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Removing Tannins in Ayahuasca:jello: finished


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#21 Hippie3

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 05:49 PM

i just figured hot
would help the gelatin dissolve.
exactly how many grams to use per liter
is still an unsolved variable.
since precipitation is immediate and rapid
seems sensible to add by pouring/stirring in
until precipitation stops.

#22 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 11:04 AM

It is strange that you got gummy stuff precipitating out. That didn't happen with my method, although the pot was coated with gum after reduction.

#23 Hippie3

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:13 PM

When I added the dissolved gelatin to a sample of cooled brew, gummy stuff immediately precipitated and fell to the bottom leaving a pink liquid.


It is strange that you got gummy stuff precipitating out. That didn't happen with my method, although the pot was coated with gum after reduction.


you have me confused ?

#24 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:09 PM

When adding gelatine to hot brew, it turned milky with no precipitation.

When adding it to cooled brew, gummy stuff fell out of solution but there was no milkiness.

That is why I thought it was strange that you got gummy precipitation when adding to hot brew. I thought it would just have turned milky. Was the brew boiling? Maybe the gelatine curdled.

#25 Hippie3

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:14 PM

no, wasn't boiling.
not even that 'hot' after straining it off,
still pretty warm tho'. hadn't been cooling long.
precise measurement of both temperature
and amount seem in order.

#26 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 04:09 PM

Maybe the concentration of the brew is an issue. Maybe tannin acidity helps keep all this gum in solution, and when tannin is gone the gum precipitates below a certain temperature and/or volume of solution. I added gelatin at the point of greatest volume and had used plenty of brewing water.

I searched for my original gelatin experiments which I posted but cant find them. Maybe they got wiped in the last site crash. :(

In my first test, I had 600ml brew water from 10g mimosa with a bit of lemon juice. I dissolved gelatin at rate of 1g per 20ml hot water. Brew was about 70-80*C. I added gelatine solution slowly, stirring all the time. Used 5g gelatine in total. No precipitation at first but pot was covered thickly in gum after reduction.

In second test, it was only 400ml with everything else the same. Still no immediate precipitation.

#27 Hippie3

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 04:58 PM

ah,
you used much less gelatin that i.
didn't weigh it unfortunately,
but used most of a boxful
so that's about 60-70 grams versus your 5.

#28 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:11 PM

I think that explains your precipitation. :) I stop adding the gelatine when the whitening effect becomes barely noticable. I take it as a sign that there is little or no free tannin left to react with.

I have a few more interesting facts. I recently tried using gelatine with vine and chacruna.

When adding gelatine to the hot vine brew, there was NO whitening at all and no reduction of bitterness. I doubt there is no tannin in vine. Maybe it is already bound to alkaloids or something, and gelatine only binds to free tannic acid. The bitterness of vine must be due to the alkaloids themselves or other stuff. There was no gummy precipitation after reduction.

There was a nice whitening effect when adding gelatine to hot chacruna brew, and a huge improvement in taste. A gummy layer kept forming on the surface during the reduction which I kept scooping off. It was way more than what usually forms.

Did your brew even turn milky?

#29 Hippie3

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:16 PM

i think maybe you aren't using enough.
i saw a post on aya.com
where a guy was using about 30 g of gelatin in a liter

#30 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:19 PM

I think that is excessive. There was hardly any room for improvement in taste after 5g.

#31 Hippie3

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:28 PM

it may be excessive.
can't see any harm if so though.
in another post i saw where a guy
used so much that his brew actually
set-up like jell-o is supposed to.
he claimed it tasted great.

#32 phalanx

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:38 PM

Maybe the huge amount of gelatine saturated the solution and caused the gum to precipitate. If so, it would be good to get rid of the gum that way. I worried that some dmt was stuck in the gum left in the pot after reduction. There should be minimal loss if it is removed when the brew is dilute, and the pot should be easier to clean! Gelatine seems to remove both tannin and gum.

Any dmt chemists got an insight into all this goofing about with jello?

#33 Elf Salvation

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 03:22 PM

Gravy
:heart:

Elf

#34 I_am_me

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 08:22 PM

I watched the documentary on ayahuasca you posted a torrent for Hip. It was amazing and has driven me to brew something within the next month. I'll be using rue and virdis, a crockpot and lemon juice. I hope I get humble and adventurous enough to actually drink it. ;)

#35 lyqwyd

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 09:54 PM

could u repost that link by any chance? i searched for the thread with it but couldnt find it....gracias

#36 lyqwyd

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 10:25 PM

found it!

search.suprnova.org search for blueberry

#37 Hippie3

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:31 PM

i haven't forgotten my brew,
here's my ingredients
~6.5 g syrian rue and ~60 g. chaliponga, (Diplopterys cabrerana)
~30 g. p. viridis and ~55 g. b. caapi
i always brew strong, multiple doses
to avoid duds.

syrian rue, before grinding
DSCN0781.JPG
here is about 6.5 grams of ground syrian rue
DSCN0794.JPG
into the crockpot
DSCN0795.JPG
DSCN0796.JPG

the chaliponga leaves whole
DSCN0782.JPG

crumble first by hand
DSCN0798.JPG

after crumbling
DSCN0797.JPG

into the coffee grinder next
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DSCN0800.JPG

after grinding
DSCN0801.JPG

into the crockpot
DSCN0802.JPG

next, the viridis [chacruna]
pre-grind
DSCN0803.JPG
post-grind
DSCN0804.JPG

now the caapi vine [yage]
DSCN0805.JPG

pre-soak caapi in hot water to soften it for shredding
retain water for use in the brew/crockpot
DSCN0806.JPG

that's where i am now,
letting the caapi soak.
here's the lemon juice to acidify the water.
DSCN0807.JPG

once the caapi's ready
i'll add a few more pix
as the actual brewing process begins.
:bow:

#38 Hillbilly

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 08:08 PM

I've always wanted to try this. What's it like ? Is it worth all the trouble ?

#39 Hippie3

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 08:37 PM

only one way to find out...
;)

#40 Hippie3

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 09:25 PM

P.S.
- i had to pc some mycro jars tonight anyway
so i decided to try that method mentioned above
sealed caapi into a quart jar full of water
and will pc it to create a vacuum.
we'll see if that softens it up much.
more pix tomorrow.
:bow:




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