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Killing Trichoderma with Electrolisis. A short journal plus homemade device.


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#61 shroom_seeker

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:48 PM

:hugs: Best of luck with your experiments. Most everyone (if not everyone) who has grown mushrooms have suffered from contaminations along the way. So, it is really interesting to see this type of work. I just don't want to see you get sick along the way; it might not be an option but like smiley said if you have a separate environment like an outdoor shed that could be a safer way to conduct future experiments. Science and technology is hard to come by and often controversial along the way. Take care and keep it up!
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#62 Justintime

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:30 PM

:hugs: Best of luck with your experiments. Most everyone (if not everyone) who has grown mushrooms have suffered from contaminations along the way. So, it is really interesting to see this type of work. I just don't want to see you get sick along the way; it might not be an option but like smiley said if you have a separate environment like an outdoor shed that could be a safer way to conduct future experiments. Science and technology is hard to come by and often controversial along the way. Take care and keep it up!


Thanks again+, I wont be dealing with advanced contams in that way ever again, Only using the electrodes to treat early surface contams on tray subs.
Experimenting with contaminations at full growth isnt good. I am working on making this obsolete by way of organic antifungal/antimicrobial substrate additives.Cheers Shroom Seeker.

#63 Justintime

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:09 AM

I was going to post a link here from web pages, its about the effect of electricity on Mycelium but its already here on Mycotopia so heres the link.Ciao

http://http://mycoto...imulations.html

#64 Ethical

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:31 AM

Cheers for that link justin(u need to remove one of the https in your link!) Can't wait to get into some preliminary testing on presterilisation with electroporation myself. Might start setting up some testing gear tomorrow! May our grows be clean and free from contaminations!
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#65 Justintime

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:47 AM

[quote name='Justincase']
Having a bit of trouble with the link so am posting the PDF here , have a look if you have the time, it is intrigueing.Cheers.

Attached Files


Edited by Justincase, 18 November 2010 - 01:01 AM.


#66 Erkee

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 08:20 AM

good diggin there justi:bow:!

#67 Justintime

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 10:57 AM

Cheers for that link justin(u need to remove one of the https in your link!) Can't wait to get into some preliminary testing on presterilisation with electroporation myself. Might start setting up some testing gear tomorrow! May our grows be clean and free from contaminations!


Thanks bro, sweet hey, feel free to post anything you find here if you like, may the force be with you.:headbang:

#68 Justintime

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 11:18 AM

good diggin there justi:bow:!


Thanks Erkee, I am interested to see one of these electrical pulse devices put together, I was wondering if car electrical parts could be used, such as the coil and rotor cap setup etc. Looks pretty simple, I know Ethical can put this together (nudge nudge Ethical) hehe Would be cool to have a smaller version. for trays to bring on larger harvests or fruit. Cheers

#69 Justintime

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 09:18 AM

I thought I may as well finish this thread off. It sort of links up with my other thread about Cinamon use in subs because I used the treated Mycelium in a cinamon coated sub. Well, it went like this .The sub I made up was too wet so the mycelium wedges took quite some time to do anything, during that time which was around three weeks they didnt grow any contams. Once the sub dried out alittle the mycelium began to grow quite well ,BUT I got a bit too sure of the ability of cinnamon to stop contams so I threw in a couple of mycelium isolations from the cinammon plate which originally had contams and it appears that trichoderma came with those isolations , up till then no contam was present.Clear as mud eh. At the end of all of this I myself am convinced that using electrically charging water to kill off contams on a solid piece of mycelium does work.
Water borne filamentation of separate hyphae are harder to treat with an electrical charge in water because the charged electrodes seem to pull the hyphae to them and they become stuck to the electrodes. In my opinion what is happening is that instead of the charged hydrogen molecules leaving the electrodes and traveling to the water borne hyphae, instead the hyphae being light of weight are attracted to the electrodes and stick to them .I am sure the hyphae cells carry an opposite charge to the electrically charged molecules leaving the electrodes. This is why it is easier to treat a larger mass of mycelium ,because it is not easy to break up in the water and the electrically charged molecules are able to travel through the water and are attracted to single nuclie cells which contain an electrical charge of an opposite nature which is common in many lower fungi (contams).

I have doubts this works on spore and the times I have tried it, I have been suspicious they were killed or at least damaged, perhaps they are single cell also, this is unknown to me.

I am finishing off my Cinamon thread now also.There is more of an explanation there as to how contams came from the cinnamon treated contam plate and the ability for use of cinamon Pro's and Cons.Cheers

Am very much interested in making Peroxide at home instead of buying it, i know that Peroxide reverts back to salt water when left in open air. Hypochlorous acid is what you get when you pass an electrical charge through salt water and the water becomes acidic. Alot of people are turning to hypocholrous acid as a safer non toxic cleaning agent that is more powerful than bleach and reverts back to h2o after a short period of time.

Edited by Justincase, 24 December 2010 - 09:47 AM.

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#70 Justintime

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 10:15 AM

I can't get into my old account because my old email was hacked a few years ago or more. But last time I logged in someone had messaged me to say they electrified a piece of infected mycelium and were able to culture from it. They used the technique I described above.
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#71 riseabovethought

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

It'd be nice if you picked up where you left off with your experiments.  I know a lot of us really appreciate your work.  It gets my thinking -box gears turning.  Welcome back.


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#72 Justintime

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 01:11 PM

It'd be nice if you picked up where you left off with your experiments.  I know a lot of us really appreciate your work.  It gets my thinking -box gears turning.  Welcome back.


Wow, thanks ! Coincidentally I noticed a new post about electricity when I logged in today. Yes if I can have some cakes or a sub colonise I would like to fruit on a stainless steel metal grill with a small current passing through. I'd have the feet of the grill insulated. Perhaps housed in plastic bottle caps on a bed of perlight.

Someone messaged me to tell me they electrified a small piece of contaminated mycelium and it worked. They were able to revive it contam free and go on to save their strain so that was good to hear.

Sure I'll definitely post again here once I have cakes to fruit :) I remember your name also. Good to be back
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#73 Justintime

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 01:48 PM

I just payed for one of these NE555 . Can control electrical pulse. Only one dollar. There are videos on the tube on how to use them. Very cool. I'll be using this.

Attached Thumbnails

  • ne555-1.PNG

Edited by Justintime, 11 March 2017 - 01:50 PM.


#74 dead_diver

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 04:05 PM

Instead of trying to extract graphite leads from pencils I wonder if leads for a mechanical pencil would work? They could be bundled to make any size rod that is needed.
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#75 Arathu

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:17 PM

Instead of trying to extract graphite leads from pencils I wonder if leads for a mechanical pencil would work? They could be bundled to make any size rod that is needed.

The answer to that is definitively YES................so too do graphite gouging rods available from welding supply you just have to peel the copper coating off. 

 

I used pencil leads in my initial experiments with electrolysis and then moved to various other electrodes. Graphite electrodes make for the cleanest reactions......everything else seems to get dirty fast.....IME

 

Killer subject here......I'm watching............

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 11 March 2017 - 07:18 PM.

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#76 Justintime

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:22 PM

Instead of trying to extract graphite leads from pencils I wonder if leads for a mechanical pencil would work? They could be bundled to make any size rod that is needed.

The answer to that is definitively YES................so too do graphite gouging rods available from welding supply you just have to peel the copper coating off. 
 
I used pencil leads in my initial experiments with electrolysis and then moved to various other electrodes. Graphite electrodes make for the cleanest reactions......everything else seems to get dirty fast.....IME
 
Killer subject here......I'm watching............
 
A

Hey Arathu. I missed your comment. On point with the graphite. Official lab experiments worked to a degree. But they couldn't be sure if it was the electricity or the shedding of the metals in their electrodes which toxified the aqueous environment of test subject matter.
Graphite still sheds but is non toxic. These tests were carried out with low voltage. Far below the 12 volts I used.
It was found that although the bacteria tested in this experiment had high mortality rate. They would increase growth exponentially within a short time frame. I don't recall the tests being carried out on mould spores.

Here is an excerpt from the source of the above article I mentioned plus very interesting links screen. Find link below excerpt.

Effect of electrical charges and fields on injury and viability of airborne bacteria.

Mainelis G1, Górny RL, Reponen T, Trunov M, Grinshpun SA, Baron P, Yadav J, Willeke K.
Author information
Abstract
In this study, the effects of the electric charges and fields on the viability of airborne microorganisms were investigated. The electric charges of different magnitude and polarity were imparted on airborne microbial cells by a means of induction charging. The airborne microorganisms carrying different electric charge levels were then extracted by an electric mobility analyzer and collected using a microbial sampler. It was found that the viability of Pseudomonas fluorescens bacteria, used as a model for sensitive bacteria, carrying a net charge from 4100 negative to 30 positive elementary charges ranged between 40% and 60%; the viability of the cells carrying >2700 positive charges was below 1.5%. In contrast, the viability of the stress-resistant spores of Bacillus subtilis var. niger (used as simulant of anthrax-causing Bacillus anthracis spores when testing bioaerosol sensors in various studies), was not affected by the amount of electric charges on the spores. Because bacterial cells depend on their membrane potential for basic metabolic activities, drastic changes occurring in the membrane potential during aerosolization and the local electric fields induced by the imposed charges appeared to affect the sensitive cells' viability. These findings facilitate applications of electric charging for environmental control purposes involving sterilization of bacterial cells by imposing high electric charges on them. The findings from this study can also be used in the development of new bioaerosol sampling methods based on electrostatic principles


https://www.ncbi.nlm...QuerySuggestion
I know some people prefer not to follow links. I can assure you this one is safe to go to.
This is the page copy below but links may not work. But I'll paste the whole thing anyway.

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Qiu X et al. Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. (2014)
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#77 Justintime

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:57 PM



Okay. While I'm here... I don't have a decent working battery at the moment. So I cannot do the work. But. I found this and at a glance I believe a very cheap model can be made with the NE555 mini chip board I bought from eBay for just a few dollars. Free postage. A 12 V battery from a cordless drill. Some copper wiring and two graphite rods. The NE555 allows you to fluctuate the frequency, pulses and charge ( forgive my terms. Not an electrician or any sort of knowledge other than intuition up in here lol).

How to use this? Read up on my thread. How to drill holes in glass. Make two opposing holes in a large glass jar. Insert carbide rods a little way and seal with aquasealant. Pour contaminated lc or contaminated agar wedge (and distilled water) into the jar. Seal jar. Attach two copper wires to each electrode outside of the jar by winding the copper wires tightly for good contact. Between the battery and the electrodes is the NE555 module. Instructions for correct placement of negative and positive wires are searchable easily followed. You will need wiring clips/tabs that anchor the wires onto the pins on the NE555 module. Cheap on eBay or from an electrical store. If you have a junk computer you use for parts you should be able to pull a few out of the wiring loom tabs/input connections.

Now we're here. I found this website detailing one such device and it explains how water is cleaned via fluctuating electrical impulse. Their device is expensive but you can make it yourself with the bits and pieces I have written of above. If you have a voltimetre you can make sure of the right ampage (you know what I mean) Those should tell you speed of fluctuating current. Dips and banks. Sorry lol. Its no brained stuff easy peasy Japan kneesey.

Here's the link. Read all about it but all you need to know is currents and speed of fluctuation. There are two knobs on the NE555 that moderate this. And also. If you wanted two currents fluctuating through the water at the same time. Try two batteries with separate wiring and two NE555 ( chime in if you're an electrician).


http://huldaclarkpar...om/?mv_pc=pzcom

Okay I'll copy and paste the page here.

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Please note that due to FDA regulations, zappers aren't allowed to be sold or intended to be used as medical zappers or healing and for that reason should not be called health zappers, cancer zappers or body zappers. However, it is the right of any individual to choose to use these for their needs. The FDA regulates companies and their products but not individual choices.
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Since it is not legal to sell zappers as a medical device, they are now sold for water treatment, that you can use as you wish. The clark zapper is an electric zapper or an electronic zapper for zapping microbes in water which results in killing microbes in water.

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Note. I am unsure of the effect of electricity on ungerminated mushroom spore at present.

Well great! Look how rich we are that we can have fun putting something like this together. Very interesting.

Does anyone have some knowledge about short circuiting a battery? Have I missed anything. I'll be putting one together as soon as I have the money for a chargeable battery. Cheers.

Thanks. Enjoy.
JT FKA Justincase

#78 Cuboid

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 06:53 AM

"Does anyone have some knowledge about short circuiting a battery?" - yeah, don't :)

It is likely to damage the battery and could cause explosion and/or fire.

Why do you want to short circuit a battery any way?

Cuboid
(Interested in this topic, I use a DIY Zapper on myself to help with health issues, never used it on a grow though)
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#79 Justintime

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:39 AM


Cuboid, hey there. Not a intentional short circuit. But A ground isn't in the circuit.Between the Positive to negative you have the electrodes in a jar of liquid. A little salt in the water makes it conduct electricity much better than plain.
I think I'll have to look it up. Just giving other interested people the chance to have input.

Study time.

#80 Justintime

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:51 AM



Short Circuit (From Wikipedia)

A short circuit (sometimes abbreviated to short or s/c) is an electrical circuit that allows a current to travel along an unintended path with no or a very low electrical impedance. The electrical opposite of a short circuit is an "open circuit", which is an infinite resistance between two nodes. It is common to misuse "short circuit" to describe any electrical malfunction, regardless of the actual problem.

Definition Edit
A short circuit is an abnormal connection between two nodes of an electric circuit intended to be at different voltages. This results in an electric current limited only by the Thévenin equivalent resistance of the rest of the network which can cause circuit damage, overheating, fire or explosion. Although usually the result of a fault, there are cases where short circuits are caused intentionally, for example, for the purpose of voltage-sensing crowbar circuit protectors.

In circuit analysis, a short circuit is defined as a connection between two nodes that forces them to be at the same voltage. In an 'ideal' short circuit, this means there is no resistance and thus no voltage drop across the connection. In real circuits, the result is a connection with almost no resistance. In such a case, the current is limited only by the resistance of the rest of the circuit.

Examples Edit
A common type of short circuit occurs when the positive and negative terminals of a battery are connected with a low-resistance conductor, like a wire. With a low resistance in the connection, a high current will flow, causing the delivery of a large amount of energy in a short period of time.

A high current flowing through a battery can cause a rapid increase of temperature, potentially resulting in an explosion with the release of hydrogen gas and electrolyte (an acid or a base), which can burn tissue and cause blindness or even death. Overloaded wires will also overheat causing damage to the wire's insulation, or starting a fire. High current conditions may also occur with electric motor loads under stalled conditions, such as when the impeller of an electrically driven pump is jammed by debris; this is not a short, though it may have some similar effects.

In electrical devices unintentional short circuits are usually caused when a wire's insulation breaks down, or when another conducting material is introduced, allowing charge to flow along a different path than the one intended.

In mains circuits, short circuits may occur between two phases, between a phase and neutral or between a phase and earth (ground). Such short circuits are likely to result in a very high current and therefore quickly trigger an overcurrent protection device. However, it is possible for short circuits to arise between neutral and earth conductors, and between two conductors of the same phase. Such short circuits can be dangerous, particularly as they may not immediately result in a large current and are therefore less likely to be detected. Possible effects include unexpected energisation of a circuit presumed to be isolated. To help reduce the negative effects of short circuits, power distribution transformers are deliberately designed to have a certain amount of leakage reactance. The leakage reactance (usually about 5 to 10% of the full load impedance) helps limit both the magnitude and rate of rise of the fault current.

A short circuit may lead to formation of an electric arc. The arc, a channel of hot ionized plasma, is highly conductive and can persist even after significant amounts of original material from the conductors has evaporated. Surface erosion is a typical sign of electric arc damage. Even short arcs can remove significant amounts of material from the electrodes. The temperature of the resulting electrical arc is very high (tens of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit), causing the metal on the contact surfaces to melt, pool and migrate with the current, as well as to escape into the air as fine particulate matter.[1]

Damage Edit
A short circuit fault current can, within milliseconds, be thousands of times larger than the normal operating current of the system. Damage from short circuits can be reduced or prevented by employing fuses, circuit breakers, or other overload protection, which disconnect the power in reaction to excessive current. Overload protection must be chosen according to the current rating of the circuit. Circuits for large home appliances require protective devices set or rated for higher currents than lighting circuits. Wire gauges specified in building and electrical codes are chosen to ensure safe operation in conjunction with the overload protection. An overcurrent protection device must be rated to safely interrupt the maximum prospective short circuit current.

In an improper installation, the overcurrent from a short circuit may cause ohmic heating of the circuit parts with poor conductivity (faulty joints in wiring, faulty contacts in power sockets, or even the site of the short circuit itself). Such overheating is a common cause of fires. An electric arc, if it forms during the short circuit, produces high amount of heat and can cause ignition of combustible substances as well.

In industrial and utility distribution systems, dynamic forces generated by high short circuit currents cause conductors to spread apart. Busbars, cables, and apparatus can be damaged by the forces generated in a short circuit.

Related concepts Edit
In electronics, the ideal model (infinite gain) of an operational amplifier is said to produce a virtual short circuit between its input terminals because no matter what the output voltage is, the difference of potential between its input terminals is zero. If one of the input terminals is connected to the ground, then the other one is said to provide a virtual ground because its potential is (ideally) identical to that of the ground.[2][3] An ideal operational amplifier also has infinite input impedance, so unlike a real short circuit, no current flows between the terminals of the virtual short.[4] Due to these differences, the terminology can be confusing; one textbook parenthetically suggests that "virtual open circuit" may be equally suitable because no current flows.[5]




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