Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Ky. Bill will force Drug testing on welfare recipients


  • Please log in to reply
120 replies to this topic

#1 alycewander

alycewander

    Learning to fly...

  • Expired Member
  • 420 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:13 PM

FRANKFORT, Ky. — Random drug testing would be required for adults who get food stamps, Medicaid or other state assistance under a bill filed in the House — a proposal that critics say could stigmatize recipients of such benefits
As currently written, House Bill 208 would eliminate benefits for those who failed a drug test. They could get them back by passing a test at a later date to be determined by the state.
But the sponsor, Lancaster Republican Lonnie Napier, said in an interview Tuesday that he plans to amend the bill to allow those who fail the drug tests to continue receiving assistance if they agree to undergo state-paid substance abuse treatment.
If they refuse treatment, they would lose the assistance, he said.
Napier said the goal “is to get people off drugs.”
“I'm not a hard-hearted guy,” he said. “I believe there is a need for public assistance for those who need it, but I understand some are using these funds to buy drugs.”
Thirteen House members have signed on as co-sponsors of HB 208, including House Speaker Greg Stumbo, D-Prestonsburg.
“As attorney general and as a legislator, I have done all I can to curb illegal drug use in the state,” Stumbo said in a written statement. “I view this issue in that light, and that's why I signed on as co-sponsor.”
In addition to stigmatizing welfare recipients, critics say, the bill could harm their innocent children.
“When they cut off welfare to the recipient that means you could have five or six kids out there who could be cut off with it,” said Rep. Tom Burch, D-Louisville.
Burch, who is chairman of the committee that will likely hear the bill, said he might support it if it’s amended to include some protections for children.
Napier filed similar legislation last year’s session of the General Assembly, but Burch did not give it a hearing in his committee.
Sheila Schuster, executive director of the Kentucky Mental Health Coalition, said Napier’s proposed amendment is a step in the right direction but she questions how the treatment would be funded.
Medicaid pays for substance abuse treatment only for youth, pregnant women and women who have had a baby within the last 30 days.
“We certainly like the idea of treatment rather than punishment,” Schuster said. “I guess coming from the standpoint of the many, many years of chronic under-funding of community mental health services, I hope that Rep. Napier and others who might support this bill will look at what needs to happen to make sure we have that … treatment available.”
Legislatures in Missouri and Nebraska are considering similar bills, which would require drug-testing for welfare recipients who receive cash payments.
According to the American Civil Liberties Union Web site, Michigan is the only state to have actually imposed drug testing of welfare recipients. A federal appellate court struck down the policy in 2003 as a violation of the constitutional right against unreasonable searches.
Napier said more than 600,000 adult Kentuckians are on welfare, and a drug test would cost about $30.
He said there would be exceptions for people with a prescription for a controlled substance.
Sen. Julie Denton, the Louisville Republican who is chairman of the Senate Health and Welfare Committee, did not respond to a request for comment on HB 208. ----- taken from:
http://www.courier-j...ose-getting-aid
_______________________________________________________________

:mistrust:
I think this is :bs: for a number of reasons.

One being that there are a lot of good people in KY but there are also a lot of people that believe in their drugs. Now, not all of these people are on welfare but there is a good amount that is. I grew up living 5 min from the bridge into Ky and spent a good deal of time in KY. (:mistrust:Southern IN can get rather boring:mistrust:) So, doing this, YES it would get rid of a lot of people being on welfare BUT it will also just royally piss A LOT of people off. Something KY doesn't really need any more of is angry people crowding the streets.

The second thing being that yes you can get some pretty big scumbags on welfare that refuse to work just being they wont get their asses off the damn sofa. That being said, there are a lot of good people that work hard as hell and need something like 'foodstamps' to make ends meet.

Then we ask the question..."what do they do when there are kids in the families?" Take them from a happy loving warm home and put them in a foriegn environment and not really give two shits about them. Where is the line?

I see some (very little) good in it yes (I guess), but I also see the bad...now which one out weighs the other? What would make things easier is, if you could pick out the bums from the hard working american that just needs that little extra help to feed their families.

#2 imsodangraw

imsodangraw

    Eurhythmicist

  • Expired Member
  • 726 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:31 PM

I grew up and live most of the time in Kentucky. I think this is more of a good idea than a bad. I speak for the majority of welfare recipients when you read anything I'm about to say. I think it's safe to say that the good majority of welfare recipients are too lazy to work. Why work when you can just have food and money handed to you. Not only that... but you're doing better than if you were to work! Now I understand there are a few families that genuinely benefit from foodstamps and they work their asses off.

In my opinion, if you need assistance providing food to your family or yourself, you don't need to be spending money on anything else. That includes drugs.

I totally disagree with the welfare system as it stands now. Money should never be put in the hands of the recipients. There should be centers that welfare 'club members' go to get their allotment of food and supplies. If you don't want to work, why should I have to pay for you to live? This should make no difference in the eyes of those that really do work and still get foodstamps. Same concept, just eliminates the people that use the system.

#3 CoyoteMesc

CoyoteMesc

    howling mad

  • Expired Member
  • 4,313 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:34 PM

Here is a link to a conversation about this a few years back. I still feel the same.

You ask for the government to take care of you, you sign the papers (an agreement) Live with the rules.

http://mycotopia.net...cipients-2.html

#4 Mermaidia

Mermaidia

    Sober Sister

  • Expired Member
  • 4,173 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:27 PM

I concur, with cm and isdr on this. I know I may get the evil eye for i t and some call it jealousy. I spent COUNTLESS hours, days, months looking for a job. Yes times are tough but there are jobs out there. Many, many people abuse the welfare system. I don't agree with how it is set up either. I think it should geared to those who try to help themselves, not those that sit around and do nothing except have more children (they can't afford), spend money on designer clothes, new cars, just to name a few; while I bust my ass to make ends meat to support my family and theirs.

#5 alycewander

alycewander

    Learning to fly...

  • Expired Member
  • 420 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:47 PM

I concur, with cm and isdr on this. I know I may get the evil eye for i t and some call it jealousy. I spent COUNTLESS hours, days, months looking for a job. Yes times are tough but there are jobs out there. Many, many people abuse the welfare system. I don't agree with how it is set up either. I think it should geared to those who try to help themselves, not those that sit around and do nothing except have more children (they can't afford), spend money on designer clothes, new cars, just to name a few; while I bust my ass to make ends meat to support my family and theirs.



I do agree and understand with this. While I was pregnant I was unable to work due to medical issues, I tried to get cash assistance and they informed me..quote "You are not eligable for this program because you live with your babies daddy. Now if you were to move out on your own till the baby is born then you will alotted a certin about of money. If you were to marry the babies daddy you will not qualify either due to the fact that he works."
That is bullshit! There are so many good for nothings living here in town that do jack shit and get cash assistance. The cash they recieve they spend it on nothing but Meth. They don't even feed their children!

They offer medicaid to all the same people but when Mesto or myself try to get it now they tell us that you have to make less than $300.00 a month! A MONTH! That is less than our house payment. :horse:

Yes, we could be worse off...but hell...as our agent has informed us, again I quote "You would be better off quitting your job(s) and living off welfare." How is that even close to being right?! These people that live purely off welfare drive nicer vehicles, dress nicer and tend to live nicer than I do.

Like I said, in a way I agree with the drug testing but then again I don't. Maybe it's because I see it more personal. $25.00 a week for a bag of weed to get us by does not add up to much. Then when you are growing your own, yes it is a bit of $$$ to get it started but in the long run you make up for it.

Also, if you are living in a medical state and you are on welfare...they really can't test you. So would that be discrimination? Mesto has crohns...so a bowl or two a night helps with the pain. Hell the pills they gave him to take do jack shit and made him worse off. He started smoking again and felt much better by the end of a bowl. So if they test him then they cut us off and what happens to our kids down the road. We give up the :rasta: and Mesto lives in pain. Its catch 22.

#6 dead_diver

dead_diver

    Stoned Since '76

  • OG VIP
  • 3,541 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:06 PM

600,000 welfare recipients x $30 per test = $18,000,000! I'm sure this huge amount of money that could be made by the drug test companies has absolutely no influence in the decision to enact this bill ;-). The taxpayers of KY will end up paying for it because the people on welfare are already broke. Sounds like more corporate welfare for drug test companies to me.

#7 Bobcat

Bobcat

    Selah!

  • Expired Member
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:43 PM

They would probably get them much cheaper in such a huge bulk order.

I agree with most of the above comments. I dont like the drug testing thing, really. But in the end, I want my tax dollars to go for food for those that really need it. Not for people to get high with. If someone is gonna get high with my money, it better damn well be me.

But also, there's people that really need this shit and can't get it. It's especially unfair to them.

And it's not just welfare.... I know a guy that is fit and in his 20's and hasn't worked in a couple of years cause he gets unemployment. I know another lady who could be working but doesn't for the same reason, she sucks the well dry. And on top of it, she is doing online classes for a masters with fed student aid. She's in her 50's, so she isn't ever gonna pay that back either.

It's just too much for me.

#8 imsodangraw

imsodangraw

    Eurhythmicist

  • Expired Member
  • 726 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:20 PM

Yeah I hate to say anything about unemployment here because I've heard so many Topiates talk about signing up for it. And I've seen many accounts of once signing up, they just ride the wave and don't even search for a job when they are fit to. I don't mean to step on toes, but that's :bs:

#9 BetweenSpace

BetweenSpace

    Mr. Growitall

  • Expired Member
  • 299 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:26 PM

So I'll give an example,
Mr. J, Disorganized type Schizophrenic-Affective. He's tried to work since age 11 and on the books since age 14. Every job he's quit under stress or just simply losing sanity (stress influences the more detrimental "symptoms"), or gets fired until - age 24. Finally, after applying for disability since age 17 he gets $685 every month for free!... That is until the government checks his own body for what he's consumed on this planet, may I add the planet not made by a government atleast as we know it.

Mr. J, test is complete and after Mr. J's own beliefs and reasoning the test has shown positive for some of the "Just Say No" substances. Thanks Nancy, that's one human being who needs to struggle without community help.

I must add since that was partially made up (taking a test), Mr J just ducks from bullies so that he won't be in a cage. A human in a cage.. put in there by another human. Can you not see the insanity there? Mr. J ends up trying his hardest to find food or grow food, and some things just don't add up. It's because the land he lives in is no longer a community. It's a system. Nothing is given, not food, clothes, housing.. The system chose his life for him. The system of rule ruled that Mr. J must be in a cage or without food both provided by said system if Mr. J consumes certain substances.

I'm a part of community and I'm also an artist. I'd trade a woven fabric, or painted canvas for food, or money to buy food. But I guess that's all I've got goin' for me. In a land with cages, and I'll consume with this body as I see fit for this body, even while I'm duckin' a baton or running to stay out of one of the cages. A true rebel. And I'll be Mr. J so when they reach out to hand me a cup to give them my bodily fluids, I'll say "I'm not that kinky Doc., and by the way you won't be seeing me in your office again - regardless"

I'll hold my dignity, and if you're a taxpayer, Thanks for giving a helping hand to man who's trying to work. Regardless of whether or not I have illegal drugs in MY BODY, my body is none of your business.

#10 Danko

Danko

    Heathen

  • Expired Member
  • 421 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:41 PM

I don't think this country needs more piss tests. I think the idea that people are trading in their food stamps for drugs is greatly exaggerated. I don't know any drug dealers that accept food stamps. I don't think poor people should be blamed for the state that our country is in, in my opinion it has more to do with 2% of the population owning 98% of the wealth and the fact that we are constantly at war.

#11 BetweenSpace

BetweenSpace

    Mr. Growitall

  • Expired Member
  • 299 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:46 PM

I share the idea Hippie had, where are we going to draw the line? When are we as humans going to realize we don't have any justification ruling another's body? It's as if you are changing me when I am not changing you. But I guess there is justice, they get our money, while we get changed. What a great exchange, but I won't rant; instead simply
Rule isn't justice, Justice is freeing a bird after it's been caged, not while caging it
If we can't make justice make peace
  • Mermaidia likes this

#12 squizzlix

squizzlix

    Atlantean Twins

  • Free Member
  • 370 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:00 PM

if you can afford drugs
you can afford food.

#13 BetweenSpace

BetweenSpace

    Mr. Growitall

  • Expired Member
  • 299 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

That's true - if you can afford drugs, you can afford food. But still doesn't give a person the right to analyse what another person has consumed.

Do you pay taxes? It's up to you. I pay them sometimes, but hey, the grocery store, gas station, store at the mall, etcetera took them not the food stamp recievers. I had to pay them that to get my stuff. That's because if they didn't collect the big money boys would come knockin a their door. Then the grocery store owner, ect.., get put in prison or pays up. It's not about drugs, it's always about money.

#14 imsodangraw

imsodangraw

    Eurhythmicist

  • Expired Member
  • 726 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:56 PM

I'll hold my dignity, and if you're a taxpayer, Thanks for giving a helping hand to man who's trying to work. Regardless of whether or not I have illegal drugs in MY BODY, my body is none of your business.


if you can afford drugs, you can afford food. But still doesn't give a person the right to analyse what another person has consumed.


If I am handing you money you claim to be buying food with, and the circumstances I set in place are no drugs... those are the circumstances you choose to live by. Don't complain. If you don't want my money, don't take it.

Do you pay taxes? It's up to you. I pay them sometimes, but hey, the grocery store, gas station, store at the mall, etcetera took them not the food stamp recievers. I had to pay them that to get my stuff. That's because if they didn't collect the big money boys would come knockin a their door. Then the grocery store owner, ect.., get put in prison or pays up. It's not about drugs, it's always about money.


What? The grocery store isn't receiving my tax dollars. The welfare recipient is. Just because they spend their stamps at the store doesn't mean I should be pissy at the store. It's like giving a homeless guy a few bucks for food and he goes to the liquor store and buys beer, then getting pissed at the liquor store.
There is no issue here about money. The issue is eliminating the people in the system that abuse it. Who is making a buck off this?

#15 alycewander

alycewander

    Learning to fly...

  • Expired Member
  • 420 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:27 PM

if you can afford drugs
you can afford food.


So, you are saying that my $25 a week for a bag ( saying I don't grow my own) is enough to feed my husband, my 4 kids and myself? You know that is only $100.00 a month. That is about 1/2 of what I spend weekly on food and I'm not even eating steak once a month.

Baby formula= $25.00 about every 3-4 days.
Dinner=$30+ every night
1 bag to help with crohns and the stresses of life=$25-$30 a week.

Now, we aren't saying the system isn't broken...sure people abuse the shit out of it...but why punish the ones that really just need that extra boost?


What? The grocery store isn't receiving my tax dollars. The welfare recipient is. Just because they spend their stamps at the store doesn't mean I should be pissy at the store. It's like giving a homeless guy a few bucks for food and he goes to the liquor store and buys beer, then getting pissed at the liquor store.


You did your good deed, what does it matter that he went to the liquor store? You don't judge a person by what they put in their body cause then what would be doing here other than judging each other?

I don't mean to step on any toes, its just MHO.

#16 tryptaminer

tryptaminer

    at this for life

  • Expired Member
  • 1,432 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:57 PM

excellent! I'm sure residents of Kentucky are sick of paying out of pocket taxes for welfare abusers..

not to mention taxes that pay for the methadone clinics that ensue...

#17 microscopeman

microscopeman

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 576 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:34 PM

hell yea! too bad crack is out of your system pretty quick. Also, there are false positives with drug testing. Furthermore, I hope this wont affect medical marijuana patients who need their medicine.

#18 Mermaidia

Mermaidia

    Sober Sister

  • Expired Member
  • 4,173 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:40 PM

Between, I am most certainly NOT talking about anyone similar to the example you have given. I am /was refering to a completely able body, who chooses not to work. Not someoone who wants to but can't.

#19 CoyoteMesc

CoyoteMesc

    howling mad

  • Expired Member
  • 4,313 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:41 PM

If I were to loan out my car to anyone willing to work that didn't have a job. I offer my car to anyone working that does not have transportation and that needs it.
My rule is simple, you take a breathalyzer before you leave with the car.

Its not my business if you drink nor is it mine if you drink and drive. I have no right to make you take that breathalyzer. BUT if you choose to take MY car I need assurance that you are sober. The risk of wrecking the car is far greater if you are drinking. (medical insurance gives breaks for acts such as drug testing)

So, If you dont want to take the breathalyzer, find another ride. Its that simple. Its an agreement. Dont take the car and bitch about how Im not fair. How I dont have the right to give you the test. You told me I could and that it was ok to do that when you signed the agreement and took the car.



#20 CoyoteMesc

CoyoteMesc

    howling mad

  • Expired Member
  • 4,313 posts

Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:50 PM

Oh, and the comment about drug testing costing lots of tax dollars.

Welfare was designed so that a person has a boost to get on their feet. Not to live on for life. There are other options for disability and folks that lose their jobs.
We're talking welfare here. I would imagine that those drug test will pay dividends when I comes to saving money. And yes, it is about the money because its our money that the government is spending. I want the money to be spent in a direction that is going to be the most productive for the program. I want to help people not adopt them as a dependent.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!