Mescaline extraction questions [merged]
Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:05 PM
a)Which species of strain yields the highest amount of mesc? I'm not sure which type to buy, and how much of it, regarding dosage.
b)I've seen teks using only the cactus skin and some using the entire cuttings. Which would you all recommend? I have the option of buying cactus cuttings or the dried skin so I'd like to know how to get more bang for my buck..
c)Does anyone have any information how much mescaline is in an amount of cactus, be it ft long cuttings, grams of dried skin, etc?
Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:20 PM
If it is mescaline you want then I suggest you try 15 dried grams of T. bridgesii (with the vascular core removed). Interestingly enough it has been reported that with a 2.5% mescaline carrying L. williamsii there equaled 400mg mescaline in 16 dried grams. I am personally convinced that T. bridgesii has a higher and more consistent concentration of mescaline than almost any cultivated L. williamsii, and in fact is exceeding 400mg of mescaline in 15 grams as I described above (without vasuclar core or tissue within it). T. pachanoi has nothing on T. bridgesii. As for T. peruvianus, well the identification issue is still one that leaves much to be desired.
The highest concentrations are found in the green flesh directly under the skin with smaller amounts present in the associated white tissue that surrounds the core. The skin contains no mescaline. The woody core is thought to contain no mescaline either, but this researcher has not yet verified this.
The cactus is commonly reported to contain very roughly an average of 1% mescaline by dry weight. While it has been widely reported that it is virtually impossible to accurately guess the amount of mescaline present in a given plant, this researcher has found the so called, “wide variance” in concentrations to be in error. While not enough samples have yet been tested to issue statistically significant results, it has been found that each foot of cactus seems to contain very roughly 150 - 200 mg of mescaline. Of course, this is only the roughest of estimates. However, it should be remembered that while wide variances in concentrations do not seem to exist to the extent commonly reported, the cactus is a living organism and as such, no two plants will be exactly the same.
Here's a good method for preparing fresh cactus.
Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:52 PM
Posted 16 March 2006 - 12:35 AM
Everyone knows that the different "peruvianus" being sold all over the place aren't the same. So what are they? The majority of the ones raised, grown, and sold in the USA are thought to be T. Cuzcoensis, a cactus containing very little alkaloids. This includes most popular vendor's peruvianus. Then, there are the different species that entho vendors in Peru ship to the US claimed to be T. Peruvianus. It is thought that these, often reasonably potent ones are T. Macrogonus, and thats what Icaro's pictures have been identified as.
Posted 16 March 2006 - 09:02 PM
Posted 17 March 2006 - 03:56 AM
In the meantime, you could purchase dried flesh, of known, remarkable potency, to guarantee pleasant results with your first extraction experience... When I first started, I bought 12 live cuttings for well over $150, and only planted about 3... 1 is still growing strong and the rest produced a very small amount of mescaline that only gave me a few trips, in which only one was very remarkable... However, I have extracted dried cacti flesh and gotten much more mescaline... Now I just grow the specimen I have, and buy enough dried cacti to supply my occasional mescaline dose... I am not suggesting you always choose dried cacti flesh for extraction, but it is much better to extract the ready to extract material, rather than kill a live plant for a mild experience, at best, in most cases... Also, BTW, icaros dried torch flesh is a legal incense in the US, so only the extraction would bee illegal, not ordering it...
Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:06 AM
Also, BTW, icaros dried torch flesh is a legal incense in the US, so only the extraction would bee illegal, not ordering it...
Good info PB. For those considering importing dried cactus flesh, do so with caution because there is still risk involved. I've ordered from Icaro before and had no problems. If your package was stopped at customs with suspicion you could have some trouble. In the eyes of the U.S Govt, if it looks like dry cactus, and it tests positive for mescaline...than it's peyote. It would be difficult to prove otherwise.
There are vendors in the U.S that sell dry flesh. It's just a matter of trusting the supplier. Otherwise, just start growing your own cacti. Trichocereus cacti grow fast and they're alot of fun and legal too. If anyone's interested, PM me for one of the best U.S vendors specializing in live rare and exotic cacti.
Posted 17 March 2006 - 12:39 PM
There are several different methods of increasing the concentrations of alkaloids in most if not all species of Cactus. One of the main defenses of Cacti is to increase the production of protective alkaloids in response to numerous external stresses. The growing Cactus plant can be "stressed" in a number of ways to help increase the concentration of alkaloids prior to harvest. It should be noted that, since Cacti have a slow metabolism, it may take an entire growing season of stress to significantly affect alkaloid levels. Here are some of the most common and widely tested methods:
Shade - There have been several reports that leaving live, or cut Tricocereus in the shade for several months prior to harvesting does increase the percentage of alkaloids in the tissues of the plant. It is also common in Mexico and South America to leave cut Cacti in large covered stacks for some time prior to being sold. There may be a good reason for that practice.
Excess Sun and Heat - Too much Sun or heat will most definitely stress a live Cactus. It must be realized however, that increasing the alkaloids through stressing will greatly affect the plants growth rate, and might just kill it. Cactus can and do get sunburned, which can be fatal.
Nutrient level variations - Different formulas of fertilizers will affect the growth rate, and therefore the alkaloid mix and percentages. Very high Nitrogen levels in the soil would help to draw water out of the cactus, and promote stress. Use caution as too much Nitrogen will burn your plant. Remember though, a fast growing Cactus is also lower in alkaloids per volume.
Mechanical stress - A much ignored method of significantly increasing alkaloid buildup. The Cactus is cut or gouged in several places to simulate predator damage. The stem can also be girdled by wire, twisted or bent. Care should be taken when penetrating the skin, use sterile techniques to minimize the chance of infection. Although infection would be a major stress on the plant, it would probably die before any useful effects were manifest. Stressing has been practiced on Marijuana for millennia in certain parts of the world, to increase potency.
Watering stress - Depriving the intended victim of water is the most widespread method of trying to increase the alkaloid content. Many people advise to buy your Cactus at least one growing season in advance, and then let them sit, without water, until they are ready to harvest.
Chemical doping - There has been some pioneering work in this area done by Adam Gottlieb.
Increasing the levels of the precursors that lead to mescaline has proven to be a relatively quick and effective way to significantly increase the level of mescaline in a Cactus. There are three major precursors to mescaline, namely dopa, tyramine and dopamine. During mescaline synthesis in the plant, tyrosine is broken down into tyramine and dopa. These then combine to form dopamine, which is later converted to nor-mescaline, and of course mescaline.
It is possible to take advantage of this synthesis route, and use it to vastly increase the mescaline content of the Cactus that will be harvested.
This method can be used successfully on any mescaline bearing Cacti. The steps are as follows:
1. Withhold water from the plant 2 weeks prior to doping. This helps the plant to absorb any injected material more readily.
2. Prepare a saturated solution of free-base dopamine in a .05 N solution of HCL. If dopamine is not available a second best alternative is to use a mixture of tyramine and dopa.
3. Inject approximately 5cc of the solution, half towards the bottom of the plant by the roots. Inject the other half into the green tissue at the base of the plant, and in several other spots up the stem. Do this slowly ,carefully, leaving the needle in place for a few seconds to allow absorption.
4. Wait 4 to 8 weeks before harvest to let the additives metabolize and convert to mescaline. I would not stress the plant during this period, as an actively growing plant is necessary for efficient metabolism.
5. The harvest can be delayed further and a series of booster injections can be given every 6 - 8 weeks to bolster alkaloid levels even more.
Unfortunately many of these precursor compounds are hard to come by or controlled.
Posted 30 March 2006 - 04:13 PM
Would I be better off getting "dried cactus skins" for about 1$ per gram(YIKES) Or getting the odds and ends bag from Bouncing bear Botanicals that is 3lbs wet whole cactus for 40$? Or mabey a link for cheaper dried skin would be gr8
Is the the extraction diffrent when the Alchy tech is used? do you get less pure mescaline?
Posted 30 March 2006 - 05:11 PM
Posted 30 March 2006 - 05:23 PM
Is the high not as good?
If its placed in Gel caps can you just eat more if its not as potent or is the high itself difrent?
I agree about the dry being better but I have lotsa time and not nearly as much money :) I was just woundering what 1 kilos of cactus would dry out to? The water contnet %
Posted 30 March 2006 - 06:24 PM
Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:10 AM
I have a friend who is interested in trying some mescaline, he's thinking about doing an extraction of san pedro-p.torch. He has found a supplier on e-bay for 1 kg dried cacti- It is sold as incense and so presumes it is the whole cacti and not just the more preferred outer skin. The price is cheap $130.
He has read many extraction texts from mycotopia and other forums and they seem to favour doing a base - acid extraction. Is this the best way to get biggest yields or just the simplist?
Also would any one who is experienced in chemistry check out his extraction procedure thus far...
Chemicals avalible- Methanol, Ethanol(de-natured), acetone, toulene, H2S04, naptha, caustic soda(lye) + all the household chems.
He read somewhere that reflux with methanol is the best extraction technique to get all of the essence out of the plant material. Methanol is readily avalible over here so....
In a homemade reflux-
Add enough methanol to cover powdered cacti. Heat in water bath at 65-70 c for a few hours. Then filter solution, seperate gunk, return to reflux and evap and collect methanol for another extraction or two. Collect together extractions and now...
Now he's a bit lost. Would it be best to acidify first, then de-fat with toulene and then basify with lye and extract with toulene again to get the free base. OR..... Is there no need to de-fat and so he could just basify and extract with toulene.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Sambo
Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:36 AM
Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:38 AM
Or just dry the methanol extract and dose it.
Posted 03 May 2006 - 11:30 AM
AFOAF purchased 1.75kg of green torch flesh from Peru for $99 plus shipping.
Posted 04 May 2006 - 05:36 AM
I don't think I'll bother de-fatting, i doesn't seem nessecary with this extraction.
I'm still going to use methanol to extract first as i've just bought 5 litres and it it'll be a shame not to use it.
Check out this web site www.thechemicalshop.co.uk
Is it me or shouldn't they be selling red phosphorus, iodine , nitric acid....to just anyone.
Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:14 AM
Depends on the laws of their country, in the US, it would be highly suspect and get you a knock at the door, in a day or two, if not followed home directly after the purchase...
Is it me or shouldn't they be selling red phosphorus, iodine , nitric acid....to just anyone.