Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

How can evolution/abiogenesis possibly happen on it's own?


  • Please log in to reply
116 replies to this topic

#41 MycoDani

MycoDani

    Myco Chick

  • Site Administrator
  • 9,862 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:21 AM

Actually, we did look kind of ape like until the split where homo sapiens appeared and there is no anthropological science that can explain this split. For some reason we changed from being pretty similar to primates and no one can tell us why. To me that is fascinating and pretty cool imo.

#42 Digital Phoenix

Digital Phoenix

    Morphogenesis in Stasis

  • Expired Member
  • 333 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:23 AM

Science isn't in the business of proving or disproving anything. Test, observe, record, repeat. The data are the data. That's what science is, and that's what an objective researcher does. Some people have agendas. Science does not.


A scientist wouldn't say something like, "Even though we have no research nor data to support the idea, we believe that saber toothed cats loved the smell of cut grass. You can't prove that they didn't, and I really like the idea."

Yet they have temperature readings since before we existed?

There is no evidence for a creator.

How do you explain stigmata? More specifically the wounds of Jesus are emulated more than the wounds of anyone else in history.

#43 dial8

dial8

    3 Fungi Mod

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 5,647 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:33 PM

They dont have actual temperature readings. They can assume what the temperature was based on fossil records of plants, seeds, pollen, and what not.

Yet they have temperature readings since before we existed?


How do you explain stigmata? More specifically the wounds of Jesus are emulated more than the wounds of anyone else in history.



#44 Godflesh

Godflesh

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 628 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:45 PM

http://rael.org/home

#45 Godflesh

Godflesh

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 628 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 01:04 PM

open your mind

#46 Libre

Libre

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 468 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 01:52 PM

Wow, definitely interesting. So if these aliens came and colonized the planet with life, who created them initially?

#47 -=Zeus=-

-=Zeus=-

    -= Still Kickin =-

  • OG VIP
  • 1,938 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 14 September 2010 - 02:43 PM

How do you explain stigmata? More specifically the wounds of Jesus are emulated more than the wounds of anyone else in history.

The same way you explain "placebo effect." The mind is magnificent at creating its own reality.



#48 Digital Phoenix

Digital Phoenix

    Morphogenesis in Stasis

  • Expired Member
  • 333 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:54 PM

They dont have actual temperature readings. They can assume what the temperature was based on fossil records of plants, seeds, pollen, and what not.

You lost me at assume.

#49 Phineas_Carmichael

Phineas_Carmichael

    Hooloovoo

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 2,947 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:25 PM

You lost me at assume.

Perhaps extrapolate is better verbiage.

#50 StheNC

StheNC

    Filthy Creep

  • Expired Member
  • 1,768 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:56 PM

Extrapolate is a better word, infer works also. When they talk about prehistoric temperatures they don't say that on August 6, 287,000,000 BC it was 134* F with a relative humidity of 97%.

They talk about average temperatures during particular eras and they have methods by which they can be reasonably sure based on a variety of data. Part of the process includes investigating core samples of glacial ice and gaining
valuable knowledge about the prehistoric atmosphere that when compared against known climate models and applied along with other data that have been gathered about different parts of the planet during different periods of prehistory, give the researchers plenty of ground to stand on when they say they are reasonably sure about the average temperatures during various periods.

They don't just make arbitrary prehistoric weather reports reports because they have a strong feeling in their heart about it.

#51 StheNC

StheNC

    Filthy Creep

  • Expired Member
  • 1,768 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:59 PM

And there's no need to explain stigmata.:bs: Pure and simple.
  • MycoDani likes this

#52 Digital Phoenix

Digital Phoenix

    Morphogenesis in Stasis

  • Expired Member
  • 333 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:42 PM

I like talking about this so apologies for the long rant....

Many things in evolution are theories.

The fact that we're complex makes us seem pretty special, but take a bigger look. For every advantage humans and all other organisms have (like eyes, or other senses) there are a thousand disadvantages. Needing to eat, needing sleep, having soft fleshy skin that can easily be damaged, not being able to use echo-location, not being able to breath underwater. Not to mention the many vestigial body parts (appendix, male nipples, body hair) examples of things that once had an advantage but are no longer needed. The more you focus on reality the more glaringly un-intelligent the design becomes. The more it seems like a product of one very long system of trial and error. Trial and error inevitably gets many things right, but also many things wrong. Whales have back legs buried under their blubber, cave creatures have leftover eyes on they're head but are still blind. Any flightless bird. If we didn't evolve from the water why are we 70% water? why do we and all other organisms need it to survive?

What evolution really is is just a perspective change for people, albeit a humbling and ego shattering one. Nothing stays the same, time passes and patterns emerge, that is all it means. Look at any major city and try to imagine it's humble beginnings as a few shacks next to a stream. Think of how you climb a mountain, -one step at a time. look at a simple sperm and egg turn into an amazingly complex creature.

Like I said perspective, think of a puddle that looks at the hole it's in and it thinks the hole was perfectly crafted for it, when in reality the puddle filled the hole. Things aren't always as they seem at first glance, we're energy blips on a big graph.


Until now I've never actually thought about the water requisite of life. My observation may be too radical for some. However water is comprised of one part hydrogen and two parts oxygen. I might add the first and eighth smallest molecules that we recognize. Considering that the vast majority of the universe that is space, is majorly a vacuum. Accordingly the properties of a vacuum will pull the weakest link first. Observing the properties of magnetism whereas opposites attract, the weakest link must be the one that offers the least amount of attraction, which as we already should know is hydrogen(being that it has the fewest amount of electron).

In other words, water fills in the cracks that the vacuum continually attempts to devoid it of.

As I have said for many cycles, PERSPECTIVE IS EVERYTHING.

What better sensor cluster than millions of hair follicles with independent nerve endings?

#53 Digital Phoenix

Digital Phoenix

    Morphogenesis in Stasis

  • Expired Member
  • 333 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:53 PM

Perhaps extrapolate is better verbiage.


Not really. More fancy yes, but no more definitive.
http://www.thefreedi...com/extrapolate

1. To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information.
2.
Mathematics To estimate (a value of a variable outside a known range) from values within a known range by assuming that the estimated value follows logically from the known values.

#54 Digital Phoenix

Digital Phoenix

    Morphogenesis in Stasis

  • Expired Member
  • 333 posts

Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:00 PM

And there's no need to explain stigmata.:bs: Pure and simple.

Ahh, lets put that in the realm of the minority report(that is if you've seen the movie(and if you've fathomed its meaning)).

Nothing to see here.....move along.....move along

#55 -=Zeus=-

-=Zeus=-

    -= Still Kickin =-

  • OG VIP
  • 1,938 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:57 PM

However water is comprised of one part hydrogen and two parts oxygen.


Hmm, I think its the other way around...H2O..sorry, couldn't resist ;)
  • Digital Phoenix likes this

#56 StheNC

StheNC

    Filthy Creep

  • Expired Member
  • 1,768 posts

Posted 15 September 2010 - 03:18 AM

Not really. More fancy yes, but no more definitive.
http://www.thefreedi...com/extrapolate

1. To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information.
2.
Mathematics To estimate (a value of a variable outside a known range) from values within a known range by assuming that the estimated value follows logically from the known values.



We infer that dinosaurs existed because we found fossils, and we infer the age of the fossils based on what we know about the radioisotope carbon 14 from direct observation.

Are you going to tell me these are just assumptions to be dismissed because nobody saw any living dinosaurs and because nobody was around to mark it on their calendar?

#57 1620

1620

    420

  • Expired Member
  • 68 posts

Posted 15 September 2010 - 03:30 AM

I was at a friends house that grows a lot of tropical plants. One of his orchids/pitcher plants had some very large flowers on it that looked very similar to a rather large hornet or bee. i mean, this thing looked almost exactly like a bee, but quite larger. My friend explained that the plant evolved this way for a reason, which i now have forgotten. The thing he couldn't answer, is how the hell a plant could possible know what a bee looked like in the first place in order to mimic its appearance. plants obviously dont have eyes.



<H2></H2>http://www.plantlife...kins_lo-res.jpg



buzzy

Edited by Freaky, 15 September 2010 - 06:44 AM.
Removed offsite img tag


#58 1620

1620

    420

  • Expired Member
  • 68 posts

Posted 15 September 2010 - 03:35 AM

Is this the plant your talking about? I had never heard of it until your mentioning of it. Its interesting how a plant could know what an insect may look like..
how is this possible?? also very interesting how there are carnivorous plants that trick insects into becoming a quick snack. They must have some sort of nervous system for the venus fly trap is able to close its mouth when they sense a fly in it. LOL

#59 Oblivion

Oblivion

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 2,473 posts

Posted 15 September 2010 - 05:21 AM

The venus flytrap has a series of hairs on the inside of its trap. Touching three of the hairs once or one hair three times triggers rapid growth and closes the trap. The hairs that look like teeth cage the insect until the trap can grow completely closed. At that stage, it will only close all the way if it 'feels' agitation from within it's trap. Upon completely closing it becomes sealed and digestive fluids enter the trap where the soft parts are liquified and absorbed. The whole process takes a couple of weeks and each trap can usually be used 3 times before it can no longer function. The traps die back in the fall and in the spring, they flower long before new trap growth. The largest of all carnivorous plants, Nepenthes Rajah is the only carnivorous plant to have ever been documented to have eaten a mammal. Rats fall into the gallon sized pitchers and drown. No doubt lured there by struggling insects.

#60 dial8

dial8

    3 Fungi Mod

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 5,647 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:03 AM

You knew what I meant. No reason to quabble over a single word. Yeah I should of said "infer" but you still knew what I meant.

You lost me at assume.






Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!