Removing Tannins in Ayahuasca:jello: finished
Posted 23 March 2006 - 09:44 PM
Posted 23 March 2006 - 11:13 PM
less the caapi
are soaking at room temp
pending addition of the caapi.
need to find ph strips to get a reading
but fairly confident it's close to good.
had to use local water which is fairly alkaline
so extra acid helps.
Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:37 AM
I noticed that the ground leaves arent half as fine as i get them with my coffee grinder. Do you grind less on purpose? I go 30 seconds.
That amount of herbs would be 4 doses for me!
Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:41 AM
not as coarse as it looks, mostly powder
but some always is less fine.
i figure 3 doses,
drink 1 and see how it goes.
call for reinforcements.
Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:44 PM
dl mickey hart's planet drum into my 'pod
got it playing shuffle/repeat as i work on my brew
the caapi came out of the pc pretty soft and pliable,
am easily shredding it by hand into thin strips
then using scissors to chop them into slivers/splinters.
the brew in the quart looked pretty strong
more pix in a bit,
once i finish chopping caapi.
the music will be my guide.
think i'll light up some incense...
Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:13 PM
The amount of gelatin to use should be based off of the amount of tannins that are extracted. I believe this is most useful with MHRB as an acid or MeOH extraction as it will yeild about 28-29% tannins by weight of the starting material. You want to use a 1:1 tannin:gelatin ratio, or a little less gelatin, too much gelatin and it will suspend in the solution and turn it milky. I don't know the tannin content of vine, Chacruna or Chalaponga, but I'm sure its not nearly as much as MHRB. The red coloration in MHRB extractions is the tannins. Here's my findings on MHRB and tannin precip, this is taken from e-dot forums:
exactly how many grams to use per liter
is still an unsolved variable.
Preciptation of tannins (Fining as it called in wine making):
Fining uses gelatin to precipitate tannins out of solutions. Tannins will complex with metals, proteins, and Alkaloids forming a polymer that is insoluable to the aqueous solution and will fall out (sticking to anything it comes into contact with). The pH ranges are:
Iron - pH 3 - 5
Alkaloids - pH 4 - 6
Protein - pH 3 - 6
Above and below these levels, they will still precip out, but possibly not as effectively. Starting with a MeOH extraction of material (MHRB for example); you need to first determine the amount of tannins in the extract. For this example (with MeOH) you should extract about 29% tannins by weight of starting material (MHRB). A gelatin solution should be prepared that has about this amount of gelatin or a little less disolved in H2O (just enough HOT H2O to disolve the gelatin). Pure gelatin is prefered so as not to contaminate the extraction with unnecessary compounds. The addition of a small amount of dilute acid to the MeOH extraction would be usefull to give the solution a bit of acidity. Then, the addition of the gelatin solution to the MeOH will precipitate out a red polymer that when removed from the solution will solidify into a hard solid ball after being squeezed of MeOH solution. The MeOH will now be much clearer than before, but will still retain some tannins. Leaving the MeOH to sit in the freezer over night will precipitate another tannin complex that is blue in color. The MeOH can be decanted off with a few mls retaining this tannin complex. Quickly heating this little bit of solution on a HOT water bath will polymerize this new complex and the polymer removed and the residual MeOH added to the decanted MeOH. This then is left to sit for a period of time (at least a week) while more tannins slowly preciptate out of the solution. Fining wine calls for the wine to 'settle' for 2 weeks. At this point the solution can be filter or decanted to have an extraction that has the majority of the tannins removed. Some things to note are:
1) Too much gelatin and you are left with a solution that contains the leftover gelatin.
2) This should not be done in flasks as the polymers will stick to the sides of the glass and make cleaning the flask either hard or impossible (don't ask me how I know )
3) This should work fine for H2O or acid extractions, but then the amount of tannins extracted has to be calculated/weighed. Different extraction solvents will extract more or less tannins. The most effective for tannins specifically would be Acetone:H2O (70:30)
Posted 24 March 2006 - 06:49 PM
shredded vine by twisting/bending sections
chopped vine threads with scissors
finished hand shredding/chopping
after running bits thru coffee grinder
into the brew
Posted 25 March 2006 - 05:28 AM
Posted 25 March 2006 - 07:59 AM
used a plastic fork
[never stick a metal tool/fingers in plugged-in grinder heh]
to remove matted powder between loads
went pretty fast
Posted 25 March 2006 - 12:21 PM
Posted 25 March 2006 - 12:22 PM
Do you just add the water the caapi was soaked and pcd in to the brew?
Posted 25 March 2006 - 01:11 PM
first run-thru is complete,
drained off the brew thru cloth
here's what we have-
that's being evaporated down on a very low heat.
crockpot was re-filled with fresh water and another teaspoon of lemon juice
to make a second run-thru.
Posted 25 March 2006 - 01:19 PM
about 12 hours hot and 12 hours cold [overnight soak]
so ~24 hours on first run
Posted 25 March 2006 - 01:37 PM
Posted 25 March 2006 - 03:12 PM
I noticed you are using a glass pot to cook down in. Any advantage over stainless steel?
When you adding the gelatin? I thought it was to the first extraction while still hot, before reduction.
Posted 25 March 2006 - 04:13 PM
before beginning any serious reduction.
the 1st wash isn't really cooking down yet,
more like just evaporating a little.
most will still be there when combined tomorrow
but still extracting ATM
i just used the glass to give a better picture,
have a larger stainless pot
where the washes will be combined for reduction
Posted 26 March 2006 - 12:38 PM
2nd wash is finis
this is wash 1 after evaporating overnight->
this is wash 2 ->
both have been combined and are evaporating
the final wash, #3 is underway.
btw each wash ~= 64 fl. ounces water,
as much as the crockpot will hold
given amount of material used.
all three washes will be combined
then the gelatin will be added.
more pix tomorrow.
launch the following day [tuesday] in the early AM
Posted 27 March 2006 - 08:09 PM
on stove on very low heat to evap down
no pix yet
can't fit in the glass pan yet
once i boil off enough to fit that pot
i'll do the jello and shoot some more pix,
hopefully late tonight or early morning.
then it's off to the races,
wish me luck