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remington 700 rifle unsafe?


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#1 iamsmiley

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 02:37 AM

about 2.5 yrs ago i bought a remington 700 rifle chambered for .270 win. the gun is accurate as hell and i've shot a group about 2.5 inches @ 400 yards.i really liked the rifle but one day my hubby wanted to try it out hunting because his gun is a real piece of shit.my hubby chambered a round,it didn't go off the first time so he thought maybe he never loaded it so as he was chambering another round the gun went off as he pushed the bolt down on the next cartridge (no fingers on trigger).we only had the gun for about 6 months at the time so it was sent back to remington to be examined.the gun came back about a month later with a short note saying that the bolt had been changed and that an x-mark pro trigger had been installed.

this summer although the gun was supposed to be fixed it went off again when the bolt was put down to chamber a round by a friend target shooting with me.no fingers on the trigger again.i clean my gun about every 20 rounds,even disassemble the bolt to clean the firing pin as recommended.

i recently seen a show on TV by cnbc about the problems with these rifles.although the show was somewhat "sensational" and many of the gun forums are saying this show was put on by the gun grabbers even though the old man who designed the rifle said the gun had a defect.

now again,a few weeks ago my hubby borrowed my rifle and he had one hand on the stock and the other on the bolt as he was about to chamber a round the gun went off on its own when he was pushing the bolt down.i was right next to him again when it happened.the gun has never done this for me but when he chambers a round he holds the gun up instead of down (luckily in a safe direction!),that may have something to do with the malfunction as i have shot this rifle about 500 times and him very little.

i have heard stories of people being killed or injured by this gun going off by accident(although gun safety like never pointing a rifle at something you don't wish to destroy is most important).i no longer wish to keep this rifle and talked to someone again the other day about getting remington or the big sporting goods chain i got the rifle from to give me my money back or a different type of rifle.the boss man was not in the other day so i hope to resolve this soon.

so my point is...if you have a remington 700 be extra careful,although millions have been produced,thousands have had problems.

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#2 Beast

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 02:48 AM

Remington 700 rifles have two little screws in the trigger mechanism that can be used to modify the weight/pull of the trigger. If set too light, the rifle will fire when you close the bolt, just as you are describing. You say that the factory inspected the rifle and sent it back saying that there's an after market trigger installed, correct? It should be adjustable as well, and if not, then it is the faulty part with the rifle, and upon replacement your rifle will be just as reliable and accurate as before. Sometimes too much lubricant can cause screws to wiggle loose during repeated firing.

The Remington 700 is a very reliable rifle commonly used by police and military units, if cared for and maintained properly it should provide decades of accurate service.

Any competent gunsmith would be able to adjust that trigger for you, it can be a little tricky.

the bolt had been changed and that an x-mark pro trigger had been installed.


I believe your statements about the reliability of the Remington 700 are false. Your problem can't be blamed on the rifle as there are after market parts installed. If those weren't there, not only would you probably not have this problem, but the Remington factory would have actually fixed it instead of sending it back with a tag saying 'someone else's stuff is on here, not our problem'.

#3 greenhouseNcloset

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:05 AM

dateline or 20/20 broke a 2 hour piece on accidental discharge on those. There was a conspiracy within the company to not fix the problem to help keep costs down. really good piece.

#4 greenhouseNcloset

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:26 AM

Quote> The Remington 700 is a very reliable rifle commonly used by police and military units, if cared for and maintained properly it should provide decades of accurate service. <Quote

this is key!

#5 SilvrHairDevil

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:52 AM

"The company offered a Safety Modification Program, which unless it receives another extension will expire on December 31, 2010. Basically, they will take your gun and, at your expense ($20 plus shipping & handling), remove the bolt lock mechanism to allow the bolt handle to be opened with the gun on safe."

http://hunting.about...ewsrem700_2.htm

The x-mark trigger was probably an effort to fix the problem.

#6 mycobri

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:22 AM

PLEASE be very careful Smiley.. :)
As you may have seen on the CNBC expose'

The Remington 700 has been known to go off just by touching the safety,
the bolt, the rear of the buttstock ect.
it does not happen on all rifles, but like Beast said when that certain screw loosens,
Which the company deems as negligence - it becomes more likely to occur.

The special expose' in a nutshell:
The original creator of the trigger mechanism has made numerous attempts to get Remington
to implement his Multiple fixes that he designed, and they never did.
They have offered several "Fixes" over the years,
knowing the real problem but never taking the steps to correct it.
Employees of remington are scared to speak out,
but some of the elderly employees are now coming forward.
There have been over 100 deaths due to this problem, and several more accidental incidents.
There are videos on the net by trained snipers, military snipers and police snipers
demonstrating this issue in action.
Remington continues to deny this problem, even though the soultion is not that expensive.
They continue to insist that negligence and poor handling is the problem. Blame the victims.
But with Remingtons damage control dept. this has remained silent for years.

edit: i think this might be about the cnbc expose
http://www.wktv.com/...07629.html?s=mp

Edited by mycobri, 13 December 2010 - 08:43 AM.
added link

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#7 Ben Dover

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:05 AM

There are youtube videos (that were also on Dateline ) that shows trained snipers pulling the trigger and nothing happens. Then he touch the bolt and it fires.

Now they have a completely new firing mechanism but insist the old one is fine

#8 Bulk

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:28 AM

And this is why the monetary system is bull. It surpasses all else, even human life.
Over a hundred dead from something that could have been easily corrected.
Shame.

#9 usagolden

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:46 AM

if you got it from a Cabelas i'd bet they take it back and replace it
not sure if that is where you got it

#10 Justintime

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:06 AM

Hunting is Fun. I always hated Bambi besides.

Edited by Justincase, 13 December 2010 - 10:33 AM.


#11 jakepet

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:29 PM

just another example of co-operate America making millions and getting away with murder literally. If any one had died from these rifles knowingly being produced with a malfunction of firing while being on safe and at rest the CEO of remmington and those in charge should be held responsible. I person am tired of seeing business not being held responsible for their faulty merchandise and overlooking important facts like a weapon missfiring. If they are so safe why doesnt the CEO stand at end of a range and allow us to load bullets into it push the saftely on off and use the bolt to unload the gun. I would do it do any of my Ruger weapson as i own 5.

#12 Beast

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:09 PM

Over a hundred dead from something that could have been easily corrected.


Don't let the media hype get you in a huff, its not the defective rifles that killed those people, nor the company that made them.

The person holding the loaded rifle, and pointing it at another human being while loading a round into the chamber is a huge NO-NO, regardless of whether the rifle is defective or not.

To be honest with you, one of the Remington 700s I carried during a certain period of my military service had this problem, granted it did receive some rough treatment, as well as some inclement weather situations, and I did disobey a direct order not to mess with the trigger screws. Sure enough within a couple of weeks my rifle would fire whenever I closed the bolt.

Did I ever kill anyone on accident? nope, because I always handle my firearms with the utmost care and attention to where that fuckin thing is pointed, whether its unloaded or not. That's because the way I handle a firearm does not change whether I've just pulled it from the gun cabinet/armorer, cleaned it, or whether I'm at the range/field. And it shouldn't for anyone else either, but some people just don't care about their friends and family that much.

In fact, I continued to use the rifle and fired it just as accurately by closing the bolt rather than pulling the trigger.
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#13 iamsmiley

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:06 PM

Beast you do sound like you know your stuff! this rifle was brand new when it's first accidental discharge happened,i don't think it had more than 100 rounds through it.i sent the gun to Remington to fix since it was under warranty.remington supposedly did the "fix" by installing the x-mark trigger and replacing the bolt.when i got the gun back from Remington they sent it back with a trigger pull of over 15 pounds ( i had the most popular custom gun maker/gunsmith in my area check it).i was unable to keep the gun on target and shoot properly with such an insane trigger pull.i had the trigger lightened to 3 pounds by the gunsmith.the gun seemed to work great for me for 1.5 yrs then it recently accidently discharged again twice this summer.i talked to a lawyer today who has been handling these cases and he told me that this is the first time that he has heard of an accidental discharge with the "improved" trigger.i was unaware that there was even a problem with these rifles when i first took the rifle to remington (i had no computer back then).

the other day i was reading about others having the same problems and learned about the possibility of those 2 screws loose but have not checked to see if that is my problem.i heard mention that if the trigger is adjusted and no one used lock tight when putting those screws back in that they can come loose. i did read about to much dirt/old oil building up on my firing pin so i have been taking it apart and cleaning it more often since i read about that last year.the rifle had not even been shot 20 times since the last cleaning when it went off.

i did not get the rifle from cabala's but another popular chain that hopefully will help me.at this point i decided not to clean the rifle again before i let an expert look at it to see if they see any reason for this.Heck,the gun is only 2.5 years old!!! my guess is that even if remington sent the gun back again "fixed" that this rifle will likely do this again in the future so i think i may go with a Savage or something instead.so many things are being poorly manufactured these days and it doesn't surprise me that guns are going this way to.i was thinking about getting either a Sako or a Tikka but they have been blowing to smithereens because of the metallurgy being off in the barrels.is nothing sacred anymore? i wouldn't mind paying more if i actually thought i was getting a better product.

i heard of a fellow who was able to fire his rifle by just using the bolt but one day the bolt flew right out and injured his hand bad enough that he needed 15 stainless steel screws and 2 operations to try to regain some use of his hand.after hearing this it got me thinking that there is more than a "just point it in the right direction and no one will get hurt issue".now i'm not so sure thats a risk i'm willing to take??? also,you know those faulty Sako and Tikka barrels that i mentioned? a guy i was talking to who worked at the gun store i bought my rifle from told me that Remington bought all those barrels and are installing them on new rifles.is this true? i'm not postive but if thats the case it tells me that Remington knows its about to get its ass sued right off and no longer cares.sad if that's so....

Edited by iamsmiley, 13 December 2010 - 04:17 PM.


#14 firerat

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:12 PM

.... I would do it do any of my Ruger weapson as i own 5.


That's not very bright there guy.

Rule #1 of fire arm safety:

EVERY GUN IS LOADED!! NO MATTER WHAT, EVERY GUN IS LOADED!!

# 2

NEVER POINT YOU GUN AT SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY!!

The only safety you should trust is between your eyes. Never ever rely on a "safety" like that.

That being said, I do agree that Remington should hold some accountability if it can be proven their product failure indeed led to someones death.

#15 rocketman

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 05:47 PM

Listen Smiley :)

The same thing once happened to me with a my .44 magnum pistol. Cheap ammo was the culprit, not the weapon. I was using store bought aluminum cased ammo instead of good brass. This can happen with any ammo though.

Its called hangfire, and it can be fatal. You pull the trigger and nothing, then a few seconds later boom! During the time between the trigger pull and the eventual explosion many do stupid things like pointing the gun at another or even looking down the barrel.

The time this happened to me I did not know about hang fire, and I was lucky enough to know not to ever point any gun at anyone or anything but the ground unless I intended to shoot it/them. When it went off it went off in the ground, and i was stunned to say the least. I actually thought someone was shooting at me from a close distance because the pistol had no recoil.

Some good advice and info of wiki: Hang fire refers to an unexpected delay between the triggering of a firearm and the ignition of the propellant. This failure was common in firearm actions that relied on open primer pans, due to the poor or inconsistent quality of the powder. Modern weapons are susceptible, particularly if the ammunition has been stored in an environment outside of the design specifications. The delay is typically too brief to be noticed, but may be disruptive in processes where accurate timing is important, such as synchronization gear in propeller driven aircraft.

A hangfire should be suspected whenever a weapon fails to fire, but has not clearly malfunctioned. In modern, serviceable weapons it is more likely that the round is a "dud" (one that will never fire at all), but it is important NOT to immediately remove the round from the chamber. If a hangfire has in fact occurred, a round detonating outside of the weapon could cause serious fragmentation injury. If the operator believes that the weapon correctly cycled a fresh round and the action is not visibly jammed, the correct procedure is to keep the weapon pointed at a safe target for thirty seconds, then remove and safely discard the round.

edited to say: I know this sounds a bit condescending, but trust me it is not meant to be. I think all shooters of all ages need to go to a hunter safety course every few years to be reminded of the dangers shooters face and the danger they pose to others.

Edited by rocketman, 13 December 2010 - 05:52 PM.


#16 Beast

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:07 PM

I'm betting this isn't hangfire, nor an ammunition problem, especially given the news releases from Remington linked to above. Why disagree with the company about their own product?

Rather than a delay of the firing pin or ammo, this problem is the opposite, in that it fires prematurely, rather than late. Premature ejaculation vs whiskey dick, so to say ;).

#17 iamsmiley

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:43 AM

lol premature ejaculation as opposed to whisky dick!!! i like whiskey dick!! ya, this is going off to soon. where i live everyone has to take hunter ed so we did learn about hang fire and the waiting game.i've had other guns hang fire on me before and it sure sucks to be standing there waiting while a nice whitetail runs away!!! i think my hubby wasn't listening though about not ripping the round out of a gun right away -he's been lucky when his shitty rifle does this on him and the round hasn't gone off-yet.i won't even shoot his gun anymore because it goes click when it should go bang to often!

slam-fires are supposed to freak you out to,sks sometimes do that when the firing pin gets to dirty because the firing pin is free floating (brownells sells a spring loaded firing pin fix for this) and they stick causing the gun to fire like on full auto until the clips empties when you load the gun but i've never had one of those happen.its another case of a firearms manufacturer saving five cents.

#18 firerat

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:08 AM

slam-fires are supposed to freak you out to,sks sometimes do that when the firing pin gets to dirty because the firing pin is free floating...


Going a little off topic but an SKS going into slam fire almost had my ass in jail and got me banned from a local firing range.

Not a fun way to learn about the joys of cosmoline removal, but that's another topic for another thread.

#19 jakepet

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:46 PM

i was expressing that my 5 Ruger firearms i own have never malfunctioned or miss fired thus building my trust with this manufacture. Having my act 235 as well as my concealed weapons permit and being a avid hunter i know all about the rules of handling a loaded firearm. i know that my Rugers are not going to accidently fire while being in the safety position or by closing my bolt on my rifle ect or the slide on my pistol coming foreward. I was just expressing my feelings about cooporate over looking serious issues to save money as well as save there face in the public eye at the cost of some ones life. I bet you would feel diffrent if a weapon in your hand went off when it shouldnt and some one got hurt because of it. You hear about the 100 or so people who have died because of this attempt to save a few cents and dont probly take into consideration all the other people who have been affected by it. Imagine how bad the person holding the weapon feels and then to have to watch your friend or loved one suffer and die just so Remmington could save a few cents. Cmon Remmington should be held responsible as should businesses who overlook and try to cover things up that are dangerous to the people they are selling there products too.

#20 Beast

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:47 PM

There is nothing wrong with being the 'victim' of a firearms malfunction, especially if it is due to a fault of the manufacturer. There is, extremely, something wrong if someone is injured due to you not handling the firearm properly when such happens. This is why 'firearm handling instructions/training' exists. Shit happens, whether its a flinchy index finger or faulty parts from a manufacturer. Just like wearing your seatbelt, just cuz you're a good, responsible driver doesn't mean you should be prepared for any nu,ber of problems.

When Ford went ahead and manufactured and sold the Pinto, and later the Explorer, or even more recently, Toyota, knowing full well that they were going to blow up and kill many customers, where were the calls from politicians/media heads to ban automobiles??




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