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Rue seeds to pure crystals...


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#1 Bluejay

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 09:56 PM

I have decided to revisit this old friend again after reading how easy it possibly is to get no puking crystals..

Let me see If I am getting this...

Soak seeds in a hcl water(ph 5)

Add 1/3 of heavily saturated salt water(rock not table salt)

Chill and syring out the top layers of liquid with out distubing the formed crystals...clean up crystals with methyl alcohol,,

Sounds to easy..

Here is the original text page I found...Is it really that easy?


DOSE :25 mginsufflatedHarmala (powder / crystals)
BODY WEIGHT :165 lb

At this moment I am looking at my Harmine HCL crystals growing on a plate... I saw this extraction somewhere else on the net, and didn't know If anyone had tried it, but it works... The first time I tried it I didn't get the 4 mm long crystals that I was supposed to get, but the whole extraction process I went through just became a cluster fuck in my kitchen... I hadn't cleaned all my glass properly, and I didn't have what I needed at that time....

Now I have seen harmine hcl for sale online and in can cost as much as $100 a gram, and you can buy a pound of seeds for less than half that and do your own extraction.... hmmmm

Anyway, here is the process I used to get the beautiful 1-4 mm long crystals growing on my plate... I don't even know who's process this is that I am stealing, but the one I use is for chem idiots like me, no math or any thing involved...

Step one:
Take your harmala seeds and boil 'em ( you can add an acid or not. I always add a little vinegar, never measure though). When they have boiled for about 30 mins, strain the water with a tea strainer into a pyrex measuring cup/mixing bowl thing you can get from a grocery store. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container.

Step two:
Dump the seeds and wash the pot you were using. Boil some water and add rock salt (important to use rock salt because there is noting add to it, regular table salt fas stuff add to it. If you have to use table salt, make sure it doesn't have Iodine in it). Keep adding rock salt to your booiling water 'till No more disolves, so now you have a super saturated salt-water solution....

Step three:
Strain the hot salt water into you hamarla boilings to keep out the salt rocks, Only adding enough salt water so that you have 2 or 3 parts harmala-water and 1 part Salt-water. I try to make sure that I have 3 times as much harmala solution as I have salt water.

Step four:
Stir it all up, then add a little bit of cold water to aid in the cooling of the mixture...SOMETHING should precipitate out. That's a good thing: the crystals form when the temp of the solution drops. Put it in the freezer for an hour. After that put it in the fridge for a few hours (longer if ya like, but three of four hours is what I did).

Step five:
There should be a whole bunch of crystals and grunge at the bottom of your container It doesn't matter how big the crystals are just yet.... I could hardly notice that they were actually crystals, the just happened to be about 1 mm little needles. Now it should be strained again...I used a bandanna to strain, but a t-shirt will work... Put your filter cloth over the top of a big stock pot and slowly pour you crungy/crystal solution through it... Now you can dump the shit in the pot outand lay your t-shirt over the pot under a fan to dry out...

Step six:
It should look like you have extracted sparkling dirt from the seeds... Scrape all your sparkling dirt off your t-shirt and into a clear glass container and add just enough methyl alcohol (ethyl should work too though, and you will know when there's enough you'll have yellowish/reddish/orangish alchy with brown shit in the bottom). The sparkles dissolve and the crunge doesn't... strain again through a t-shirt and into your a flat Pyrex baking dish or onto a clear plate. Place under a fan or somewhere with adequate ventilation and wait and watch....


Beautiful crystals

This is what Legal highs has to say about harmine

HARMINE -- 7-methoxy-1-methyl-9H-pyrido (3,4-b) indole.

Material: Indole-based alkaloid found in several places including
_Banisteriopsis caapi_ (from which the South American hallucinogenic
brew yage is prepared), _Peganum harmala_ (Syrian rue), _Zygophyllum
fabago_ and _Passiflora incarnata._

Usage: 25-750 mg harmine (see effects) is ingested on an empty
stomach. In its hydrochloride form harmine may be snorted (20-200
mg). Injection dosges are smaller: SC 40-70 mg, IV 10-30 mg.
Absorbed poorly through stomach. Small doses (20-200 mg) effective
intrabuccally and sublingually.

Effects: Harmine and related alkaloids are serotonin antagonists,
hallucinogen, CNS stimulants, and short-term MAO inhibitors (100 x MAO
inhibition of improniazid but lasting only several hours). Small
doses (25-50 mg) act as mild and therapeutic cerebral stimulant,
sometimes producing drowsy or dreamy state for 1-2 hours. Larger
doses up to 750 mg may have hallucinogenic effect, the intensity of
which varies widely with the individual. Doses of 25-250 mg taken
with LSD or psiolcybin alter the quality of the experience of the
latter. Telepathic experiences have been reported with this
combination.

Contraindications: Harmine is a brief MAO inhibitor. It should
not be used with alcohol and certain foods and drugs (see list). When
snuffed, harmine may be slightly irritating to nasal passages. Large
amounts may depress CNS. Since individual sensitivity varies this may
occur with 250-750 mg.

Supplier: CS.

Note: Notes on other harmala alkaloids: Different harmala
alkaloids vary in potency. The equivalent of 10 mg harmine is 50 mg
harmaline, 35 mg tetrahydraharman, 25 mg harmalol or harmol, 4 mg
methoxyharmalan. Harmal alkaloids are synergistic (mutually
potentiating) and are therefore most effective when combined in an
appropriate balance. Tropines (belladonna alkaloids) also potentiate
harmals. Harmol and harmalol (phenols) in overdoses can cause
progressive CNS paralysis.


I have snorted it.... it gives good dreams.... makes my mind work in an interesting way (and faster)... Seemes to be an aphrodisiac for me (very interesting effects here). It is numbing to the tongue; burns like hell when snorted; tastes like an alkaloid (very bitter); It also makes my spit and piss glow in unde Blacklight. It doesn't cause me anywhere near the nausea that regular Harmala brews and extracts do, and I have not tried it as a MAOI for tryptamines.

I hope this will be somewhat helpful for others.


Exp Year: 2002ID: 12978Added: Jun 25, 2002

#2 condo_pygmy

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 10:52 PM

Good report on Harmaline extracts.
Swim has smoked 30mg's of Harmaline Freebase then waited about 20 minutes,
smoked a mear 30mg's of spice which totally prolonged visuals & no nausea !!

#3 Guest_pissybee_*

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:16 AM

Thanks for the write-up, lookin good!! :teeth:

#4 shimmy

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:12 PM

does anyone have any experiece taking this with mescaline

#5 I_am_me

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:15 PM

I believe that could be a bad combination as mesc is closely related to amphetamines which is a bad combo with maois.

#6 skullfarmer

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 07:22 PM

how stable are harmala alkaloids?do they degrade fast once extracted?

#7 mindovermycelia

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 09:26 PM

are these crystals pure harmine?

are the other potent chemicals lost in the extraction?

#8 Spark

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 10:20 PM

very detailed write-up.

#9 Hippie3

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 07:49 AM

from archives

Take rue, powder it, place it water with small amount of acetic acid (distilled vinager) bring to simmer, cool and strain, repeat at least once, on the last batch, add the strained water hot and dissolve a good quantity of non iodized salt into the water, place in fridge/freezer (watch it so it don't freeze and break your container) and cool down to really cold, brownish orange flakes will percipitate out, let set in fridge until flakes settle to bottom, pour off excess liquid, then filter the rest through a coffee filter, wash with cold salt water, dry and scrape off the powder.

This is extremely efficient and I understand is the technique used in the field to test for harmaline.

From "The Alkaloids" Vol II (p393), Mankse:

"The crushed seeds of Peganum Harmala are covered with three times their weight of water containing 30 g of acetic acid per liter of water [white vinegar is about 50g / l or 5 %]. The seeds swell as they absorb the liquid and form a thick dough which is pressed after 2-3 days. The pressed seeds are once more treated as above with twice their weight of dilute acetic acid and, after maceration, the liquid is again pressed out. To the combined liquors, sodium chloride [that's salt, man] (100g. / liter of liquid) is added to transform the acetates of harmine and harmaline into the hydrochlorides which are insoluble in cold sodium chloride solutions and are precipitated during cooling. The supernatant liquid is siphoned off, the crystalline residue filtered with suction and redissolved in hot water.

Addition of sodium chloride to the filtered solution causes the precipitation of the hydrochlorides as a crystalline mush and this process is repeated until the hydrochlorides have acquired a yellow color (for the purposes of this newsgroup, once is enough). The final product is then recovered by filtration."

Yield is about 4% of dry seed weight.

While this procedure is legal in the U.S. (where harmine and harmaline are currently unscheduled), it is illegal in Canada where harmine and harmaline are Schedule III. These are extremely potent alkaloids. Misuse of them can result in serious, even fatal, consequences. Read the info about MAO inhibitors.


Comments on this method by Dirk:

White vinegar contains 5 to 10% (5% is 50g/l), look at the label, dilute as appropriate. Say you want 500ml of 30g/l (=3%) starting with 8% vinegar you'd add 500x3/8 = 187.5 ml of 8% vinegar to 500-187.5 = 312.5 ml of water.

Supernatant is the liquid standing aove the precipitate. Pour as much as possibly off very carefully.

Well i tried it with suction on a buchner filter with a scintillated glass disk. Sound good no ? Well the filter clogged up immediately. There's still some red gum in there. Don't exactly remember how i got around this; possibly used a coffee filter (that ripped). Next time i think i would look for a finely woven cloth.

After dissolving it in hot water you can filter it again, collect the water and add the right amount of salt. The amount of water to use should be minimal (minimizing loss because of the harmaline/harmine that doesn't precipitates), but not too little (loss through the amount of liquid that gets retained by the filter paper).

The paper {Hasenfratz et al., Ann. chim (10) 7,15l (1927)} then goes on to describe the separation of harmine from harmaline, but this procedure is slightly more complicated and not necessary for most purposes. The separation requires the use of a microscope and is based on the fact that when a warm aqueous solution of the hydrochlorides is alkalinized with ammonia, harmaline is liberated only after the decomposition of harmine hydrochloride is complete {harmine forms long needles; harmaline forms plates}). After separation the 2 salts are then further purified by recrystalisation of their salts.

I've found that harmaline and harmine are quite stable in acid solutions even at boiling water temperatures, however when the pH is raised to 11 or more boiling will rapidly remove the fluoresce of the solution (an indication that harmaline and harmine are being destroyed under these conditions).


Ann. chim (10) 7,15l (1927)

The separation of harmaline from harmine is based on the fact that when a warm aqueous solution of the hydrochlorides is alkalified with ammonia, harmaline is liberated only after the decomposition of harmine hydrochloride is complete. The appearance of harmaline is readily detected under the microscope since it consists of plates while harmine forms long needles. The addition of ammonia, therefore, is stopped as soon as crystals of harmaline are detected, the harmine is filtered off and the harmaline recovered from the filtrate by the addition of ammonia, The bases are then further purified by recrystallization of their hydrochlorides.


(discussion about this extraction procedure)
> ...My question is this: will this extraction actually work? I didn't think
> acheiving the HCl would be that easy! I've recently been thinking about how to
> convert pure, crystalline, already-extracted freebase of a syrian rue extract
> into the HCl form, but that would be a lot of work (adding the right amount of
> moles to the right amount of harmala freebase--too technical), whereas the
> above method claims to extract the HCl directly from the acetic acid solution.
> I don't know too much chemistry, so pardon my ignorance here. All responses
> would be most appreciated!

I think the driving force for this reaction (the converting to the HCl salt) is the fact that the HCl salt is insoluble. Thus it seems to "disappear" from the right side of the harmaline-acetic salt <--> harmaline-HCl salt equation. So even if the dfisplacement of the acetate by the Cl is not favorable, giving an equilibrium concentration favoring the acetate, as the HCl salt crashes out of solution, the equilibrium will try and be maintained, forcing more of the HCl salt to be formed.

I do think this would work, but Id be careful not to add too much NaCl, or else you will get it crashing out as well when you cool. This will skew your yield and cause you to think you have more harmaline than you have. Cooling slowly may help this problem as well (keeping the solution supersaturated with NaCl instead of precipitating out).

psilo


Bilbo's Comments On Syrian Rue Extraction: (1996)

Do try to *defat* the potion while it is still in the acidic aqueous phase. You can then get rid of the oily residues then, then change the aqueous to a basic solution @ pH9 - 10, and multiply extract THAT into your non polar solvent; evaporate, and try. Be very conservative with measuring your dose. Anything over 100 mg. of extract should be aproached with caution.



also see
http://mycotopia.net...es/5/28423.html

#10 mindovermycelia

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:26 AM

I think I am just going to boil the seeds three times in lemon juice water and let them evaporate to powder, then smoke it. Anyone ever try this? I don't want the crystals because I want all the potent alkaloids when I smoke it. The truth is that I am looking for a mj substitute because my wife needs to quit for awhile till she gets a job.
She is graduating from pharmacy school soon, one more week of rotations.
:eusa_danc

So I found this here: http://www.lavondyss...de/harmala.html


Ingesting a "potentiating" dose of Harmala produces feelings of subtle energy flowing and a slight enhancement of perception. Concentrated Harmala may be smoked for a more mind/less body oriented high, often with feelings of euphoria and relaxation. I find it a nice alternative to a cannabis high, more meditative and relaxed.


and


Syrian Rue and other sources of Harmala can also be extracted. Gracie and Zarkov used vodka as a solvent. The extract I tried has some advantages over the seed form. It can be smoked, which produces a very nice high and comes on within minutes. And the extract, smoked or ingested, seems to produce less nausea and other physical symptoms for the same intensity of high. However, smoking Harmala won't produce as long-lasting an effect as ingesting, when used alone as well as when used to enhance other psychedelics.


also he mentions in another chapter smoking the crushed seeds:

I began the evening by dropping 250 mics of acid. This was consumed by nearly all present. I then took a hit of ecstasy since they were being passed around. And after I mentioned that I brought some DMT, one of my friends whipped out some ground Syrian Rue seeds and a pipe. Smoking non-extracted Syrian Rue can hardly be considered a satisfactory method of assimilating enough Harmala to act as a DMT potentiator, but it does produce an effect. Smoking just a few hits of these seeds while high on acid produced a pleasant buzz. And we figured that the small amount of Harmala would also act as a synergistic enhancement for the DMT.


I don't think I want to try that - the only problem I will have after doing the lemon water extract is figuring how much to dose/smoke. I will probably resort to eyeing it somehow, starting small and working my way up to a good buzz.


#11 shimmy

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 10:24 AM

can ground seeds easily be eaten on there own ?

#12 skullfarmer

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 11:52 AM

I think I am just going to boil the seeds three times in lemon juice water and let them evaporate to powder, then smoke it. Anyone ever try this? I don't want the crystals because I want all the potent alkaloids when I smoke it.


the crystals are the potent alkaloids.

and the tek is a little off
you don't end up with "crystals", you end up with a orange powder.

can ground seeds easily be eaten on there own ?


yes they can, put em in capsules.

One tsp = 3 g which is a potentiating dose and also gives some mild psychedelic effects alone.

spread out ingestion a little over time to help avoid nausea, I never experienced any till maybe 6 hrs after the only time I tried them, but I think that was due to the shrooms I ate an hour or so after the seeds. I puked shrooms, but just a little and I had to force myself.

Edited by Beast, 06 September 2009 - 03:27 AM.


#13 shimmy

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 02:30 PM

how long does it take to feel the affects when would be the best time to ingest mushrooms and how was your experience?

#14 mindovermycelia

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 03:22 PM

I think I started feeling the effects about an hour after ingestion but it could take two from what I've read

Take the shrooms anywhere between and 30 min and about 2 hrs afterwards

My friend did it at the same time but I took 2g of shrooms in capsules and he just ate his 2 g like usual. His trip was very intense and the peak lasted longer than usual, but for me the shrooms took longer to kick in and it seemed like a gradual increase in intensity that never really peaked very strongly, but it lasted a long time and there were a few intense waves in there. I assume the difference was in the ingestion method, the caps delivering shrooms to my system gradually over time, but he could have gotten more aborts or something like that- in other words, a more potent 2g. My trip did last longer than usual. I found out that it may be a good thing that mushrooms don't make you trip as long as acid because I was actually wanting to come down towards the end and that has never happened to me on acid. There may have been other factors involved to make me feel that way though, like the fact that I had just tried salvia to full effect for the first time the previous night and I was worried about my relationship with my son at the time.

#15 skullfarmer

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 06:06 PM

so the crystals, or extract, from the tek at top contain all three alkaloids - hamine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine?



yes it does.

#16 mindovermycelia

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:15 PM

well damn

I guess I should have used a pyrex dish instead of tupperware - I overlooked that detail somehow - but I thought I would get a crusty substance that could be scraped and powdered. What I got was gummy resin that I could barely scrape from the tupperware so I decided to reconstitute it, which worked to my surprise, and do the whole extraction posted at the top except that I already have the rue water minus some good stuff that I lost due to my mistake.

I thought it would evaporate to a powdery substance based on the lemon juice tek described on erowid. Oh well.

#17 grimblegrumble

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:53 PM

I'm digging this back up to ask a Question.
In regards to the tek way up top, step six.
What other suitable, easily found solvent can I use besides methyl, ethyl, or iso alcohol?
Methyl is not easily available, Ethyl is only available upto 75% in my area, and iso, well it's iso and only available up to 91%.
What about Denatured alcohol?
From what I read though it sounds like you cannot be too sure what is added.

literally hundreds of recipes for denaturing ethanol. Typical additives are methanol, isopropanol, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, denatonium, and even aviation gasoline.

Does anyone know a brand of denatured that is just ethyl and methyl?
What should I use?

#18 catfish

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 11:33 PM

grimble-
take your 91% iso and add soem of that rock salt to it, ground up real fine like, then shake it up well and you will see a cloudy lower layer and a clear upper layer: the upper layer is the 99% iso you are looking for.
denatured ethanol is a crap shoot unless you know exactly which formulation you have.
peace

#19 grimblegrumble

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 12:41 AM

Thanks.
That's probably what I'll do.

#20 grimblegrumble

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 04:31 PM

Here is my result from 50gr seeds after step 5.
Sparkling dirt?
It looks more like gold flakes to me.
Does this look clean enough to smoke Ok without step 6?
How much should I try?
On top of some herb?
Unfortunately my plans over the next couple days will not allow me to follow the necessary diet precautions.

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