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stupid ph [acidifying with HCl and basifying with NaOH]


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#1 ulatek

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 11:32 PM

the damn spongey thing on my ph tester fell off in SWIMs jug during basification, SWIM can see it floating around in there between the naptha/other junk .. will this fuck it up ? its near impossible to get out without spillage

#2 Hippie3

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 08:47 AM

what did you end up doing ?

#3 smacked12

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:23 PM

the damn spongey thing on my ph tester fell off in SWIMs jug during basification, SWIM can see it floating around in there between the naptha/other junk .. will this fuck it up ? its near impossible to get out without spillage


oh s..t, i'm laughing my a.. off at this.

i dropped my eye dropper in the bottle last week on the first naptha pull so i know how it feels. it took me a good 30 minutes to get that sucker out.

#4 ulatek

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 07:24 AM

just left it in there lol, it was still pretty much intact when i turkey-basted the clear stuff out.. so far it looks fine,there was no way in hell that thing was coming out. i just really need to find out where to get ph strips that will go to 14 , all the ones ive seen only hit 9 ... besides the 70$ electronic one who sponged in my spice, in my panic i broke the dam bulb on the end of it by wiping it vigorously thinking "work, you bastard" ... it was all like 12.3 , 2 ,9 ,13.3 , 6 ... u get the idea *sigh*

#5 Hippie3

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 07:26 AM

yep, fried a few in my hydro daze. fragile and expensive little bastids.

#6 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 07:30 AM

waterproof floating ph meters are relatively cheap on ebay
dunno how they'd hold up in naptha tho:crazy1:

#7 Hippie3

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 07:31 AM

doesn't go to 14, tho...
pretty sure that
red beat = red beet, just typo'd.

by pissybee

you can make your own test strips by chopping up red cabbage and boiling it for about 20-30 mins, then strain the cabbage, and you can use small amounts of liquid in a glass. Just add a drop or two of the liquid to be tested to the purple cabbage juice, or do what I do and dip coffee filters in it then cut into strips and let them dry. This will give you PH paper. I posted some color charts in the attachments...

http://mycotopia.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1738&d=1110379322

Attached Thumbnails

  • ph-cabbage.jpg


#8 TheAngryGolfer

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 10:36 AM

just left it in there lol, it was still pretty much intact when i turkey-basted the clear stuff out.. so far it looks fine,there was no way in hell that thing was coming out. i just really need to find out where to get ph strips that will go to 14 , all the ones ive seen only hit 9 ... besides the 70$ electronic one who sponged in my spice, in my panic i broke the dam bulb on the end of it by wiping it vigorously thinking "work, you bastard" ... it was all like 12.3 , 2 ,9 ,13.3 , 6 ... u get the idea *sigh*


I have PH strips that go to 14 but they are usless because whan you stick them in the basified solution it stains them so you cant read it anyway.

#9 marsofold

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 01:48 PM

The best way to determine the ph is just to calculate from the chemical equation what mass of base is needed to reach neutrality. Then calculate the mass of base needed to reach the desired ph. No ph testers or strips needed...

#10 lyqwyd

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 03:09 PM

Well, i was going to try to explain that formula in words but I failed miserably since i am so out of practice in the chem math dept. U wanna give it a go, mars? i can look it up in my chem books if not. basically, the same MASS (not volume) of NaOH is used to neutralize the same MASS of HCl. the mass depends on the volume and concentration of the acid/base u are using. please please correct me if im wrong. H+ + OH- --> a salt + H20 also, pH or pOH in the case of a base is really the -log[H+]. pH = 3 therefore
[H+] = 10^3 M molar is moles per liter (right? its been awhile)

#11 marsofold

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 05:34 PM

Here's the easiest way to calculate it:
For acidifying with HCl and basifying with NaOH:
HCl + NaOH --> NaCl + H2O
Then look up the molecular weights online with a periodic table:
36.5grams + 40grams.
Ratio of NaOH to HCl is 40/36.5 = 1.1
For an acid ph of 3 in a gallon of water use this online ph calculator:
http://www.sensorex....calculator.html
Which indicates using 0.15grams of HCl. For a 30% concentration:
0.14/.30 = 0.47 grams. At an approximate specific gravity of 1:
0.47 grams x 1ml/gram x 20drops/ml =

10 drops of HCl per gallon needed!


To calculate the lye needed to get to neutrality:
0.47 grams HCl x 1.1 (from the ratio) = 0.52 grams.
To calculate how much additional is lye needed to go from neutrality(ph7)
to a of ph 13.4 in a gallon of water use the same online calculator,
selecting for sodium hydroxide: 38 grams.
Total lye needed for a gallon extraction solution to reach a ph of 13.4:
38 grams + 0.52 grams = 38.52 grams.

38.52grams/gallon of lye needed! :D

#12 TheAngryGolfer

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 10:10 PM

isnt it 70 grams of lye if you use vinegar instead of HCL?

is there any real advantage to using HCL?

#13 marsofold

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 03:50 PM

Yes, it is. Much more acetic acid is needed to reach the usual ph. Which requires more lye for neutralizing to a ph of 7. Vinegar produces easily seen brown emulsions, while HCl produces less visible pale gray emulsions. And vinegar is more forgiving of concentration errors. The main advantage of using HCl is to process bulk amounts of MHRB, thus avoiding having to use inconveniently large amounts of vinegar.

#14 cheech

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 03:41 PM

thanks for the review of the way to do the calculations!

the natural acid of the bark is not taken into account tho......
i haven't used any acid in a few extractions and still got the expected yeild.


as far as basification, i've found when the the layers separate in 60 seconds or so enough naoh has been added to get the ph up to where it needs to be.
:-)

#15 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:25 AM

doesn't go to 14, tho...
pretty sure that
red beat = red beet, just typo'd.
by pissybee
http://mycotopia.net...38&d=1110379322
http://mycotopia.net...36&d=1145709105

this here post needs to be archived to dmt and/or mesc., hip

#16 Hippie3

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:01 AM

ok,
i actually have it already
over on discus archives
but redundancy is good
and more here this thread worthy too besides just that

#17 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:05 PM

definitely! just quickly posted it in lieu of sayin archive material
i needed the cabbage test info for a friend and couldnt find it browsin
i think its also in the casings section of the vaults,
but, like u say, this whole thread is excellente' :cool:




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