthaei Botanical Gardens. Two diterpenes (Fig. 4) were eventually isolated (Valdés et al. 1984); one of them caused sedation in mice when tested in a modification of Hall's open field (Brimnlecombe and Greene 1962; Ryall 1958; Turner 1965; Valdés 1983). Normal mice remain active in the field for at least 30 min before finally resting; however, those given intraperitoneal doses of compound 1 were sedated in the field (compound 2 was inactive). Diterpene 1 is apparently not very toxic, as we have given it intraperitoneally to mice in doses up to 1 g/kg with apparent complete recovery after a few hours (the mice were observed for a week without incident; no necropsies were performed). Since the mice obviously not report "visions," we also dosed them with mescaline (an hallucinogen), secobarbital (a sedative-hypnotic), a partially purified ether extract of Cannabis sativa, and a pharmacologically active diterpene, forskolin. All compounds produced a sedation in mice when tested in the open field; that produced by mescaline was similar to the activity of the Salvia compound (unpublished data).
We named the new terpenoids divinorins A (1) and B (2), but later found that Ortega et al. (1982) previously isolated a compound, salvinorin, from S. divinorum that was identical to 1. Therefore the diterpenes should be known as salvinorins A and B respectively. In our studies of the mint's activity we noticed that salvinorin A was not so active as partially purified Salvia extracts in the open field. Further investigations have led to isolation of more diterpenes structurally related to 1. We are presently in the process of characterizing and testing these compounds for pharmacological activity. If salvinorin A and the new compounds we isolated from the mint prove to display hallucinogenic activity in humans, it will mean addition of a new class of compounds (the terpenes) and eventually new plant genera to the psychotropic pharmacopoeia. Diterpenes similar in structure to the salvinorins have been isolated from the ornamental S. splendens (Savona et al. 1978, 1979), as well as several other species of New World Salvia Although only a few of the several hundred species in subgenus Calosphace have been chemically investigated to date, diterpenes could prove to be very useful as chemotaxonomic markers in determining relationships within the subgenus.
BOTANICAL OBSERVATIONS ON SALVIA DIVINORUM
Wasson (1963) suggested that S. divinorum might be the plant the Aztecs knew as pipiltzintzintli ("most noble prince" or "venerable little children"); this name has become associated with the mint in recent literature (Emboden 1979; Foster 1984; Schultes 1976). Aguirre Beltrán (1973) summarized the data on pipiltzintzintli contained in the Inquisitorial Archives. It was apparently an hallucinogenic plant that had male and female varieties. All plant parts, including the roots and flowers were used medicinally (no mention was made of the seeds), and it was cultivated for such purposes. Aguirre Beltrán, claiming that pipiltzintzintli was actually ololiuhqui, presented a convincing argument for his assumption. Investigators have shown that the leaves and stems (aerial portions) of both Turbina corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea contain significant amounts of the psychotropic alkaloids found in their seeds (Staba and Laursen 1966; Taber et al. 1963). DÃaz (1979) cited a contemporary reference (Alzate 1772) that identified pipiltzintzintli as Cannabis. Although the morning-glories and cannabis are likely candidates, a precise botanical identification of pipiltzintzintli remains uncertain. Association of S. divinorum with the ancient Aztec plant is tenuous at best.
In describing S. divinorum, Epling stated that the flowers had a blue calyx tube and corolla, making an error that has endured in the literature (Foster 1984; Schultes 1976; Schultes and Hofmann 1980). Epling had a living specimen that he cultivated and presented to the botanical garden at the University of California, Los Angeles (accession 63-104). A living sample of this material is at the University of California, Berkeley (accession 76.100). After propagating material from these collections, Emboden correctly described the flowers as having a white corolla surrounded by a violet calyx (Emboden 1979, pers. comm. 1980). Until our expedition to Mexico, all S. divinorum growing in the United States was apparently descended from this single specimen (B. Bartholomew, pers. comm 1980; D.S. Verity, pers. comm. 1980; R.G. Wasson, pers. comm. 1980).
Salvia divinorum is reported to be a cultigen that rarely blooms (and then only when the branches are over 7 ft long) and apparently never sets seed (Emboden 1979; Foster 1984; R. Ornduff pers. comm. 1980; Wasson 1962). Nothing is known about natural pollinators, but the plant is parasitized by several species of insects (DÃaz 1975). Don Alejandro told us that ska MarÃa pastora could be found over wide areas of the Mazatecan highlands. But Cerro Rabon is a tall (2,100 m) and still relatively inaccessible mountain. Mazatecan legends consider it to be a semidormant volcano, with a magical lake at its summit. It is supposedly populated by local gods, demons and magical beings (Benitez 1973; Espinosa 1961; Incháustegui 1977). Therefore, after observing the localities in which the Salvia grew, we believe the mint is collected in the highlands and planted in more accessible places, where it becomes naturalized. It is doubtful that the Salvia is a true cultigen. Among flowering specimens we collected on Cerro Quemado, one (Fig. 1) was only about 1 m tall. We saw remains of flower spikes in a stand on Cerro Rabón near the village of Ayautla. Seeds (i.e., mericarps) were not found at either site. During our conversations Don Alejandro told us that the flowers produced seed that could be planted to grow the Salvia. While growing it for chemical research, we performed experiments that clarified some of the botanical questions surrounding the plant.
In addition to our collections of living specimens from both sites, we were able to obtain cuttings of plants asexually propagated from the original specimen obtained by Wasson and Hofmann in the village of San José Tenango, Oaxaca (B. Bartholomew, pers comm. 1980; D.S. Verity, pers. comm 1980; R.G. Wasson pers. comm. 1980). From herbarium sheets of Oaxacan collections, we noted that flowering specimens were collected only between late August and March, a time of short days (Valdés 1983). In Mexico City (which is not far north of the collection localities), daylength reaches a maximum of 13h in June and decreases to about 12 h in October (Salisbury and Ross 1978). Although most plants affected by daylength need exposure to a certain critical dark period to begin the development of flower buds, some need a tapered decrease in daylength to induce flowering (Bickford and Dunn 1973). Using this information, we devised a series of experiments.
FLOWER INDUCTION EXPERIMENTS
Preparations
Round plastic pots of 25 cm diameter and 25cm depth were filled with a mixture of topsoil, peatmoss, vermiculite, and perlite (4:2:1:1 vol/vol). A rooted 10-20 cm Salvia stem cutting (two or three nodes) was placed in each pot. Plants were watered as necessary. They were fertilized weekly with 1.0 l of a 2 tsp/5 gal solution of a 15-30-15 soluble fertilizer containing trace elements (Stern's Miracle-Gro®, with 0.05% each of Cu, Mn, and Zn as the sulfates and 0.1% Fe as a chelate) with 1 ml of an 85% phosphoric acid solution added to counteract basicity. This routine was used for all experiments.
Outdoor and greenhouse experiments
About 50 plants were cultivated in an Ann Arbor garden during summers. They were put in a greenhouse (Matthaei Botanical Gardens) in September 1980 and placed on 28 in tall 6 ft by 17ft benches. Minimum greenhouse temperature was 10°C. Maximum temperature (10-30°C) depended on outside conditions.
Experimental results
Buds were observed in late October. Flowering began on 10 Nov and continued until early January 1981. All specimens bloomed. Similar results occurred during 1981 and 1982. In autumn 1983 another research group used artificial lighting to extend greenhouse daylength, which caused the Salvia to abort flowers and revert to vegetative growth.
In the green house at a northern latitude S. divinorum elongated rapidly several feet in height shortly before flowering (Fig. 2). Although the mint was normally nearly devoid of odor, its upper leaves and flowering stalks became strongly aromatic as buds developed. We always observed pubescent white flowers with a purplish to blue-violet calyx. Sometimes, just before opening, the tip of the corolla displayed a lavender tinge, which eventually disappeared. The corolla was usually shed within 72h after complete opening.
Plants collected on Cerro Quemado were crossed with descendants of Epling's original specimen on 19 and 21 Nov 1980. Previous trials and other information (Emboden 1979; R. Ornduff, pers. comm. 1980) indicated that the species is probably self incompatible. Of 14 hand-pollinated flowers (later protected by glassine envelopes), four set seed, which was collected on 16 Dec 1980 (Fig. 3). Our attempt to grow the seeds in a growth chamber failed when it overheated to 75°C, drying their medium and killing them (the mature plants in the chamber died to the soil level, but soon grew again).
Growth chamber experiments
Sherer Environmental Chambers models CEL-512-37 and CEL-34-14 were freshly outfitted with incandescent (93W) and cool white VHO fluorescent bulbs. Eleven plants from each of the three sources were divided between the two chambers. Plant-top light-intensity varied from 2,800-3,300 ft-c, depending on plant height and the chamber involved. Controls were set for maximum relative humidity (measurements varied between 50 and 100%). Temperature was set at 22°C day (16H) and 17°C night (8 H). Plants were grown under these conditions for 12 wk. Beginning 24 Jan 1980, daylength was decreased from 16 to 11 h over a 4 wk period.
Experimental results
Buds were noted on 4 Apr 1980; flowering branches were collected on 20 Apr 1980 (Valdés s.n., 22 Oct 1980, MICH). All plants flowered at a height less than 1.0 m; the flowers had a purplish calyx and white corolla. Repeating the experiments with an abrupt change from 16 h to 11 h days indicated tapered decreases in daylength were not necessary to induce flowering. Increasing daylength to over 12 h caused plant to revert to vegetative growth and abort flowers (Valdés s.n., 15 June 1981, MICH). Later a malfunctioning timer switch indicated that less than a week of 24h days induced this reversion, even if conditions were returned to short (11h) days.
DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION
The greenhouse and growth-chamber experiments indicated that S. divinorum is an obligate short-day plant. Plant height is a minor factor in flower development, as several (growth chamber) specimens were less than 0.5 m tall when they flowered. Pollination experiments showed that the mint is probably self-sterile, but it remains to be demonstrated that S. divinorum will set viable seed.
To test for the hallucinogenic activity of S. divinorum in human beings, we drank the infusion of the leaves and waited for the effects to occur. Within 30 min we began to see visions, which lasted for several hours. This allowed rapid confirmation of the mint's psychotropic activity. But more interesting from a therapeutic standpoint are the other properties attributed to the plant; properties that are much more difficult to assess. Are these concepts that are translatable into our western (orthodox) healing theory, or is ska MarÃa Pastora being used as a magical treatment (for a placebo effect)? Extended observations in the field by an acute observer would undoubtedly be more fruitful than immediate attempts to isolate compounds responsible for these purported activities.
Although all recent information about the use of this mint has been gathered from Mazatec informants, the early reports of Reko and Weitlaner indicate that other tribe may have used it also. Reko (1945) alluded to use of the divinatory leaves by the Cuicatecs (in the district of Cuicatlán) as well as by the Mazatecs. Weitlaner (1952) noted that a plant called "yerba" de la Virgen was used for divination by the Otomi people of Tulancingo in Hidalgo and suggested it could be the same species as the "yerba" de MarÃa used by the Mazatecs.
Much botanical work remains to be done on S. divinorum, from further investigations of its range, habitat, pollination, and distribution, to a final unraveling of the taxonomic and genetic questions that have been raised about the plant and its relationships within the genus.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Investigations were supported by funds granted by the College of Pharmacy, the University of Michigan, and an NIH research grant awarded to Dr. Koreeda. Bruce Bartholomew provided us with cuttings of S. divinorum from the University of California Botanical Gardens, Berkeley. The people who answered our letters (pers. com) were helpful.
LITERATURE CITED
Aguirre Beltrán, G. 1973. Medicina y mágia. Inst. Nac. Indigenista, Collección SEP/INI 1, México.
Alzate y Ramirez, A. 1772. El cañamo, algunas costumbres de los indios. Gacetas de Literatura de México 4:95-102 (Cited in DÃaz, 1979)
Barabas, A., and M. Bartolomé. 1973. Hydraulic development and ethnocide: the Mazatec and Chinantec people of Oaxaca, Mexico. International Workers Group for Indigenous Affairs, Document 15. Copenhagen.
Benitez, F. 1973. Los Indios de México. Vol. III. 2nd. ed. Ediciones Era, México.
Bickford, E.D., and S. Dunn. 1973. Lighting for plant growth. Kent State Univ. Press, Kent, OH.
Bourke, J.G. 1891. Scatological rites of all nations. Loudermilk, Washington, DC.
Brimblecombe, R.W., and A.L. Green. 1962. Effects of monoamine oxidase inhibitors on the behavior of rats in Hall's open field. Nature (London), 194: 983.
Cortés, J. 1979. La medicina tradicional en la Sierra Mazateca. Actes du XLIIe Congrès, Paris: Societé des Americanistes 6:349-356.
DÃaz, J.L. 1975. EtnofarmacologÃa de algunos psicotrópicos vegetales de México. In J.L. DÃaz, ed., EtnofarmacologÃa de Plantas Alucinójenas Latinoamericanas, p. 135-201. Cuadernos CientÃficos CEMEF 4, México.
---------. 1979. Ethnopharmacology and taxonomy of Mexican psychodysleptic plants. J. Psychedelic Drugs, 11:71-101.
Emboden, W. 1979. Narcotic Plants, Rev. ed., Macmillan, New York.
Epling, C. 1939. A Revision of Salvia, Subgenus Calosphace. Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni Veg. Beih. 110:1-383.
---------, and C. Játiva-M. 1962. A new species of Salvia from Mexico. Bot. Mus. Leafl. 20:75-76.
Espinosa, M. 1961. Apuntes históricos de las tribus Chinantecas, Mazatecas y Popolucas (1910). In: H.F. Cline, ed., Papeles de la Chinantla III. Serie CientÃfica, 7. Mus. Nac. Antropol., México.
Estrada, A. 1977. Vida de MarÃa Sabina. Siglo XXI, México(English: Estrada, A. 1981. Maria Sabina, her life and chants, Ross-Erickson, Santa Barbara, CA.).
Foster, S. 1984. Herbal Bounty. Peregrine Smith Books,Salt Lake City, UT.
Heim, R. and R.G. Wasson 1958. Les champignons hallucinogénes du Mexique. Edit. Mus. Nat. Hist. Paris.
Hofmann, A. 1964. Mexicanische Zauberdrogen und ihre Wirkstoffe. Pl. Med. 12:341-352.
------------. 1980. LSD, my problem child. McGraw-Hill, New York.
Incháustegui, C. 1977. Relatos del Mundo mágico Mazateco. Inst. Nac. de Antropol. Hist., México.
Johnson, J.B. 1939. The elements of Mazatec witchcraft, Etnol. Stud. 9:128-150.
Munn, H. 1979. The mushrooms of language. In M. Harner, ed., Hallucinogens and shamanism, p. 86-122. Oxford Univ. Press, New York.
Ortega, A., J.F. Blount, J.F. and P.S. Marchand. 1982. Salvinorin, a new trans-neoclerodane diterpene from Salvia divinorum (Labiatae). J. Chem. Soc., Perkin Trans. I: 2505-2508.
Reko, B.P. 1945. Mitobótanica Zapoteca. Private printing, Tacubaya, México.
Ryall, R.W. 1958. Effect of drugs on emotional behavior of rats. Nature 182: 1606-1607.
Salisbury, F.B., and C.W. Ross. 1978. Plant physiology. 2nd. ed. Wadsworth, Belmont, CA.
Savona, G., M.P. Paternostro, F. Piozzi, J.R. Hanson, P.B. Hitchcock, and S.A. Thomas. 1978. Salviarin, a new diterpenoid from Salvia splendens. J. Chem. Soc., Perkin Trans. I, 643-646.
----------, ------------, --------------, and ----------. 1979. Splendidin, a New trans-clerodane from Salvia splendens. J. Chem. Soc., Perkin Trans. I, 533-534.
Schultes, R.E. 1941a. Economic aspects of the flora of northeastern Oaxaca, Mexico. Ph.D. thesis, Harvard Univ., Cambridge, MA.
-------------. 1941b. A contribution to our knowledge of Rivea corymbosa, the narcotic ololiuqui of the Aztecs. Harvard Bot. Mus., Cambridge, MA.
-------------. 1976. Hallucinogenic plants, Golden Press, Western, New York.
-------------, and A. Hofmann. 1980. The botany and chemistry of hallucinogens. 2nd ed. Thomas, Springfield, IL.
Staba, E.J., and P. Laursen. 1966. Morning glory tissue cultures: growth and examination for indole alkaloids. J. Pharmm. Sci. 55:1099-1101.
Taber, W.A., R.A. Heacock, and M.E. Mahon. 1963. Ergot-type alkaloids in vegetative tissue of Rivea corymbosa (L.) Hall.f. Phytochemistry 2:99-101.
Turner, R.A. 1965. Screening methods in pharmacology. Academic Press, New York.
Urbina, M. 1899. Peyotes. Datos para su estudio. Anales Inst. Med. Nac. México 4:203-214 (Note: error - the author is anonymous).
Urbina, M. 1903. El peyote y el ololiuqui. Anales Museo Nac. México 7:25-48.
Valdés, L.J., III. 1983. The pharmacognosy of Salvia divinorum Epling and Játiva M. Ph.D. thesis, Univ. Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI.
----------------, J.L. DÃaz, and A.G. Paul. 1983. Ethnopharmacology of ska MarÃa Pastora (Salvia divinorum Epling and Játiva-M.). J. Ethnopharmacol. 7:287-312.
----------------, W.M. Butler, G.M. Hatfield, A.G. Paul, and M. Koreeda. 1984. Divinorin A, a Psychotropic terpenoid, and divinorin B from the hallucinogenic Mexican Mint Salvia divinorum. J. Org. Chem. 49: 4716-4720.
Villa-Rojas, A. 1955. Los Mazatecos y el problema indÃgena de la cuenca del Papaloapan. Ediciones Inst. Nac. Indigenista, México.
Wasson, R.G. 1962. A new Mexican psychotropic drug from the mint family. Bot. Mus. Leafl. 20:77-84.
--------------. 1963. Notes on the present status of Ololiuhqui and the other hallucinogens of Mexico. Bot. Mus. Leafl. 20:161-193.
--------------. 1980. The wondrous mushroom. McGraw-Hill, New York.
--------------, G. Cowan, F. Cowan, and W. Rhodes, W. 1974 MarÃia Sabina and her Mazatec mushroom velada. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, New York.
Wasson, V.P. and R.G. Wasson. 1957. Mushrooms, Russia and history. Vol. II, Pantheon, New York.
Weitlaner, R.J. 1952. Curaciones Mazatecas. Anal. Inst. Nac. Antropol. Hist. México 4:279-285.
---------------, R.J. and W.Hoppe 1969. The Mazatec. In: R. Wauchope, ed., Handbook of Middle American Indians, Vol. 7, p. 516-522. Univ. Texas Press, Austin.
#3
duaut
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Former Member
Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:51 PM
When you're ready to trade, make sure you contact me, I have Blosser and the Wasson strain. I would love to get a few other strains of Salvia.
Thank You Thoth
(Message edited by duaut on September 18, 2004)
Thank You Thoth
(Message edited by duaut on September 18, 2004)
#4
tobynutz
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 01:36 AM
let me know also. i would love to grow one.
#5
Guest_thoth_*
Guest_thoth_*
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 08:32 PM
I would like to start some sort of legal botanical seed plant exchange here at Mycotopia. Thats my goal.
Over the years I sometimes grow tired of growing the mushroom. I still do oysters and Reishi, but I sometimes need a break from doing the magic ones. LOL! I have never done PF tek and I have only done casings, I usualy end up with more shrooms than I could ever eat. I may delve into pf tek someday. Thats why I always tell people to make their own clean prints, they last for at least a few years and you can start over at any time, I have more than enough prints..
I would like to do more work with Salvia, Caapi, Chacruna and Chalaponga etc. I am also very interested in all medical plants... I also have a San Pedro coming my way that I won here. I have never realy worked with cacti before so it should be interesting.
Over the years I sometimes grow tired of growing the mushroom. I still do oysters and Reishi, but I sometimes need a break from doing the magic ones. LOL! I have never done PF tek and I have only done casings, I usualy end up with more shrooms than I could ever eat. I may delve into pf tek someday. Thats why I always tell people to make their own clean prints, they last for at least a few years and you can start over at any time, I have more than enough prints..
I would like to do more work with Salvia, Caapi, Chacruna and Chalaponga etc. I am also very interested in all medical plants... I also have a San Pedro coming my way that I won here. I have never realy worked with cacti before so it should be interesting.
#7
bearpaw
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- Expired Member
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Mycophiliac
Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:50 PM
Im really fascinated by the fact that no one has been able to get seeds from salvia, I cant imagine that this plant has existed solely through cutting propagation? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?
#8
Guest_hidra_*
Guest_hidra_*
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Posted 21 September 2004 - 01:56 PM
some people are selling seeds sometimes....but they are very expensive..and they rarely sprout...
#9
Guest_thoth_*
Guest_thoth_*
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Posted 03 October 2004 - 03:24 PM
After spending 3 weeks with these plants I am now of the opinion that it is in no way their nature to produce seeds. Thus I will not atempt to do so.
Before this I have never grown Salvia divinorum. I did a lot of digging before I even ordered the cuttings. So far this is what I have learned from experience:
1. Floros work great with these plants, I have mine growing under 2 F40 40w 5000K fixtures. Each fixture has 2 tubes. I see no need whatsoever to use more expensive methods. The fixtures and tubes are cheap, and mine hang over 2 indoor greenhouses . Total price for the whole setup was about 60 dollars. 4 plants per greenhouse with much room for expansion.
2. I repot these plants in the largest plastic pots I could find, not much to choose from this time of year. When I received these plants they where just cuttings with a few leaves. I kept them in 80 - 100% humidity the first 24 hours after I received them. I then backed the humidity off to 80% the next day and kept it there for another day. The next day I varied the humidity between 70 and 80%. Right now they grow at 70% humidity, with a 30 minute "fog" in the morning. They are taken out of the greenhouses 3 times a day for 1 hour. They seem to thrive this way.
2. I re potted them 5 days after I receivied them. I see many advantages to plastic pots. I also see many advantages to LARGE plastic post. These plants have extensive root systems.
3. From my digging I found several soil mixtures that people have been using. From what I have read it is best to keep the soil as "lite" as possible. I read a few blurbs about people using "leaf mold" in their mixes so I potted 75% the plants in a mix containing 1 part pasturized moldy leaves. I have a supply made from oak leaves I use for other plants. I have found this makes a major difference. The plants that where planted in the 1 part leaf mold mix are thriving. My basic mix was:
4 parts soil
2 parts peat moss
1 part vermiculite
1 part perlite
1 part leaf mold
4. I have only watered these plants twice in 3 weeks. Once when they where re potted and once yesterday using distilled water both times and I used miracid in the water yesterday. My goal is to keep the soil PH between 6.1 and 6.6. From my reading I only plan on watering them every 10 - 14 days days or so and using the miracid once a month. I understand these plants are very susceptible to root rot if over watered. I will wait until they are dry to the touch before I water them. The pots are also on wire racks so the soil is kept well drained.
This picture shows the difference between the plants that are in the leaf mold mix vs the one just in the plain soil mix. The plant closest to the camera just had normal soil.
These things have grown much faster than I imagined they would have. They went from scrawny cuttings with just a few leaves to real plants in the past 2 weeks since I re potted them.
The root systems of these plants seem to LOVE oxygen. If one had the space and the time I suspect they would do great hydroponics.
So far so good they are alive.. I have had much experience growing orchids and they care of these plants is alot like the care of orchids. They DO NOT NEED to be kept in 80 - 100% humidity. 70 to 80 percent works very well. I have hardened my plants off to 60 to 70% right now. It is a slow process, but I consider 70% humidity to be healthier for them, with a morning "fog bath". I would think keeping them at very high humidity would be inviting trouble in the form of desiese and bugs.. Just my opinion.
Here is the cactus I won from Mycotopia, thanks Hippie3 and everyone else!
Before this I have never grown Salvia divinorum. I did a lot of digging before I even ordered the cuttings. So far this is what I have learned from experience:
1. Floros work great with these plants, I have mine growing under 2 F40 40w 5000K fixtures. Each fixture has 2 tubes. I see no need whatsoever to use more expensive methods. The fixtures and tubes are cheap, and mine hang over 2 indoor greenhouses . Total price for the whole setup was about 60 dollars. 4 plants per greenhouse with much room for expansion.
2. I repot these plants in the largest plastic pots I could find, not much to choose from this time of year. When I received these plants they where just cuttings with a few leaves. I kept them in 80 - 100% humidity the first 24 hours after I received them. I then backed the humidity off to 80% the next day and kept it there for another day. The next day I varied the humidity between 70 and 80%. Right now they grow at 70% humidity, with a 30 minute "fog" in the morning. They are taken out of the greenhouses 3 times a day for 1 hour. They seem to thrive this way.
2. I re potted them 5 days after I receivied them. I see many advantages to plastic pots. I also see many advantages to LARGE plastic post. These plants have extensive root systems.
3. From my digging I found several soil mixtures that people have been using. From what I have read it is best to keep the soil as "lite" as possible. I read a few blurbs about people using "leaf mold" in their mixes so I potted 75% the plants in a mix containing 1 part pasturized moldy leaves. I have a supply made from oak leaves I use for other plants. I have found this makes a major difference. The plants that where planted in the 1 part leaf mold mix are thriving. My basic mix was:
4 parts soil
2 parts peat moss
1 part vermiculite
1 part perlite
1 part leaf mold
4. I have only watered these plants twice in 3 weeks. Once when they where re potted and once yesterday using distilled water both times and I used miracid in the water yesterday. My goal is to keep the soil PH between 6.1 and 6.6. From my reading I only plan on watering them every 10 - 14 days days or so and using the miracid once a month. I understand these plants are very susceptible to root rot if over watered. I will wait until they are dry to the touch before I water them. The pots are also on wire racks so the soil is kept well drained.
This picture shows the difference between the plants that are in the leaf mold mix vs the one just in the plain soil mix. The plant closest to the camera just had normal soil.
These things have grown much faster than I imagined they would have. They went from scrawny cuttings with just a few leaves to real plants in the past 2 weeks since I re potted them.
The root systems of these plants seem to LOVE oxygen. If one had the space and the time I suspect they would do great hydroponics.
So far so good they are alive.. I have had much experience growing orchids and they care of these plants is alot like the care of orchids. They DO NOT NEED to be kept in 80 - 100% humidity. 70 to 80 percent works very well. I have hardened my plants off to 60 to 70% right now. It is a slow process, but I consider 70% humidity to be healthier for them, with a morning "fog bath". I would think keeping them at very high humidity would be inviting trouble in the form of desiese and bugs.. Just my opinion.
Here is the cactus I won from Mycotopia, thanks Hippie3 and everyone else!
#10
Guest_ozone_*
Guest_ozone_*
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- Guest
Posted 16 January 2005 - 04:06 PM
Thoth (Dr_hyde) , been a while since you posted about your plants . Would be nice to have an update !
#11
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
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- Guest
Posted 16 January 2005 - 04:16 PM
They where growing like mad. I had to harvest many leaves. I alse made at least one cutting from each of them.
I have found that the plants actualy thrive from being harvested. I cut each one down to almost 1 foot tall and they are growing like mad again. Even faster than before, and they seem to thrive on being damaged like this.
People have told me they are like this once the root system has established itself.
I tasted a few of the leaves I harvested a few days ago. I smoked a small amount and used the quid method with a few others. These leaves are MUCH more powerfull than anything, except a fortified mixture, I have ever purchased.
I have found that the plants actualy thrive from being harvested. I cut each one down to almost 1 foot tall and they are growing like mad again. Even faster than before, and they seem to thrive on being damaged like this.
People have told me they are like this once the root system has established itself.
I tasted a few of the leaves I harvested a few days ago. I smoked a small amount and used the quid method with a few others. These leaves are MUCH more powerfull than anything, except a fortified mixture, I have ever purchased.
#12
Guest_vrooota!_*
Guest_vrooota!_*
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- Guest
Posted 16 January 2005 - 07:11 PM
I'm glad yur salvia is growin good, a lot of people I know have had trouble growing it.
out of curiosity: why do you change your username so often around here? security?
out of curiosity: why do you change your username so often around here? security?
#13
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
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- Guest
Posted 16 January 2005 - 07:33 PM
I just get bored with them....
I also do not like to see thousands of posts beside my name. He he I feel intiminated by myself.
I also do not like to see thousands of posts beside my name. He he I feel intiminated by myself.
#14
tobynutz
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- Free Member
- 1,233 posts
VIP Member
Posted 16 January 2005 - 09:28 PM
i would like to buy some or trade for some if possible. i got one but it died
#15
tobynutz
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- Free Member
- 1,233 posts
VIP Member
Posted 16 January 2005 - 09:30 PM
i would like to buy some or trade for some if possible. i got one but it died
#16
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
Guest_roo-who-boo-hoo_*
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- Guest
Posted 16 January 2005 - 10:21 PM
Wait untill May or June, it is way to cold to ship live plants here.
The 2 strains that do the best are the "Hofmann & Wasson" strain and the "Palatable" (Blosser) strain. I believe these are the same from my own observation. The rest are mutants, and are realy not worth it unless you plan on trying to cross strains or develope new ones. This is very much possible but VERY time consuming. Getting them to flower is not all that difficult, but one has to polinate them by hand and pray they set seeds. Even if you do get seeds, only one in 10 or less will germinate from what I have heard.
I plan on giving away as many as I can for the cost of postage. Air mail is the best way to go. I will only go with small rooted/potted plants as cutting seem to be tempermental when shipped. I did not have much luck with these.
The 2 strains that do the best are the "Hofmann & Wasson" strain and the "Palatable" (Blosser) strain. I believe these are the same from my own observation. The rest are mutants, and are realy not worth it unless you plan on trying to cross strains or develope new ones. This is very much possible but VERY time consuming. Getting them to flower is not all that difficult, but one has to polinate them by hand and pray they set seeds. Even if you do get seeds, only one in 10 or less will germinate from what I have heard.
I plan on giving away as many as I can for the cost of postage. Air mail is the best way to go. I will only go with small rooted/potted plants as cutting seem to be tempermental when shipped. I did not have much luck with these.
#17
Guest_dooby_*
Guest_dooby_*
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- Guest
Posted 17 January 2005 - 12:49 AM
Those plants look very nice 
I love floros for sallys too.
I love floros for sallys too.
#18
Guest_vrooota!_*
Guest_vrooota!_*
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- Guest
Posted 17 January 2005 - 11:07 AM
lol... intimidated by yourself
#19
Guest_JT_*
Guest_JT_*
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- Guest
Posted 18 January 2005 - 08:00 PM
yeah i'm using floros when i get mine from dooby dooby doo
#20
Guest_xochi_*
Guest_xochi_*
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- Guest
Posted 22 December 2004 - 06:54 AM
Hi all,
Been away for a while. Moved back to my country of birth, the Netherlands. For anyone interested, here is my first Salvia experience.
Short version:
Put .2 grams in my favorite waterpipe, smoked it in one toke, filled her up again with .2 grams, exhaled, inhaled again. Found myself back at the other side of the house while my friend tried to stop me from running through the front door.
Long version:
Since I first read about Salvia, I knew I was going to do it someday. A couple of weeks back I got two packs of 15x Salvia. That night I read the instructions on the package: take 0.02 grams for a mild trip, 0.03 for a heavy trip. Very carefully I dropped a little bit of the stuff in my waterpipe and smoked it. Nothing happened, I didn't feel anything at all. I refilled right away with a slightly higher dose and took it down as well. I felt a strange sensation, my consciousness was different, trippy, and my reality seemd to become smaller, it felt like the only thing that was real, was the room I was in. No hallucinations and this feeling went away after a minute or so.
I decided to read up others experiences first before doing a higher dose and I called the smartshop about the dosage advice on the package. The guy told me, the 0.02 and 0.03 grams should actually be 0.2 and 0.3 grams. Slightly different, I couldn't help thinking by myself how irresponsible incorrect dosage information is on a product this strong.
Anyway. Two days ago I felt courageous enough to surrender myself to the lady. My friend where I stay at the moment, went to his bedroom to watch some tv. I told him I was going to take the Salvia. He asked me if I wanted him to stay with me but I told him I would be ok. I read over and over again that a sitter is required with Salvia but I had read the same thing about LSD, mushrooms, Ayahuasca and I took all those by myself the first time and never had any need for a sitter. He left his bedroom door slightly open so he could hear it if anything went wrong.
I sat down in my favorite chair and carefully weighted about .2 grams of Salvia on my scale and filled up my waterpipe. I sat back, took the pipe, lit her up and inhaled all of it in one take. While lighting it up, I noticed the Salvia reacting when the heat was very high. No smoke did escape and I managed to take it all in (practicing with some good Nepal hashiesh the week before probably helped). I kept the smoke in my lungs for about 30 seconds and I exhaled. I did feel something but nothing like what I read about. Since I was going for a full blown experience, I started to fill up the pipe again with the rest of the package, probably a little over .2 grams. Again I inhaled everything in one take, I kept in the smoke and sat back and started to count. Then everything started to become bizarre, and that's an understatement.
Reality was becoming something entirely different, and so real that the reality I was used to, was non existent. Where the majority of my trips involve an expansion of my perception of reality, this trip was the opposite, it felt like a narrowing of reality. The house where I was in, was somehow seperating itself from ordinary reality. This was apparent through feelings and very strong and convincing hallucinations. I remember vaguely that I looked out of the window and saw some sort of rippling next to the house. At one moment, I felt me and my chair slowly turning backward. After about 180 degrees, I entered an entire different world. the chair was now upside down and while it turned, I felt like I ripped through some sort of layer. The chair continued to turn and I saw a massive place with maybe milions of creatures doing some sort of celebration or worshipping. Then the chair turned back to its original position and I was back in the house. Something was trying to keep me there and I had the feeling to basically get the hell out of the house. I tried to get away, one moment I was sitting in the chair, the next second I was on the other side of the room, touching the couch and wondering if it was back to normal. The next moment I would be in the hallway, trying to get to the front door but I stayed in one place, I ran in one place like in a nightmare. Then in an instance, the hallway became normal and I saw the opportunity to run. I started for the frontdoor when my friend took my arm and told me to calm down and everything was ok. This moment was one of the weirdest, in one memory, I saw my friend holding my arm. In another memory that seemd to happen at the same moment, I saw the hallway like some sort of distorted tunnel with hundreds of creatures trying to stop me from crossing the hallway, reaching for me from above.
Then I snapped back into reality and looked in the laughing face of my friend. One of the first things I noticed, was that my pants where wet. A quick look in the living room told me I had somehow managed to push over the waterpipe and spill all the water over myself. The first words out of my mouth where 'never again'. My friend told me he heard some strange noises from the living room, like someone was tearing down the curtains. He went to look and saw me trying to get to the window like a madman, in the proces pushing over the waterpipe. Then I started to walk around the house, he noticed how I was touching stuff like I was not sure if it was real or not. Then I started to walk fast to the frontdoor, he talked to me but I completely ignored him. I told him later that the first time I realized he was there in the room with me, was at the end of the trip. When I tried to run to the frontdoor, he hold me back with my belt, perfectly giving way to my nightmare of moving in one place. I remember I got scared at that time and my friend told me the look in my face was one of horror, I looked completely lost.
Wow, intense experience for the five lousy minutes it lasted. When I now look at the remaining package of Salvia, I'm filled with respect instantly. The next time I will try this, I will make sure I have a sitter with me all the time. Also I will make sure to give him instructions, don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't try to hold me back. Just follow me along and make sure I don't hurt myself. The period where my friend helt me back, turned a trip of confusion, into a nightmare. I can remember that just before I snapped out of the trip, I saw my friend like some kind of demon, he was the one who was trying to keep me in a place I didn't want to be, maybe things would have been different if I had the chance of going outside.
Anyway
Looking for tips/input for my next trip.
Xoch
Been away for a while. Moved back to my country of birth, the Netherlands. For anyone interested, here is my first Salvia experience.
Short version:
Put .2 grams in my favorite waterpipe, smoked it in one toke, filled her up again with .2 grams, exhaled, inhaled again. Found myself back at the other side of the house while my friend tried to stop me from running through the front door.
Long version:
Since I first read about Salvia, I knew I was going to do it someday. A couple of weeks back I got two packs of 15x Salvia. That night I read the instructions on the package: take 0.02 grams for a mild trip, 0.03 for a heavy trip. Very carefully I dropped a little bit of the stuff in my waterpipe and smoked it. Nothing happened, I didn't feel anything at all. I refilled right away with a slightly higher dose and took it down as well. I felt a strange sensation, my consciousness was different, trippy, and my reality seemd to become smaller, it felt like the only thing that was real, was the room I was in. No hallucinations and this feeling went away after a minute or so.
I decided to read up others experiences first before doing a higher dose and I called the smartshop about the dosage advice on the package. The guy told me, the 0.02 and 0.03 grams should actually be 0.2 and 0.3 grams. Slightly different, I couldn't help thinking by myself how irresponsible incorrect dosage information is on a product this strong.
Anyway. Two days ago I felt courageous enough to surrender myself to the lady. My friend where I stay at the moment, went to his bedroom to watch some tv. I told him I was going to take the Salvia. He asked me if I wanted him to stay with me but I told him I would be ok. I read over and over again that a sitter is required with Salvia but I had read the same thing about LSD, mushrooms, Ayahuasca and I took all those by myself the first time and never had any need for a sitter. He left his bedroom door slightly open so he could hear it if anything went wrong.
I sat down in my favorite chair and carefully weighted about .2 grams of Salvia on my scale and filled up my waterpipe. I sat back, took the pipe, lit her up and inhaled all of it in one take. While lighting it up, I noticed the Salvia reacting when the heat was very high. No smoke did escape and I managed to take it all in (practicing with some good Nepal hashiesh the week before probably helped). I kept the smoke in my lungs for about 30 seconds and I exhaled. I did feel something but nothing like what I read about. Since I was going for a full blown experience, I started to fill up the pipe again with the rest of the package, probably a little over .2 grams. Again I inhaled everything in one take, I kept in the smoke and sat back and started to count. Then everything started to become bizarre, and that's an understatement.
Reality was becoming something entirely different, and so real that the reality I was used to, was non existent. Where the majority of my trips involve an expansion of my perception of reality, this trip was the opposite, it felt like a narrowing of reality. The house where I was in, was somehow seperating itself from ordinary reality. This was apparent through feelings and very strong and convincing hallucinations. I remember vaguely that I looked out of the window and saw some sort of rippling next to the house. At one moment, I felt me and my chair slowly turning backward. After about 180 degrees, I entered an entire different world. the chair was now upside down and while it turned, I felt like I ripped through some sort of layer. The chair continued to turn and I saw a massive place with maybe milions of creatures doing some sort of celebration or worshipping. Then the chair turned back to its original position and I was back in the house. Something was trying to keep me there and I had the feeling to basically get the hell out of the house. I tried to get away, one moment I was sitting in the chair, the next second I was on the other side of the room, touching the couch and wondering if it was back to normal. The next moment I would be in the hallway, trying to get to the front door but I stayed in one place, I ran in one place like in a nightmare. Then in an instance, the hallway became normal and I saw the opportunity to run. I started for the frontdoor when my friend took my arm and told me to calm down and everything was ok. This moment was one of the weirdest, in one memory, I saw my friend holding my arm. In another memory that seemd to happen at the same moment, I saw the hallway like some sort of distorted tunnel with hundreds of creatures trying to stop me from crossing the hallway, reaching for me from above.
Then I snapped back into reality and looked in the laughing face of my friend. One of the first things I noticed, was that my pants where wet. A quick look in the living room told me I had somehow managed to push over the waterpipe and spill all the water over myself. The first words out of my mouth where 'never again'. My friend told me he heard some strange noises from the living room, like someone was tearing down the curtains. He went to look and saw me trying to get to the window like a madman, in the proces pushing over the waterpipe. Then I started to walk around the house, he noticed how I was touching stuff like I was not sure if it was real or not. Then I started to walk fast to the frontdoor, he talked to me but I completely ignored him. I told him later that the first time I realized he was there in the room with me, was at the end of the trip. When I tried to run to the frontdoor, he hold me back with my belt, perfectly giving way to my nightmare of moving in one place. I remember I got scared at that time and my friend told me the look in my face was one of horror, I looked completely lost.
Wow, intense experience for the five lousy minutes it lasted. When I now look at the remaining package of Salvia, I'm filled with respect instantly. The next time I will try this, I will make sure I have a sitter with me all the time. Also I will make sure to give him instructions, don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't try to hold me back. Just follow me along and make sure I don't hurt myself. The period where my friend helt me back, turned a trip of confusion, into a nightmare. I can remember that just before I snapped out of the trip, I saw my friend like some kind of demon, he was the one who was trying to keep me in a place I didn't want to be, maybe things would have been different if I had the chance of going outside.
Anyway
Looking for tips/input for my next trip.
Xoch
