Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Removing Tannins in Ayahuasca:jello: finished


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#1 rocketman

rocketman

    Mycotopiate

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,602 posts

Donator

Posted 16 March 2006 - 04:55 PM

I finally got around to using the 25g of mimosa hostilis root bark I had, a free sample I got.
I added the powdered bark to a mason jar and covered it with bottled water.
I let it sit overnight in the fridge.
The next day I noticed a seperation had occured.
There was alot of material on the bottom of the jar and the water above this layer was pinkish and fairly clear.
The following day I added the mixture to my crockpot and began the cooking process.
I found out my chances for having a successful brew was hit and miss with this amount of mhrb,
so I added about 50g of Diplopterys Caberana leaf, and enough bottled water to give me a cushion so I could sleep without worrying about burning the brew.
I added a shot of lime juice to the mix and let the brew cook in the crock for two and a half days.

At this time I took the brew and strained it through an old T shirt, and yes the shirt was clean :).
I poured the strained liquid back into the mason jar and put it back in the fridge.
The next day I looked at it and the seperation had occured once again.
I figured I would be in for a night of puking because of the tannins left behind.
I could have easily seperated the layers and lost the tannins, but I learned in doing so I would be tossing out lots of magic....
didnt want to do that so I would bite the bullet and prepare to hurl.

I was getting my stomach ready to partake of the brew, and headed to chat to burn some daylight.
Lucky for me, Hip was in there making a rare appearance.
He suggested I use either some powdered milk, or some gelatin to remove the tannins...without removing all the magic.
I did not have any powdered milk so jello it was.
I figured it couldnt hurt so I went for it.

I put the brew back in the crock and got it hot, adding the gelatin by the spoonful then stirring after each spoonful.
I honestly dont remember how many spoons it took but I do very well remember the reaction that occured.
The spoon got very very heavy.
I pulled it out and saw a chocolate syrup looking slime attached to the spoon.
When i say attached i mean steel wool to clean it off attached.
There was a slime ball, for lack of a better term that congealed unto itself inside the brew.
I took the crock and poured off the liquid into my jar.
The slime ball was easily avoided by holding it back with a spoon while i poured the liquid into the mason jar.
Just to satisfy my curiousity I put the brew back into the fridge to see what kind of seperation occured.......absolutely none!
No stratification whatsoever.
This meant I had a clean brew :)

I ended up with a large coffee cup full of liquid to drink, so I dosed my rue extract and downed the brew slowly.
I wont go into great detail about the experience other than to say it was beautiful and very insightful.
I only needed half the cup.
The truly amazing thing about the brew was how I have felt since drinking it.
I feel more in tune with my world and nature, and I feel great.
I think the brew is a wonderful medicine with an anti depressant effect like I have never experienced.
I have felt this way since drinking it. I will definitely make aya a regular part of my life now.
I feel strongly about this brew and its healing properties, and without the tannins its almost too easy.
No pain and lots of gain :)

Thanks to Hip for guiding me during this time, it is truly appreciated.
Your advice was right on. Gelatin tannin removal in aya is the way to go!

#2 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:00 PM

some gelatin to remove the tannins...without removing all the magic. I did not have any powdered milk so jello it was. I figured it couldnt hurt so I went for it.

I put the brew back in the crock and got it hot, adding the gelatin by the spoonful then stirring after each spoonful. I honestly dont remember how many spoons it took but I do very well remember the reaction that occured. The spoon got very very heavy. I pulled it out and saw a chocolate syrup looking slime attached to the spoon. When i say attached i mean steel wool to clean it off attached. There was a slime ball, for lack of a better term that congealed unto itself inside the brew. I took the crock and poured off the liquid into my jar. The slime ball was easily avoided by holding it back with a spoon while i poured the liquid into the mason jar. Just to satisfy my curiousity I put the brew back into the fridge to see what kind of seperation occured.......absolutely none! No stratification whatsoever. This meant I had a clean brew


awesome.
:bow:
i formatted your post a bit
to make reading easier.
btw any protein will work,
gelatin is nice as it's common
and nearly pure protein.

#3 I_am_me

I_am_me

    Odderator

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 2,228 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:12 PM

Where is a good place to get clear gelatin? Nice job. :)

#4 Gamera

Gamera

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 331 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:27 PM

I remember reading on the DMT World forums that activated charcoal might be used to similar effect but the chemistry was beyond me. Anyone with thoughts on that?

#5 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:31 PM

i'd rather eat jello.
the binding of tannins to proteins is old and basic practice
for wine and tea.
it's why the english add milk to tea,
why americans add cream to coffee,
and the french add finnings to their wines.

#6 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:33 PM

Where is a good place to get clear gelatin? Nice job. :)


i find knot's brand unflavored gelatin near the bullion cubes
at my grocery store

#7 phalanx

phalanx

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 609 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:16 AM

I pre-dissolved the gelatine in hot water before adding it to the hot mimosa brew. It made the brew turn milky and there was an immediate vast improvement in taste. There were no gum balls but there was lots of sediment in the finished dose, which I consumed with the liquid. I got a good trip from 10g mimosa with this method.

I know how hard it is to get rid of that gum from pots and spoons. Wire soap pads are the only things that will remove it!

Have you tried using gelatine, Hippie3?

#8 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:24 AM

why yes, of course,
else i would not have advised others to use it
these last few years.
it's just been difficult
getting folks to heed my advice.
;)
reading rocket's post has inspired me to brew a new batch,
i could use the lasting euphoria it leaves behind.
i'll see if i can get a few pix this time...
:reb:

#9 phalanx

phalanx

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 609 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

i'll see if i can get a few pix this time...
:reb:


kewl :)

#10 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:42 AM

unfortunately all i have on hand is syrian rue and challiponga
but it will needs suffice.

edit: spoke too soon,
down deep in my magic chest
i found some b.caapi and p.viridis too.
now we're cookin'....

#11 rocketman

rocketman

    Mycotopiate

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 4,602 posts

Donator

Posted 17 March 2006 - 12:01 PM

Phalanx, maybe the difference is adding the gelatin directly to the brew vs. pre dissolving it? Possibly and more likely, it is the amount of gelatin used. Hip, do you notice the "slime ball" effect?

#12 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 05:23 PM

not quite like you, no.
mine was mostly on the bottom of the pot.
but i did it like phalanx, by dissolving first.
i think i like your results better
so next time...

#13 adnauseam

adnauseam

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 28 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 08:32 PM

It's great to hear confirmation from others that gelatin works to remove some of the noxious stuff. I've recently did a 3-batch/3-week soak (no acid) and I'm reducing at the moment :D

On a similar topic, has anyone tried to make syrian rue crystals using the Salt and Vinegar method? Atleast I thought it was vinegar...

Cool stuff.:eusa_naug

#14 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:13 PM

In another post, Dagger reports that adding gelatin to a mimosa brew removes tannins (the reason for the vomiting). I would just like to comment on how incredibly true this is, and I believe that it is only fair to make this information more noticeable by giving it it's own post in this area of the forum. Gelatin bonds with tannins and polyphenols, turning them into a thick gummy substance that is easily removable from your brew. They actually use gelatin to reduce the astringency of red wines (the astrigent taste being caused by tannins).
In a dream, 28 grams of knox gelatin (readily available at any grocery store) was dissolved into warm water, and then poured into a fresh brew of 100 grams mimosa prepared with muriatic acid. Instantly, over 4 ounces of disgusting purple muck formed, which was easily removable due to its incredible density. The brew turned a light pink color, and produced NO nausea. The terrible taste was also reduced to a considerable degree (from disgusting to mildly unpleasant). Although I am sure there are more precise ways to go about doing this, it was definately a step in the right direction.
I have only dreamed of this once, but having a fairly weak stomach, it seems as though this may be the answer I have been looking for in my dreams. I would like to say however, that strange circumstances arose during my dream...in this dream, 4 people consumed the brew (approximately 8 grams each), and only 2 had noticeable effects. 1 of these 2 went absolutely insane and begged to have his pulse checked, thought he was dying etc. There is a possibility that in the dream the gelatin that remained in the brew caused the dmt to be suspended in only a certain part of the brew. Crushed syrian rue was used by the dreamer who temporarily lost his mind, the others (who were rather displeased by the lack of effects) dreamt of .33 grams syrian rue extract each. None of us are sure exactly what happened, but the power of the brew for the one dreamer (who experienced no nausea except for a desperate self-induced vomiting session) gives me much hope that this method when further refined will be the cure-all I have been looking for.
I am one to believe that it is not absolutely necessary to vomit during a session, although there may be benefits. I understand that there are many who believe the purging to be an integral part of the experience, but I also know that there are many (including myself) who want nothing more than to reduce the unpleasant physical effects as much as possible. Premature vomiting has ruined many nights, and I have had many dreams with the pure substance in which no spirit seemed to mind my lack of nausea.
If anyone has any experience with this method, please share some insight. Dagger, I would be interested in any more information and experience you have with this method. Also, if anyone has a guess as to what happened with our brew I am up for considering any possibility. Please do not turn this post into a large-scale arguement as to whether or not the purge is necessary, I'm sure we can do that somewhere else.


seems word is finally spreading...

#15 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:15 PM

On a similar topic, has anyone tried to make syrian rue crystals using the Salt and Vinegar method? Atleast I thought it was vinegar...

Cool stuff.:eusa_naug


might try=

Mix 25 powdered rue with 750ml water with 30 drops of HCL. Put it in a glass container, microwave till hot (not boiling) let stand for 24 hours, filter off the sludge, boil down to a small amount then evaporate off the rest. Should have reasonably pure harmine/harmaline.



#16 phalanx

phalanx

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 609 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:45 PM

When I added the dissolved gelatin to a sample of cooled brew, gummy stuff immediately precipitated and fell to the bottom leaving a pink liquid. It was quite cool to see. The effects are different for the different methods. Don't know which is the best or if they are all equal.

Hippie3, do you add the dissolved gelatin to hot or cooled brew, and at what stage of the brewing process?

#17 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:18 AM

A nice tip for ayahuasca is to use a quart jar, get some boiling hot water with the right amount of acid, I use phosphoric, but I assume you will use lemon juice, pour it in the quart jar, then load in your aya herbs (you are grinding them right?), then seal it, when it cools it will form a vacuum seal which I guess helps break down the cell walls of the leaves so the alkaloids can escape easier then let it sit in the fridge for a week to a month. The liquid will turn into a very beautiful dark amber color with the herbs sitting on the bottom, strain (leave as much of the herb on the bottom as you can) and simmer the liquid until it evaps down into a reasonable amount (about 3 or 4 gulps is what i like), cool and drink.



#18 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:19 AM

Hippie3, do you add the dissolved gelatin to hot or cooled brew, and at what stage of the brewing process?


so far, hot, right at the end of the brewing after the first strain thru
tshirt

#19 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 03:27 PM

another report i found-

y superballs do you mean that big blob that forms when you dump the gelatin solution right in?

heres what i observed reguarding this:

when i dumped the gelatin solution directly into the huasca it formed that blob that eventually settled on the bottom and hardened into a plastic hamburger thing upon drying. When i stirred the huasca is a circular motion and slowly poured in the solution a bunch of gelatin particulates formed and wouldnt clump into the ball, though it did settle into a plate shape on the bottom.

The qualitative difference between the two huasca i observed was that the ball of gelatin huasca [fast dump] was clearer and appeared to be much more potent (dont ask my how i know this, its too hard to explain), the [slowly] poured in [and stirred] gelatin huasca was darker and didnt appear to be as potent.


so maybe it's the stirring that made mine difference than rocket's ?

#20 phalanx

phalanx

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 609 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 03:39 PM

Its hard to say without pics. There is adding it dissolved or as granules, and whether the brew is hot or cool. Maybe the volume of the brew is an issue too. Lots of variables to explore.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!