147 replies to this topic

[bbd2]

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I think it is a good idea because we are already effectively paying for universal coverage by saying, "no person who comes into an emergency room can be denied treatment." Preventative care is exponentially cheaper than emergency care.

and thats why they fight it

coz sicker ppl use more medical services

smart doctors should own several mickey'ds, liqour stores and tobacco products shops

growth investment that

[bbd2]

our universal coverage system has been abused

the healthcare bill tries to rearrange the relationships

tries to make the market more safe

we'll see if anything changes after 2014

[TVCasualty]

Health care is a boondoggle. Ever since Nixon put his slimy stamp of approval (and lack of oversight) on "Edgar Kaiser's Permanente thing" back in 1971, the system has moved continuously towards prizing profit margin over all else.

Kaiser was my father's company's primary competitor. Once the HMO thing was created by Kaiser/Nixon (my grandmother knew Nixon, grew up in the same neighborhood), everyone wanted in and my dad's hospital management company dumped all their hospitals (13 of 'em) and started an HMO shortly before 1980. They all saw the hospital biz as going down the tubes at the time, with HMO's the obvious way to go and since Kaiser already had a massive head start and was raking in the profits they made it look like a gravy train you merely had to join and making a fortune would be guaranteed.

It's what happens when people trained and licensed as accountants get to be in charge of medicine (my dad was a CPA). In all his discussions of the business I heard, none involved any patients, er, "clients." After all, what do patients have to do with for-profit healthcare besides drag down profits?

But don't worry, he and folks like him got their Karmic rewards as we all eventually do; I'm one of the few children among the folks running that scene who isn't totally fucked up, in rehab, in prison, or dead (or even worse, part of the next generation of douchebags; thanks magic mushrooms!). It's probably because one day I just split and started my life over from scratch, dead broke and living in a tent in the woods with my unusually hardy girlfriend (and I've lacked access to any healthcare since 1995, ironically). My gf was hardier than I was, frankly (she being born and raised in rural Germany, I from a SoCal suburban Hellscape) but she did manage to whip me into shape after a while.

I walked away from it all back in 1995 and have been following my Vision/passion/bliss ever since, but only now in 2011 do I think I'm finally on the cusp of building something real and lasting and that might get me some health coverage, lol. It was harder than I ever thought I could endure, but I guess in my own way I'm an example of the American Dream still working out, more or less. Once you spend a year living in a tent in a subtropical environment (meaning "constantly wet") most other things start to seem relatively easy to handle. I can't recommend it to anyone though since it was so intensely harsh for so long. I did my time working total shit jobs (even literally crushing rocks for $4.25/hr in '95; if you need a job in the next 45 minutes, it's an option) so I was off and running on the "get rich slow" track, lol.

Oh, and for a real potent dose of irony, how's this: When still in business, my dad shelled out lots of money to lobbyists to get legislation passed in CA that placed limits on punitive damages for malpractice cases. It passed, and such damages are now by law kept rather low. Stock prices for CA HMO's rallied! Cha-ching! Fast forward 20 years, former CEO of the HMO needs a kidney transplant; gets a couple (first one didn't take), but second hospital nearly kills him with demonstrable gross negligence. He needs to relearn how to walk and all that (slight brain damage from too-low blood pressure after surgery) and has a solid malpractice lawsuit. He talks to lawyers who agree his suit is valid and a sure winner but caution him that the actual damages he can recover are capped by law. Guess who helped get that law passed? Isn't life just amazing sometimes?

So, maybe the American Dream is the chance to make our lives the way we want them to be, but there's no guarantee that we'll succeed or that what we want won't ultimately be what does us in. The American Dream, then, is the right to succeed or fail in our own way. I demand the right to fail!

If life is a minefield (and it most certainly is, plus we're all walking through it blindfolded), then the American Dream exemplifies at least a (relatively) wide-open minefield that allows us to go in any direction that attracts us whereas most others try to to force people to stay on a path arbitrarily chosen by those in positions of power or as a function of the social class one is born into. It sucks to take the chance and lose, but it's better than never being allowed to take a chance at all.

As it says in that most Holy of Holy Books (The Book of the Subgenius), If I can't whup it, I'll go down!

[jakepet]

[quote name='TVCasualty']

If life is a minefield (and it most certainly is, plus we're all walking through it blindfolded), then the American Dream exemplifies at least a (relatively) wide-open minefield that allows us to go in any direction that attracts us whereas most others try to to force people to stay on a path arbitrarily chosen by those in positions of power or as a function of the social class one is born into. It sucks to take the chance and lose, but it's better than never being allowed to take a chance at all.

Well put :eusa_clap

I am happy that I have the chance to do things most in other countries would never have the opportunity to do....

[BuckarooBanzai]

Karma is a bitch, isn't it? I usually have to explain ad nauseum how Nixon relates to health insurance. Frickin' weird that you would not only get that reference but have a personal connection to it.

So many people today are so damned ignorant of our history. It's part of why I believe we are doomed.

So, maybe the American Dream is the chance to make our lives the way we want them to be, but there's no guarantee that we'll succeed or that what we want won't ultimately be what does us in. The American Dream, then, is the right to succeed or fail in our own way. I demand the right to fail!

If life is a minefield (and it most certainly is, plus we're all walking through it blindfolded), then the American Dream exemplifies at least a (relatively) wide-open minefield that allows us to go in any direction that attracts us whereas most others try to to force people to stay on a path arbitrarily chosen by those in positions of power or as a function of the social class one is born into. It sucks to take the chance and lose, but it's better than never being allowed to take a chance at all.

As it says in that most Holy of Holy Books (The Book of the Subgenius), If I can't whup it, I'll go down!

That's so freakin' perfect I don't even want to restate or comment after it other than to say that them is some great words.

WHAT HE SAID!

[dfar]

Nice progression of the thread, very good posts. It's nice to hear others opinions and alter my own.

[Beast]

Its all a matter of perspective.

I was just reading an article about how much China has been getting hyped over here in the US lately, probably due to the arrival of the Chinese President. The article was comparing views of hardcore chinese nationalists found in chinese interest chatrooms against the views of 'young educated urban Chinese', what follows is the viewpoint of the latter group:

“I don’t know how many Americans feel frustrated or how many still hold their beliefs. But in China I think there are many people who believe that they should be better off or have a dream,” said Li Kaiyuan who is from Jiangsu Province but is studying acoustics at Beijing’s Academy of Science. “They spend the day in a very large machine. They do not have a dream.”

The grass might look a little brown and trampled on our side, but it sure ain't greener on the other side of the fence.

Edited by Beast, 19 January 2011 - 02:00 PM.

[-=Zeus=-]

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1295471568

This is an illustration of American progress entitiled "Spirit of the Frontier." I believe we all have the power to manifest our own destiny, no matter where we are geographically located. If you look at the picture closely, it has much to say, and much to learn from.

Peace...Z

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