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Q&A MegaThread: Bulk Substrate Mix


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#1 calistoner

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:17 PM

Name the Mix
and how you fruit.
yeilds and success rate help too!
Decided to make this thread to find out what works for other mycotopiates and to help others (like me) broaden their knowledge.
ive seen alot of amazing grows. but ive yet to ever get one to fruit it the way ive wanted it too.
ive been using 50/50 coir/ castings. sometimes horse poo instead of castings. nothing fancy. i want to start using straw instead of coir.
my success rate is 50%. had a lot of contams.
contrary to most, its my first grows that were the successful ones. almost every one after has been botched in some way. mostly trich.
im also monotub retarded. cant seem to get them to work out for me.
thanks for your suggestions folks!
:bow:

#2 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 09:11 PM

My current mix:

40% Horse Poo
20 % powdered straw
20% verm
20% coir

I like to use popcorn as spawn, spawning to 55, 64, and other odd sized monotubs with trash bag liners. I use 4-5 qts to spawn a 64 qt tub, making the sub about 3 inches or so deep.

I dont use strawnet, but I do powder my straw to acheive the same consistency. I found some PERFECT horse shit, 1.5 years old, run through with firefang. I gathered as much as I could. . .:loveeyes: I am also super picky about powdering my horse shit, crumbling it completely with no clumps. I end up with a very very fluffy mixture, which colonizes quickly.

Inc temp for jars and tubs: about 84-86 F.

Fruiting temps: about 78 F.

Been water pasteurizing at 165 F for 2-3 hours lately, but normally oven pasteurize.

Since my massive glovebox wont fit in the door of my new place, I have been G2G'ing in a bleached bathroom. No bad jars so far out of several hundred.

I like to scratch my subs with a sterile fork when I introduce them to fruiting conditions, which I feel promotes a good pinset for the first flush.

Contam rates are low to nill, but I grow in a low humidty/low spore count environment.

:pirate: TR

Edited by TurkeyRanch, 10 October 2010 - 09:26 PM.

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#3 DrPepper

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 10:50 PM

corntek infused with honey and/or potato for spawn
rez-tek, coir variety

I like them for cheapness and speed, there are better choices out there if you want to fruit more or get larger fruits though

#4 -=Zeus=-

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 11:23 PM

First of all, take the tub you wanna use and clean it up well. We'll use a 105qt. clear Sterlite as an example.

Lay two bricks of coir in the tub, then pour about 2 qts of wheat straw pellets and 2 qts of ewc on top. Pour two gallons of steaming water into the tub with the ingredients, and put the top on. Let it sit and hydrate for a half hour or so.

After a thorough scrubbing of hands and arms, including using a fingernail brush, grab handfulls of the partially hydrated sub and grind them together making sure any dry chunks are broken up and hydrated. Mix very thoroughly. The wheat stray pellets take on a "cat shit" consistency when they are mixed with water so mixing them with the coir actually helps. Just keep grinding and mixing until you can't find any more clumps.

After a thorough mixing, test the field capacity by grabbing a fistfull and squeezing with all your might. If more than a couple drops of water emerge, the mix is a bit too wet. Vermiculite can be added to soak up the extra moisture until you achieve the right consistency and moisture content.

When you finally get the mix the way you want it, load it into stock pots, big bowls, whatever you have that is oven-proof and large. 4 hrs at 170 degrees f seems to work fine. After the 4 hrs, turn off the oven and let it cool on its own over night.

In the morning, take your tub and clean it very well. Take a large black plastic lawn and leaf bag and cut it down 1 side and across the bottom to form one big sheet of plastic. Fit it into your tub neatly, forming a liner around 4 or 5 inches tall. Use scotch tape to tape it in a few places to hold it, but don't tape it completely around the perimeter. You want to leave room around most of the tub for water to be able to run down the walls between the tub and the liner. Make a drain hole in the lowest point of each corner of the tub for drains. Cover with duct tape when not in use.

Now that your tub and you sub are ready, it's time to add the spawn. Popcorn works great. Take your colonized spawn and shake it apart. Put a layer of sub on the bottom, then pour in equal amounts of spawn and sub. Leave some of the sub for the top layer to cover any exposed grains. A tub this size would do well with 8 - 10 qts of spawn. Inch sized holes, covered in micropore tape is about all the fae you need. I recommend a row an inch or so above sub depth and a few placed higher also. Set that sucker in a warm place for about 10-14 days and yeehaw!!


GL :rasta:
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#5 groovy-uv

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:26 AM

my motto is KISS. i'm currently having success with 54qt monotubs ($4.97 at the HD; can't go wrong)

i add the following to a 5gal bucket:
5L crumbled hpoo
1.5qt verm
1.5c powdered gypsum
i mix this well (put the lid on it and shake). i then wipe down the sides of the bucket w an alcohol soaked paper towel as close to the level of the mixture as i can. next i top the mix with 325g of crumbled coir (that is half of a standard 650g brick). finally i pour 5L of boiling H2O evenly over the mixture, i put a clean lid on it (w some vent holes) and i wrap the thing in a towel and let it sit for around 24hrs. once cool, mix by hand and its ready for the (trashbag lined) tub.

to make my tub i layer this mixture with spawn. i use 5qts of WBS spawn per bin, and layer it in like this (bottom up): spawn/sub/spawn/sub/spawn/sub/spawn.spawn/sub, so that the first 3 layers of spawn are 1qt each, and the last layer of spawn is 2qts. the sub is roughly divided (by sight) so that the layers are mostly even and i use it all. also, i gently 'fluff' each layer with my fingers as i apply it, so the spawn and sub do get mixed a little as i go.

the bin sits in a dark quiet place for about a week until fully colonized, and is then birthed to room temp with natural ambient light from a large window and a box fan which runs about 12hrs per day. a few days after that i get knots, then pins, then... ;)

a note on my hpoo... i use a hand-crank meat grinder to turn my nuggets into powder. it is by far the fastest and easiest way i have found. i spent 30 bucks for the grinder at a restaurant supply co, and i use it with no grinding plate (it kept getting jammed w the fine grate, and i didn't want to pay the price of a new grinder to get a coarse plate). using it this way, the auger and cutter do just fine at getting my hpoo all ground up into a uniform, grass-clipping like consistency.

so far i am 8 for 8 tubs, 0 contams.

groovy

PS most of my knowledge about tubs comes from the work of eatyu and ozz, and for my spawn all credit goes to tvcasualty

Edited by groovy-uv, 11 October 2010 - 01:46 AM.


#6 groovy-uv

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:29 AM

I like to scratch my subs with a sterile fork when I introduce them to fruiting conditions, which I feel promotes a good pinset for the first flush.

:pirate: TR


turkey, can you talk a little more about this? i've only heard of post flush scratching; this works well for you?

groovy

#7 DrPepper

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 08:25 AM

turkey, can you talk a little more about this? i've only heard of post flush scratching; this works well for you?
groovy


Commercial grows are almost ALWAYS scratched before fruiting.

#8 riseabovethought

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:53 AM

Damn fine thread kids. Nice work and thanks for the helpful wisdom all you cool cats!

#9 Sidestreet

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:21 PM

Ideally I spawn with cloned genetics on popcorn or grated pf jars:

spawn : chopped straw : poo = 1:3:1 (or better)

A lot of times I'll mix in some coir or vermiculite as well. Some of the best pinsets I've had came when I put a thin layer of substrate overtop of any spawn so it has to grow upward.

I spawn to plastic tubs lined with a garbage bag, and fold the bag over itself for the spawn run. Then when the substrate is ready I cut the excess bag away.

My success depends the most on the quality of the genetics I use IMO. Then the quality of the poo I use, and the season seems to affect my success as well. I do the best in the winter time.

#10 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:33 PM

turkey, can you talk a little more about this? i've only heard of post flush scratching; this works well for you?

groovy



Sure. When the top of my sub is colonized, I let it go for a day or two longer. Sometimes this will produce a bit of overlay and tomentose myc. When I birth to fruiting conditions I iso down a fork, and gently drag it across the top of the substrate, making scratch lines. It seems to promote pinning best on spots on the sub where it was more tomentose. I get little forests of pins where the sub was disturbed.

I actually just took before and after pics like 2 days ago. Not lots of overlay on this one.

BEFORE

http://mycotopia.net...21&d=1287030599



AFTER


http://mycotopia.net...22&d=1287030599

:pirate: TR

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#11 masterplain88

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:40 PM

my fav is irishlions lc tek then inoculate to popcorn then oven pasturize 50/50 hpoo and straw then take colonized popcorn and mix in gallon bags at a time close to a 50/50 colonized popcorn to substrate lay it any were from 3-6" thick in a rubber made and let it rip. kiss
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#12 johndenver

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 12:17 AM

the method is simple.
1. spawn pc'd jars using popcorn or WBS (both work well, WBS seems to be a lil faster).

2. use a third of a brick of coir expanded using pasteurized-approved temps

3. mix in strawnet (FOAF uses Cat Country or Critter Country) ground up by blender

4. FOAF uses 12 gal tubs spread spawn in (FOAF donn't layer) using long latex non-powdered gloves and ur coir brick and about the spawn's worth of grinded strawnet.

5. give about 5-7 days to colonize; start fanning to pin and fruit and spraying sides.

6. FOAF gets great results from these and on average 6-8 oz. dried from about 4-5 flushes

#13 happydaze

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:57 AM

I wanna try somerthing awesome for the next grow. I would like to hear some of your favorite substrate recipes if theyre not super secret... The secret indgredient in my mix is love.

#14 wildabeast

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 02:11 AM

my sub is super secret but i will share coir/verm :lol:oh yea i use vegan organic love too :love:

#15 pizark2

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 03:57 AM

horse poo/coir/verm and castings juice

#16 director of sound

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:43 AM

cracked corn/ coir +coffee grounds and expand your coir with hot compost tea. ill add 3-7 drops shultz liquid plant food to the whole mess, dunno if it does anything but i regularly get 7+ flushed off of cakes made from this mix...

in all actuality there is no "best substrait" you just gotta play around with stuff and see what works best. i like mine and stich by it because it works, another goos one (well addative...) is hippie3's supercake mix.

#17 Om shanti

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:34 AM

I like compost made for growing agaricus, produced by agaricus farms. It works fine and it's easy and very cheap (where I live).
(NB not the spent compost which is sold for gardening)

#18 Forest FunGuy

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:40 PM

Ok guys, I was reading over this thread today hoping for some knowledge on my first bulk substrate tub adventure taking place today and so far I have read some good stuff.

I still have a few questions. Ill start with what I have. I have 6 jars of BRF cakes and 6 jars of rye grain, all of which are fully colonized and ready to birth. I have 2 tubs ready for everything. My first question is this,

Should I Dunk my BRF jars directly after birth and THEN break them up to add to the horse poo substrate?

Do you need to Dunk rye grain jars? if so how?

Should I go with a TiT technique for the tubs and have the actual substrate jar mix in a smaller tub and add a small amount of water to the larger tub with an aquariium pump and tubing to create more humidity?

And lastly for now, Since I have 6 of each im going with 2 tubs. And my partner and I want to try an experiment with 2 different substrates, HPoo and pasteurized wheat straw , to see which one we get larger and bigger yields out of. So which jar should go with which substrate ? HPoo with BRF or rye grain and wheat straw with BRF or rye grain?

Thank you all so much for being so helpfull on here and sorry for so many questions.

#19 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:57 PM

Should I Dunk my BRF jars directly after birth and THEN break them up to add to the horse poo substrate?


You can, but you certainly don't have to. Dunking cakes is mainly done when fruiting them on their own, to give the cake more moisture to push out more fruits on the first flush. If your spawning your cakes to bulk, then the moisture in your bulk should be plenty.

Do you need to Dunk rye grain jars?


Nope.

Should I go with a TiT technique for the tubs and have the actual substrate jar mix in a smaller tub and add a small amount of water to the larger tub with an aquariium pump and tubing to create more humidity?


If you mean, should you use a tub in tub to fruit in, and an aquarium pump and airstone for humidity, you can. I personally don't like using forced humidity like an air stone, humidifier, or an aquarium pump. I have had a hard time when trying these methods, and read of many difficulties trying to dial these types of systems in. I prefer to let the substrate create its own humidity, which it will certainly do just fine in a tub, if you get it to field capacity before you spawn to it.

So which jar should go with which substrate ? HPoo with BRF or rye grain and wheat straw with BRF or rye grain?


Thats entirely up to you, but keep in mind that your using two different spawn materials also, so you will be getting different results. If you did four tubs, two straw (one with BRF, one with rye), and two with poo (one with BRF, one with rye), that would be a bit more scientific. . .

I personally think that its best to mix straw and shit, with a bit of coir/verm to add extra moisture.

Thank you all so much for being so helpfull on here and sorry for so many questions.


:headbang: Many of us believe very deeply in what we do here, its our hobby, job, and passion. Ask away, and help us change consciousness!

:pirate: TR
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#20 M&M420

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 11:56 PM

I personally think that its best to mix straw and shit, with a bit of coir/verm to add extra moisture.

Entirley agree with everything he said.Just would like to add that u want your cakes to hold together so you can have multiple flushes without breaking apart.I find that wheat straw is perfect accomplishing this if used at around a 30 - 40% ratio.Good luck




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