10 replies to this topic

[dik]

does anyone know if the potancy is any different with larger species. basically I'm wondering if there's any differance in dosage between GT's and Orrisa India's. To be honest I'm not even sure if this is the right place for this post, but hear it is anyway.

[Libre]

The main thing that affects potency is genetics. Generally speaking, you can take any random sub-strain of both gt and oi and they will have the same likely hood of being super potent, or completely bunk. It's all a matter of luck of the draw.

HOWEVER. There is an exception to this fact. On average, albinos/leucistics are known to be more potent that non-albino/leucistic strains. Furthermore, another exception is PE and any variation of PE.

BTW, welcome to the 'topia!

[dik]

thankyou glad to be here... its about time for me I've been lurking for a while..lol... I guess i was really wondering if the psylocyben (i know the spelling is horrible) is the same per mushroom reguardless of size in all cubencies. I know a gram of primordia will knock you out of your skull but in full grown fruits is a gram really a gram?

[Libre]

In regards to what you speak of, potency has to do with water content. If you take a full grown open capped mushroom, especially fresh, it will have far less psilocybin in it per gram than say a gram of primordia or even a gram of a mushroom that hasn't yet opened it veil yet. The reason for this is because mushrooms grow primarily through cell expansion, rather than cell division. This means that the bigger the mushroom, the higher the percentage of water content. So one gram wet of a full grown mushroom will have way more water content than one gram of primordia, and that's why the primordia is more potent.

Dry is the same thing, because as the cells expand, more chitin is produced to help the cells expand without bursting, making it more tissue matter and less psilocybin. If you want the happiest medium, harvest them when the veil is just getting ready to break. That's what they say at least.

[Man of Knowledge]

I would like to point out that each particular single specimen of Psilocybe, whether cubes or cyans or lib caps or any other species, that each individual shroom has a diffrerent amount of alkaloids within a single specimens, different than the specimen next to it.

So each package of 1/8th of a dry gram of cubes can have an entirely different dose than the package next to it.

Unless one is to take a whole dried ounce of cubes, 10 potent species or 15 or so medium, if you grind up the ounce into a powder and capp it, then each amount of capsules will have an equal dose of alkaloids. So remember that each mushroom can have a different dose. Also the compost or substrate used to grow shrooms can also produce different doses in weightage.

A dose of cubes is 3-5 dried grams. A double-ought geletin capsule holds approx. 1/2 of a gram per cap meaning 3 grams would be six capsules and 5 grams dried would be ten capsules. Lib caps, cyans, average 1 gram but baby cyans can produce 20 to 20 doses in a fresh ounce depending on their size. If a fresh ounce of cyans has 4-6 shrooms in a bag, you would get 4-6 people high. IF you had a one fresh ounce of baby cyans with 20-30 fresh baby shrooms weighing one fresh ounce then you could get ten to 15 people pretty high. If powdered, a half gram can be potent and in the 1970s , we of Dr. Feelgoodes on the ave had a party at homestead for shroom book authors and we actually got 8 people off on a fresh ounce of baby cyans.

Man of Knowledge/

I have answered this question here on several occasions as well as on other sites and people still asked the question over and over and over.

[tryptaminer]

right now SWIM is onto bigger specimens having more alkaloid content. can't truly tell though

[marmy]

my studying indicated that smaller fruits look cuter and were better received.

[woopty]

---------"A dose of cubes is 3-5 dried grams"----------

lol, this kind of generalization would seem to show that either ya have been dealing with some weak shrooms or Somebody doesn't realize how good they've got it on the homefront.......

FWIW, somebody has found the 'Texans' cubensis strain to be mindblowingly potent at around 1-2 grams per dose when cracker dry. This is from dozens of trials on WBS and PF Tek all of them innoculated via multispore injections.

Of course, YMMV

Good Luck!

~~~~~~~~~~~
PS: Wouldn't it be amazing if someone did a trial where they grew a variety of shroom strains from multispore innocs in some kind of standardized fashion and then took enough samples to give a good representation of the strain followed by extraction and analysis for alkaloid content????
I know everyone always says that "There's too much variation to show ANY variation in potency from strain to strain" but that isn't how it works industrially with almost any other fungus/plant/microorganism which is being grown for a specific chemical constituent.

For example, there are specific strains of Papaver Somniferum which are industrially recognized as superior for alkaloid production, same with Claviceps, same with Marijuana, same with Cordyceps etc etc etc.....

There has GOT to be a pattern here!

[Man of Knowledge]

---------"A dose of cubes is 3-5 dried grams"----------
lol, this kind of generalization would seem to show that either ya have been dealing with some weak shrooms or Somebody doesn't realize how good they've got it on the homefront.......
FWIW, somebody has found the 'Texans' cubensis strain to be mindblowingly potent at around 1-2 grams per dose when cracker dry. This is from dozens of trials on WBS and PF Tek all of them innoculated via multispore injections.
Of course, YMMV
Good Luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~
PS: Wouldn't it be amazing if someone did a trial where they grew a variety of shroom strains from multispore innocs in some kind of standardized fashion and then took enough samples to give a good representation of the strain followed by extraction and analysis for alkaloid content????
I know everyone always says that "There's too much variation to show ANY variation in potency from strain to strain" but that isn't how it works industrially with almost any other fungus/plant/microorganism which is being grown for a specific chemical constituent.
For example, there are specific strains of Papaver Somniferum which are industrially recognized as superior for alkaloid production, same with Claviceps, same with Marijuana, same with Cordyceps etc etc etc.....
There has GOT to be a pattern here!

A little more clearer than everclear.

Just to make this plain and simple, 3-5 dried grams of P. cubensis is a quantified clinical dosage, the equivelent of a Mazatec Ceremonial dosage equak ibn weight to that of P. caerulescens. However, chemically, that would be approx. 15-25 milligrams to 30 at the most. According to Ablert Hofmann and Sam I. Stein (the latter published his paper reporting the first frightful bum trip on 25 milligrams of pure chemical psilocine/ Normal dose for persistant user, but aside from that, at least for a first timer, the walls would breathe on ones mind and soul. There are dozens of studies from the fifties that showed the dosage level of P. cubensis and P. mexicana, the first to psilocybian mushrooms that hit the cultivation market in the late 1960s to the end of the 1970s. The majority of published data on the dosage of P. cubensis was established in the same manner as that of peyote which at a 500 milligram dose, equal to an Native American Church Peyote user would be the place where five milligrams more could make the walls suck you up into nothing.

Good examples of bad dosing are the research chemicals that Sasha created, several of his compound have dosage highs as low as 2 milligrams a dose.

Some at 4-6 milligrams such as D.O.B. (STP). The reason for all the paranoid very scary trips is that the Beat (Owlsley) produced the doses in 25 milligrams per tab which caused many freakouts, hundreds of clinical ER visits by users freaking out. No one knew what the fuck it was. But the problem was is that years later, Sasha testified for a DEA trial about a purchased substance suspected of being illegal. The STP turned out to be a compound he created years before called D.O.B. or STP which stood for Serenity, Tranquility and Peace. A lot of Sasha's potent phenylethylamines are so minute in dosage that 1-4 milligrams over his published dosage levels of which he usually provides 2-3 levels of enlightenment, can turn a pleasand euphoric experience into a nightmarish eternity that seems to never end.

I noted that above comments about quantified dosage levls and those of the amphetamine /mescaline family can very drastically with improper dosage. But if weighed chemically equal then trips could be equal. Clinically Claudio Naranjo who studied MDA and MMDA (do not confuse the latter with MDMA as it is not the same) noted years later the clinical dosage for MDMA (X, Adam, etc.) is actually 6.7 doses to one dried gram which is 1000 milligrams. However, everyone who has the powdered sulfate or hydroclrhoric acid form of the drug tend to make 8-12 doses out of their gram. Usually not honest so most never have the real experience of the high, which also has to have good 'set and setting.'

So with shrooms, and each individual shroom having a different amount of chemical activity can only be quantified when a whole dried ounce of cubes are powdered them crammed into several 1/2 gram double-ought geletin capsules and each person will come pretty close to having an even amount of active alkaloids per dose of 4 capsules or more. According to most chemical studies, including Bigwood and Beug and Beug and Bigwood, both 1982 research studies, cubes are actually one of the weakest of species of psilocybian fungi. 75 fresh Conocybe cyanopus weigh one/third of a fresh ounce, meaning there are two to three doses in a fresh ounce of Compcybe cyanopus. Lib caps have 30-40 doses to a fresh pound or to a one dried ounce. P. cyanescens can have frm 4-6 doses in a fresh ounce or as many as 20 or more if the shrooms are all little button sized shrooms. A dried ounce of baby cyans can produce as many as 40-70 or so doses if dried properly within a day to two days. I have always open air dried my shrooms since 1974, never a problem with potency at all.

And here are the two links for the Beug Bigwood/Bigwood Beug papers on cube potencies and others species of the PNW.

I may have already posted one of these in my greatest library. I am still short of posting the other 200 book cover images of magic field guides as Ihave dial up again so it takes forever. I will get those done so I can post the other 300 or so photos for parts 5-12 of my library shroom book collection. That does not count the countless other drug books in my library.

Beug, Michael W. and Jeremy Bigwood. 1982. Psilocybin and psilocin levels in twenty species from 7 genera of wild mushrooms in the Pacific Northwest U.S.A. Journal of Ethnopharmacology vol. 5(3):271-285. May.
The results of the analysis of twenty species from seven genera collected in the Pacific Northwest United States. Psilocybin was detected in seven species from three genera.



http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1294983916




Bigwood, Jeremy andMichael Beug. 1982. Variation of psilocybin and psilocin levels with repeated flushes (harvests) of mature sporocarps of Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer. Journal of Ethnopharmacology vol. 5(3):287-291. May.
Analysis of Psilocybe cubensis grown in controlled cultures and the variation of tryptamine compounds from the 1st to the 4th flush.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1294983916



And here is the reference to Dr. Sam Stein's bum shroom trip and for those who browse the stacks at your college or University, the Doc really had a bad time on 5 dried grams of baby in vitro grown specimens of Psilocybe cubensis in 1958.

Stein, Sam I. 1958. An unusual effect from a species of Mexican mushrooms, Psilocybe cubensis. Mycopathologia et Mycologia Applicata vol. 9(4):263-267. September 29.
Dr. Sam Stein's somewhat terrifying account of his dysphoric reaction after he ingested 5 dried grams of in vitro grown specimens of Psilocybe cubensis. An abbreviated version of this paper was circulated privately.


And

This is the same Dr. who tried to cure a young adult who thought that he might have homosexual tendencies. They used Panaeolus venonosus (Pn. subbalteatus, Pn. cinctulus) and Psilocybe caerulescens from Mexico. I believe that article is also posted somewhere here at somewhere maybe under the name of mjshroomer.

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1294982997


Have a shroomy day.

Man of Knowledge

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Edited by Man of Knowledge, 14 January 2011 - 12:46 AM.
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[microscopeman]

I hear people say all kinds of different things about potency of mushrooms.. IME If you have a big bag of dried mushrooms from the same batch they have no noticeable difference in potency if you break the big bag into eighths. If the first bag is good, you can be sure the next bag is going to be good.. It may vary if you break it down to the molecular level, but as far as ingesting them, you have a pretty good idea after the first test trial.

Furthermore, IME every different "type" of mushroom has its own "theme". Some will bring you to one place, and others will bring you to another place.. How "strong" they are depend on many different things and could possibly be the luck of the draw. Don't limit yourself to 1 type of mushroom because they may all offer different things.

SWIM uses them for medicinal and spiritual/religious practices. Different types are used in different circumstances. Also, If the person ingesting these doesn't have an open and free mind/spirit, they may not be affected in a meaningful way. You get out of it what you put into it...

[PVestlandia]

From personal experience all I know about potency is that mushrooms picked in the wild (in my case semilanceatas) are varying quite a lot, and homegrown (cubensis) will be quite equal in potency if it's from the same grow.

As an example, I have had half a gram of 2010 season semi's produce a 4 grams worth of cubensis regarding the effects. I'm consistantly more careful with my dosings of wild (semis) than my grown (cubes)...