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Cakes and Casings


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#1 BradJ

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 04:14 PM

Hi, I know this has been talked about a million times, I've read all the archive stuff about it, but I just had a couple more questions about the differences.

I recently took 3 1/2 pints and made them into casings, and 6 1/2 pints into cakes. The cakes have just flushed for the second time, the casings for the first, and the results have been very different. The casings seem to produce a lot more mushrooms, but much less bulky than the cakes. The cakes seem to grow much fatter kids. Could this be because I didn't put much substrate into the casings? I probably put about an inch worth of substrate, then 3/4 of an inch coir/verm mix. Any other reason why the casing shrooms are so much less bulky? Also, the 2nd cake flushes seem thicker than the first, so I'm hoping that will be the same for the casings.

Should I ever dunk a casing, or just rehydrate it?

Oh one more thing, should I dunk the cakes after every flush, or every other flush?

Thanks a lot.

#2 waylitjim

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 05:33 PM

Hi Brad,

Seems like you're ready to move onto some bulk subs.
The same rules apply. Just like you were fruting grains.
Only difference is the substrate is straw or manure (whichever you can find)
In general, grains like rye and wbs should be used as spawn.
Meaning you use the colonized grain to mix with straw or manure.
Once you go this route, you will notice bigger yields and meatier mushrooms.
You can do this in tubs or in a humidified grow chamber.
Cakes are fun too, but if you're going to fruit grains, instead try spawning to a bulk substrate.

You can just rehydrate the casing layer with a spray bottle rather than dunking.
And for the cakes, feel them in between flushes. Are the moist or dry?
Dunk the cakes once the start to feel dry, usually in-between flushes.
Good luck, and read this too http://mycotopia.net...read.php?t=4767 ;)
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#3 Hippie3

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:07 PM

In general, grains like rye and wbs should be used as spawn.


i beg to differ,
brf [cakes crumbled to powder] makes great spawn
and bypasses many pitfalls endemic to grains
such as endospores, wet spot bacteria, etc.
a few 'PF' cakes, crumbled finely,
can spawn huge amounts of straw and/or manure
and will yield every bit as much as any grain.
that is truly one of the great things about cakes,
they are so flexible,
able to fruit intact, invitro, cased or used as spawn
or all of the above-
a cake can get its' 1st flush invitro,
be birthed and dunked
then flushed in a chamber
then crumbled
and spawned to a straw log/basket
for still more action.
try that with rye or wbs
;)

#4 Hippie3

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:14 PM

re- " Could this be because I didn't put much substrate into the casings?"

yes.

re- "Should I ever dunk a casing, or just rehydrate it?"

either, casings can be dunked.

re- "should I dunk the cakes after every flush, or every other flush?"

every other is usually enough

#5 Lazlo

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:22 PM

I'm guessing this thread is why Rodger posted the sticky. LOL! I agree with Hip on the spawning situation. Especially for people not familiar or experienced with this hobby. Strangely, i've had occurances with liquid cultures that were infected with bacteria that took to brf and didn't do so well with whole grains. Strange but true.

#6 BradJ

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:48 PM

Thanks a lot. I noticed the casings were very dry since I couldn't water them after the pinnings. It was a great flush, but I think they'd have been thicker and healthier if I'd have injected water in the sides or something. Seemed like they all started opening when the casing got to be a bit too dry. Also I put not nearly enough substrate in I think. Thanks for all the answers.

#7 Guest_Peter Cottontail_*

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 02:08 PM

"I'm guessing this thread is why Rodger posted the sticky"

No, just a similar title. We need to be on the same page with terminology.

The casing layer need not ever dry out. Even after pinning, you can water the casing between the pins if your strain tends to abort when misted. Some strains/substrains do, others do not. Bulk substrates respond very well to dunking.

"Any other reason why the casing shrooms are so much less bulky?"

What did you spawn the broken up cakes into? If you simply cased the crumbled cakes, that explains the poor performance. You forced the mycelium to colonize the same substrate twice without adding additional food. It had to eat twice, therefore there was less food available for fruiting. The casing layer will help provide moisture to sustain the flush, but not nutrients. As hip said above, cakes make great spawn to manure, straw, etc.
RR

#8 sgt. rock

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:30 PM

i beg to differ,
brf [cakes crumbled to powder] makes great spawn
and bypasses many pitfalls endemic to grains
such as endospores, wet spot bacteria, etc.
a few 'PF' cakes, crumbled finely,
can spawn huge amounts of straw and/or manure
;)


"and/or manure"? So you can use crumbled PF cakes to spawn manure without using straw? Manure alone or manure mixed with what? Just spawn and case w/ verm/coir?

#9 waylitjim

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:46 PM

Manure and straw are both bulk substrates.
You can spawn to one or a mixture of both.
As far as casing, what ever you prefer.
Consider peatmoss rather than coir.

#10 waylitjim

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:59 PM

In general, grains like rye and wbs should be used as spawn.


i beg to differ, brf [cakes crumbled to powder] makes great spawn and bypasses many pitfalls endemic to grains


Hip I agree with you, what I meant was grains are better used
as spawn for a bulk substrate rather than cased and fruited.

I'm a big fan of BRF to spawn bulk subs. ;)

#11 sgt. rock

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 01:09 AM

Manure and straw are both bulk substrates.
You can spawn to one or a mixture of both.
As far as casing, what ever you prefer.
Consider peatmoss rather than coir.


How do you (or point me to a post/thread explaining how to) spawn to manure only?
I asume were talking about the kind you buy in 50 lb bags at a nursery,right?Not actual cow patties or shit you scooped up in a cow pasture,right?
or will either work?do you pre-sterilize it in the oven,add water till moist,layer it 4" deep in a tray,ect.Then spawn w/ crumbled PF cakes and case w/ peatmoss or whatever.?do you need to cover it w/ plastic wrap,ect.? Please explain spawning manure alone w/ crumbled PF cakes

#12 Hippie3

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 04:48 AM

you really need to learn how to use the archives and the search engine, hm.
i'm not going to go thru explaining everything to you three times
like usual.

#13 Hippie3

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 05:21 AM

using powdered brf cakes as bulk spawn
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#14 sgt. rock

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 05:27 AM

you really need to learn how to use the archives and the search engine, hm.
i'm not going to go thru explaining everything to you three times
like usual.


just tell me the term to describe spawning to manure in trays,ect. to get me pointed in the right direction. is it in "poo tek" or bulk growing or do i type in "spawning manure"?

#15 Hippie3

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 05:31 AM

i did point you in the right direction,
go read the link i posted.
that's all you're getting from me
until you do .

#16 aettis

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

Lets say somebody has room to put two tupperware bins on the bottom of his fruiting chamber. The F.C. has 5 avaible shelving units. The two bottom shelves would have like 20 gallon rubbermaid bins lined with perlite for humidity. Could one put the lid on these rubbermaid tubs and fruit cakes (i.e. the perlite humidification for the cakes humidity, while the actually fruiting chamber around the bins could be at 85% humidity and fruit casings? Could it be done? Casings and Cakes at the same time?

-Aettis

#17 motograter

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 06:56 PM

Sure, I did that with my first grow... a few cakes, and 2 casings. No problems what so ever....

#18 python

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:14 PM

anything can be done aettis


i recommend doing them seperate

#19 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 08:35 PM

Casings will work at higher humidity. I would just suggest you watch them closely. Contam rates might tend to be highter with cases + higher humidity + stale air from crowded conditions.

#20 Hippie3

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:36 PM

cakes will dry out way too fast at 85% humidity,
they thrive at 100% rh.
given your setup
i'd place the cakes right on the perlite
[on a foil or lid]
in their rubbermaids




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