51 replies to this topic

[Djaanteh]

Djaanteh's Contribution - Endospore NOMORE!

Hello Fellow Mycotopians.

It is with lttle fanfare and much 'chutzpah' I offer a technical idea which I hope may prove to be all I have found it to be ime.
Never owned a PC before, and so buying, useing and caring for one has been a totally new experience. Needless to say in the endless forum foraging I have been engaged in, I encountered something called endospores.
Sure enough, after a few runs of sterilizing popcorn with foiled, tyvek covers, on perforated lids, in pint jars, I found these annoying little spots all over the bottom of my nice new PC.

So I scrubbed 'em out. Comet bleaching power, scouring pad, elbow grease. Look! See! Nothing! Gone! NOT!!!!

Like so many I found they come back.

In the discussions on PC contamination and endospores, I found it hard to fathom that anything could survive those temps.
Also that anything could get a 'molecular' grab on the stainless steel interior of the PC.

But after more than a few encounters, I decided to 'Djaan' my super cape and go stratosphere for answers.

Here then is the solution my "Higher Power" downloaded to me which I pass along to you. It has been tried (once) and tested, and proven to "APPARENTLY" completely and "PERMANENTLY" (theory to be tested) cleanse the interior of any PC.
The cleaning agent is one found in many (most) kitchen/bathrooms called:


CLR

It is much used in home cleaning even though it contains a couple of nasties.

Here is the contents from the label




and finally here is the interior of the PC AFTER the treatment. Sorry didn't get a before shot but you know what it looks like.



So all I did was wash any debris out of the PC and rinse it. Pour about 1/2 cup CLR into the PC. put the lid on but not the Bobber.

heat until the pressure lock comes on. Avoid breathing the fumes, corrosive and toxic. Have some ventilation available.

Remove from heat. using oven mitts, swirl the PC around to cover all the surfaces of the interior. Careful of the lid ports.

Rapid cool the PC by running cold water over the lid until the lock releases.

Open the lid. Swirl, empty, rinse, look deep within. Gasp!!!!

It's true!

It's gone. Nothing but shiny gleaming stainless steel.

Hope it works for you as it did for me.


btw the corn is doing great, presently supporting a lovely growth of Liberty Cap Mycelia. I say mycelia, because it is a pure culture obtained from dried cap tissue via 2 Agar transfers.





Sorry I forgot to resize the pics. - next post

just a preview of coming attractions.

Glovebox sleeves that will blow your mind, large installable injection patches, a tiny portable glovebox, an Oyster cloneing from store bought tissue, a collection of electrical tek-tips, and a few other innovations

Djaanteh

Edited by Freaky, 30 January 2011 - 09:42 PM.
fixed images

[Djaanteh]

I forgot to mention the importance of rinsing the PC with baking soda after the CLR treatment. adding a few tablespoons of Baking Soda to a cup of water in the PC, heating, swirling and rinsing a few times will remove the traces of acids remaining.

happy PC'ing

Djaanteh

[Theodore Blass]

i dont think a shiny p.c. is a good thing...looks like you took off a lot of the protective coatings, imo.

& endospores are microscopic btw...

[Djaanteh]

Hi Theodore

We'll if the endospores are microscopic, what's all the PC contam discussions I've read about. What are (WERE) those 1 - 2 mm spots on the bottom/sides of the PC that wouldn't go away.

And just what kind of protective coating on stainless steel we be talkin' 'bout?

Djaanteh

[roscoe]

dude nothing is "growing" in your pc..nothing alive anyway. those stains you are talking about are caused by the heating and cooling of the metal in the presence of water and other dissimilar metals. and are not a problem.

as far as heating up CLR. i think you better be careful!

oh and:

a collection of electrical tek-tips

:eusa_sile:eusa_sile:eusa_sile

[Theodore Blass]

that pressure cooker doesnt look like it is made of s.s.
most likely it is an aluminum pc
maybe im wrong
hate to rust over a p.c.

Endospore:
n.
CONTAMINANT
Pronunciation: ?n'd?-spôr

An endospore is a microscopic, highly resistant, non motile, non reproductive structures produced by a few types of bacteria as a result of tough environmental conditions to ensure survival because it allows the bacteria to remain dormant for extended periods of time.

taken directly from topia's definitons.

Edited by Theodore Blass, 30 January 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[5-MeO-DMT]

For sure nothing is growing. the color you are seeing as "endospores" is the natural oxidization which happens to most cookware over time. I bet the next time you use your PC it will come back quickly.

[dpwishy]

I have personally steamed popcorn jars,
they dont even need to be pc'ed.
So there is no need to worry about your pc,
that reaches even higher temps.
If steaming is sterile,
then I'd assume your pc is also.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[Phineas_Carmichael]

What are (WERE) those 1 - 2 mm spots on the bottom/sides of the PC that wouldn't go away.

Did they look like this?



These stains were the result of leaving mineral-heavy tap water acidified with glacial acetic acid in my aluminum PC and allowing it to evaporate because I happen to be a lazy *expletive*. Metals (even stainless) and water react strangely, especially in the presence of heat; it is best clean and dry the PC immediately after every run.

Don't be like me, clean your PC!

CLR is a mixture of nasty chemicals with a pH of around 2.0 according to the data I've found on teh interwebz. Tomorrow if I get time I plan to follow your instructions (minus the cooling the PC with water portion because the manufacturer's instructions that came with my PC explicitly forbid this) using a pH 2.0 solution of Acetic Acid. I'll take pics after the procedure and update.

[Djaanteh]

that pressure cooker doesnt look like it is made of s.s.
most likely it is an aluminum pc
maybe im wrong
hate to rust over a p.c.



taken directly from topia's definitons.

Nope
Definitely Stainless steel - A Fresco Model FPC-802S "Stainless Steel Pressure Cooker"

[iamsmiley]

i can just about guarantee you that you don't have "endospores" growing in your cooker. you may have bacteria growing in your cooker if you don't leave your lid ajar between cooks to let it air out and dry.i once got a nice big AA cooker off a buddy who always left the lid on his cooker,it stunk and was slimy and his wife would no longer let him use it in the house.i noticed this bacteria would grow in my cooker when i didn't remember/or know to leave the lid off if i didn't cook for a few days.i do bleach and rinse out my cookers once and awhile because rice sometimes gets in the bottom and can start to go bad.i also have really hard water that leaves a nice white film in my cookers.i do clean the outside of my cookers with degreaser sometimes to avoid contaminating my hard work because of cooking grease and house dust.my cookers are well used and one is older than i am,they aren't pretty but i did replace the gauges and blow offs last year.my cookers are like old whores,they don't look pretty but i can sure work the hell out of them!

[Djaanteh]

Did they look like this?



the manufacturer's instructions that came with my PC explicitly forbid this) .

LOL

The manufacturer of my PC explicitly directs this as the correct method to Rapid Cool the PC.

And mine is Stainless so I don't know if that makes a difference.

Djaanteh

[roscoe]

i also have really hard water that leaves a nice white film in my cookers

a quarter cup of white vinegar along with the normal amount of water should do wonders for that white film.

[Bobcat]

Can you post a link to a thread that discusses endospores in the cooker itself? Usually we speak of endospores being little nasties left in the grain that *sometimes* remain alive after sterilization (particularly after improper sterilization, but sometimes after proper as well).

So I'm not sure what you thought was going on, but I hope that helps.

I agree about the rapid cooling. Best to let it cool slowly.

[Phineas_Carmichael]

The manufacturer of my PC explicitly directs this as the correct method to Rapid Cool the PC.

And mine is Stainless so I don't know if that makes a difference.

Djaanteh

This makes all the difference in the world. Aluminum is a much "softer" metal than Stainless Steel. The data we are concerned with in this discussion is the coefficient of thermal expansion or in laymans terms, how much the material changes in volume per degree C change in temperature. Aluminum's volumetric CTE is 69 K^-1 while Stainless Steel's is 51.9 K^-1

Practically, this means that the volume of metal in my aluminum cooker changes 1.33 times more than your Stainless PC for every degree Celsius we change the temperature. This volume change isn't a problem if it happens slowly, but when it is sped up (by running cold water over the cooker) an aluminum cooker can "shatter" or warp.

The easiest common example of CTE is in borosilicate glass versus "regular" glass. A mason jar (regular glass) will shatter if you move it from a boiling water bath to a room temperature water bath, while a borosilicate vessel will not. This is because boro's CTE is 9.9 ppm/*C while "regular" glass's is 25.5 ppm/*C, a difference factor of 2.58!

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 30 January 2011 - 10:36 PM.
*sigh* punctuation

[Djaanteh]

Can you post a link to a thread that discusses endospores in the cooker itself? Usually we speak of endospores being little nasties left in the grain that *sometimes* remain alive after sterilization (particularly after improper sterilization, but sometimes after proper as well).

So I'm not sure what you thought was going on, but I hope that helps.

I agree about the rapid cooling. Best to let it cool slowly.

Bobcat

I did some searching and considering I've read thousands of posts in the last month, was lucky to find http://mycotopia.net...html#post188081

permalink#21 (in case it ain;t carried)

I had been following a series of links about this occurrence and while it's no big deal, it leaves my PC with a "corny" smell even after thorough cleaning. Since the CLR treatment, the spots and the corny smell are gone.
So maybe I repeated someone's assumption that the stubborn spots and odors in PCs were from "endospores" in that case I'll change the Thread title.
This has been a crash course in multidisciplinary training. I'm am positively blown away by how much I have learned from you guys and gals.

I've also leaned to stick my neck out and risk getting it garroted.

Gusto!

Djaanteh

[Djaanteh]

This makes all the difference in the world. Aluminum is a much "softer" metal than Stainless Steel. The data we are concerned with in this discussion is the coefficient of thermal expansion or in laymans terms, how much the material changes in volume per degree C change in temperature. Aluminum's volumetric CTE is 69 K^-1 while Stainless Steel's is 51.9 K^-1

Practically, this means that the volume of metal in my aluminum cooker changes 1.33 times more than your Stainless PC for every degree Celsius we change the temperature. This volume change isn't a problem if it happens slowly, but when it is sped up (by running cold water over the cooker) an aluminum cooker can "shatter" or warp.
!

here's the page from the user manual
 

 

Edited by Sidestreet, 06 September 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Phineas_Carmichael]

here's the page from the user manual

Cool man.

I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't do what you've been doing, only that I cannot replicate your procedure exactly according to the scientific method because my dirty PC is not made from the same material as yours.

Here's the page from my user manual. Step 11 clearly says I cannot run cold water over my PC while its still hot.

[Ben Dover]

I've only seen little PC like the one pictured that says you can run water over it to cool it quicker.

Don't do this with the big ones unless your manual says you can.

As mentioned the spots are minerals from the water collecting. Same thing that happens to things in your bathroom which CLR is advertised for.

Seen anyone have a pot of water on their heater? If they use it all winter it will look like they threw a handful of sand in it.

[Djaanteh]

I've only seen little PC like the one pictured that says you can run water over it to cool it quicker.

Don't do this with the big ones unless your manual says you can.

As mentioned the spots are minerals from the water collecting. Same thing that happens to things in your bathroom which CLR is advertised for.

Seen anyone have a pot of water on their heater? If they use it all winter it will look like they threw a handful of sand in it.

i am very familiar wth mineral buildup. This is different. There is a strong lingering "corny" smell even after it's cleaned and dried. The bottom of the pot is sprinkled with slightly rough spots about 1 to 2 mm in diameter.

The problem occurred after steriilizing corn with large (1/2") TYvek airports in pint jars. Although there was no evidence of spillage, the spots and smell remained and all other "gentle" cleaners left a faint visible trace no amount of rubbing could erase.

It was an aesthetic problem. I didn't like the smell, and I felt the spots should submit to me. Guess I thought someone else might value the tip.
If not, it'll hit the thread pit and languish there until some noobie resurrects it like I did by createing a solution where none was required.

We'll see.

Djaanteh