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cloning oyster tissue to grain


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#41 Nobody

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:47 AM

Those jars look great! :eusa_clap Looking forward to seeing some fruits in the near future. I'm planning on doing some transfers to cardboard soon...that work will be done in open air as is all my work. It's surprising what you can get away with if you keep your work area and yourself clean. I always do my work in the bathroom after cleaning the surfaces up w/ bleach and the air w/ neutra air lysol and take a shower immediately before working. Works for me! I just don't like the idea of fumbling around in a glove box, I'd rather be quick and sure about the work I'm doing. I really just need to build or invest in a flowhood and be clean and sure at the same time!

#42 mydarling

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:51 PM

hello friends :)

today is day 24 after inoculation.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1290385671

some of the jars are pretty much 100% ... some of them are still at 5% ..... interesting. i suspect the difference comes from how much tissue i put into each jar, how long the tissue was sitting in H2O2 before i put it in (some were for several minutes and may have killed the tissue), and when i shook them.

here are the ones that are "almost" ready:

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1290386078

jars-day24-29-resize1000.jpg

here are some views of the mycelium fluffs on top, which i rather enjoy:

jars-day24-25-resize1000.jpg

some nice rhizomorphic clusters for the mycofreaks like me :teeth: :

jars-day24-27-resize1000.jpg

one thing that concerns me is the amount of myc piss accumulating at the bottom of my jars:

jars-day24-24-resize1000.jpg

i have never seen this in grain jars - only in the bulk substrate phase!
but, this is my first time running oysters, so maybe it's normal for such an aggressive species?
anyone have any insight on this myc piss?
btw, i'm fairly certain it is not a contam, as it is slightly yellowish in color (like cubie myc piss), very water (not gooey or slimey), and has no foul odors.
just wondering if this is normal or if the myc is going crazy. :crazy1:
i will try to pour it out before i spawn or g2g this grain, but if that doesn't seem to work, i will just discard the bottom inch of grain from each jar.

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Edited by mydarling, 22 November 2010 - 12:57 AM.
typo


#43 roscoe

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:06 PM

piss is very normal and often abundant when cultivating oysters. im pretty sure some subs cause more piss than others. if you grow them out on wood chips ime you will get about 5 times the piss as your grain spawn.

coffee is another big producer of really yellow piss. kinda funny it does the same thing to me.
http://mycotopia.net...22&d=1290387903

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#44 mydarling

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:32 PM

:bow: thanks rosceaux for the reassurance! and damn, that is some yellow piss!!! :lol:
do you try to pour off the piss before spawning or g2g'ing, or do you just mix it in? trying to decide how to proceed with this pissy mycelium!

#45 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:34 PM

piss is very normal and often abundant when cultivating oysters.

Agreed.

Here's a top-down shot of one of my WBS quarts of blue oysters after 30-some days with no shaking.
DSCN1561 [Desktop Resolution].JPG .JPG]

#46 mydarling

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:36 PM

:special: wow, that's nuts! the piss almost looks like blood!!!!!
very strange, have never experienced something so dark before.
wow! ! !

so, what do you in these situations?
pour or sponge off the piss before proceeding?
or just mix it back in?

#47 dead head jed

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:42 PM

oysters do tend to get a little wet in the jar ime
they have such high metabolisms they just seem to sweat out that piss

i'd try to avoid getting it in other jars just b/c it'll change the water content, but if spawning it shouldn't matter too much.. you just don't really want the grain sitting in that stuff too long or it'll get mushy

#48 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:45 PM

so, what do you in these situations?
pour or sponge off the piss before proceeding?
or just mix it back in?

I'm a total oyster noob so I just mixed it into the newspaper that I spawned that jar to.

The newspaper puck experiment ended up contaminating, but there were several other variables that could have caused that contamination, I can't say for sure mixing the metabolites in caused it... Further input from "qualified" oyster growers is needed...

#49 mydarling

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:53 PM

well, if i can't mange to pour it out of the jars before spawning, i was going to just discard the bottom layer that has been sitting in piss.
it may have to sit a few more days like this because a couple of them do need some more time before they're done.
i fear that the bottom layer will be mushy by then. the piss layer gets larger by the day!

ok, more questions since you're all tuned in ... :D

i have to go home for thanksgiving on wednesday, so if the jars are ready on tuesday night, which of the following would you recommend?
(a) spawn them tuesday night (to paper products) and let them incubate again while i'm gone
(b) put the jars in the fridge for the 4 days i'm gone so they "stall" until i get back
© leave the jars in the incubating tub for the 4 days i'm gone and spawn when i get back

???

Edited by mydarling, 22 November 2010 - 12:59 AM.


#50 dead head jed

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:58 PM

i'd toss them in the fridge.. gotta remember most oysters are cold weather fruiters.. i have some fruiting outside and its been dropping right around freezing at night. personally i'd probably take them out of the incubator in general, and just let them grow at room temp, they might grow a tad slower (i'd be surprised if they did though) and it might help resolve the piss issue a little

#51 mydarling

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:00 AM

ok, thanks for the input jed!
taking them out of incubator now.
the ones that are 100%, i will put into fridge right now (so they will be in the fridge for an entire week before i get to spawn them).
the ones that are not quite 100%, i will let colonize a bit more at room temp, then throw them in the fridge before i go (so only 4 days in fridge by the time i get back).
how's that sound?
thanks for the feedback everyone :bow:

#52 roscoe

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:20 AM

i would not trip about the piss making it into your next set of g2g jars. it's not extra moisture, it was always there. just make sure you mix it up real good before you g2g. also im betting that the myco piss has anti-contam properties, how could that hurt?

#53 condeviernes

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:36 PM

Great thread MD!!

I'm growing my first oysters too, supermarket clones. A couple of days ago I tossed one of the jars cause it had a lot of myc piss on the bottom! I thought it was a contam!

Good luck with those oysters!!

#54 copelandiaKidd

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 09:39 AM

everything is looking really good on here!!!!!!! I just spawned my few jars to straw...... i'm Hoping for the Best for Both Of Us!!!!!!!!!

#55 dead head jed

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 09:55 AM

i would not trip about the piss making it into your next set of g2g jars. it's not extra moisture, it was always there. just make sure you mix it up real good before you g2g. also im betting that the myco piss has anti-contam properties, how could that hurt?


i don't know if i can jive with that statement. the stuff we call "piss" is really metabolic waste, and just like our metabolic waste i don't think they really wanna be stewing in it, or trying to feed in it.
also it is not just moisture that is always there, cellular resperation is C6H12O6 (aq) + 6 O2 (g) → 6 CO2 (g) + 6 H2O (l)
that means it's taking in oxygen from the atmosphere and converting it into liquid water and CO2.
and its not the extra water that is really the problem with moisture content, it's where its at. getting the grain a little too wet while cooking to where they burst is a minor problem, but having extra moisture on the outside of the grain is a big issue. the moisture on the outside of the grain makes it to where the mycelium can't colonize that grain because it can't really adhere to the surface. it can't access both moisture (hopefully inside the grain) and the oxygen it needs on the outside of the grain.

all that being said, i wonder if a way around this would be to increase the size of the vent hole or something similar to increase fresh air exchange to keep excess moisture from respiration from building up.

#56 roscoe

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:09 PM

i don't know if i can jive with that statement. the stuff we call "piss" is really metabolic waste, and just like our metabolic waste i don't think they really wanna be stewing in it, or trying to feed in it.

don't confuse our ideas on cleanliness for the the rest of of mother natures creatures. rats and pigs love nothing more that to wallow in their own filth. my seemingly intelligent dog loves rolling in cat poop! and it is most likely essential for mycelluim to do a fair amount of stewing in their own juices, according to paul stamets

taken from Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms pg. 116:


production of primary and secondary metabolites:

A strain's ability to compete may be directly related to the production of primary and secondary metabolites. All fungus produce extracellular enzymes that break down food sources. Myriad numbers of metabolic by-products are also generated. These extracellular compounds are released through the cell walls of the mycellium, enabling the digestion of potential food sources. Enzymes, such as ligninase that breaks down the structural component in wood, are extremely effective in reducing complex carbon chains, including carbohydrates and hydrocarbons.

Secondary metabolites usually occur well after colonization. A good example is the yellow fluid, the exudate, frequently seen collecting at the bottom of aged spawn containers. Pleurotus spp., Stropharia rugosoannulata, and Ganoderma lucidum are abundant producers of secondary metabolites. Complex acids and ethylene-related products are examples of such secondary metabolites. These metabolites forestall competition from other fungi and bacteria.

also it is not just moisture that is always there, cellular resperation is C6H12O6 (aq) + 6 O2 (g) → 6 CO2 (g) + 6 H2O (l)
that means it's taking in oxygen from the atmosphere and converting it into liquid water and CO2.

well you got me on this one. but im here to tell you it is a negligible amount of "extra" moisture. in my time playing with oysters i have spawned thousands of jars and bags, and never once could attribute a contam to myco piss. if i pinned the moisture content right in preparing my next set of bags it has never mattered how much myco piss was in the master.

#57 dead head jed

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:29 AM

well actually pigs and rats are both VERY clean creatures, the wallowing in their own mess thing is a myth. pigs roll in mud to keep cool but otherwise they try to keep very clean, and anybody who has had a pet rat can tell you they keep themselves very well groomed. the reason your dog rolls around in cat crap is a different reason all together and has to do with the hormones in the feces, similar to the way a lion will roll around in hippo poop to get all jacked up on the large amount of testosterone contained in it. off topic but....

secondly they are called secondary metabolites for a reason.
i'll be honest in that i can't say for sure 100% that i have ever had a problem i could directly pin piss onto, but i know it makes what ever grains that sit in it really really soggy and i just can not think that is a good thing. but to each their own

#58 mydarling

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:01 AM

:lol:
i need to post an update soon so you can stop discussing piss and poo and animals rolling in it!
:horse:
:lol:

i will be spawning in the next couple of days.
stay tuned!

#59 mydarling

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:20 PM

i present you with:

a giant pretzel jar as oyster fruiting vessel!

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1291249073

ok that isn't the exact jar i have, i just found this pic on the interwebz real fast, but mine is similar.
holds 2.5 lbs of pretzels. larger than gallon size i'd reckon.

my question is, should i:

(A) cut some holes in the sides now, tape them up prior to spawning, leave the tape on during incubation, and then remove the tape for fruiting so that clusters will come out all the holes?

(B) or NOT cut any holes at all, and just remove the lid for fruiting so it is forced to fruit out the open top?

i'll be doing this tonight so post your opinions ASAP! :hookah:

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#60 mydarling

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:42 PM

also, i've decided to drill some 1/4" holes in the lid and put micropore tape on both sides of each hole. this is such a large vessel that i think it really needs some FAE help.

and, decided that if i DO end up making holes in the jar, those will be micropore too.




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