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#41 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 11:14 PM

Now, now TV. No reason to scare the geese...

#42 helidude12

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:02 AM

Market speculation is well market speculation, whether you have a certain affinity for a company and believe it has a future, or you have some algorithm which you believe can predict the value of a stock for a few seconds. Either way it is all still speculation!

Furthermore it really doesn't have any thing to do with how fast or many times, its all about HOW MUCH. Those with the most capital will always control the market in a sense. Even though your girlfriend may tell you that your size doesn't matter, in the market i have found it to be quite contrary, at lest IMO.

i`m a little high:smoking:, or a lot, but that last sentence made no sense, flow wise, but i think its funny right now.
Enjoy:teeth:

Furthermore x 2... Regulation is already tight as hell IMO, about a year ago i had be tech support, essentially, for my father like every other week, hes old enough that technology has surpassed his mental capacity and dont even get me started on explaing it to him over the phone!!, but like every couple weeks he always has some shit from, wowww!!! i cant think of the name or acronym, well the agency regulating trade. btw its cuz he has a license and all. but he hadn't made made a trade since like a year before, or my time line is slightly off make all "year" quantites "8 months." but like i was saying he hadent traded since he fucked on his 80k shares of Wachovia, i suggested to sell out in the mid thirties but no he waited till it was like 22 or 18 or something, damn he really got screwed on that one, and to think he was only a couple years from retireing.
i cant remembefr what i was going to talk about and i relly dont feel ike re reading this post or wait its an edit. sorry if i, ranting a bit it looks like i typed a fair amount.
Good night and god bless.....wtf im atheist.... lol

Edited by helidude12, 08 June 2011 - 03:25 AM.
cuz ihad more to say!


#43 lambep

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:27 AM

BB, IMO whenever the relevant state agency (i.e. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)) authorizes electronic exchanges (i.e. 1998), non computerized "players" (or whatever is the term) in the stock markets have almost no chance against HF traders without computerizing their investment tactic.

BTW I've never used stock markets so I have no idea how it's actually done. I know basically what's done in stock markets - buying and selling stocks with the idea to speculate on their price to gain some money from the transactions. This is so prone to computerization...

That's the first time I see the term high frequency traders but I've always thought trading on stock markets is done using computer algorithms if electronic transactions are allowed. Also, I thought electronic transactions are allowed since the 80's which I found out to be false.

#44 TVCasualty

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 08:46 AM

Market speculation is well market speculation, whether you have a certain affinity for a company and believe it has a future, or you have some algorithm which you believe can predict the value of a stock for a few seconds.



High-frequency trading is not speculation. It is slipping a tremendous number of transactions into open trading between the time a stock starts a rally (or sell-off) and the time other brokers notice it. This can be as long as half a second, which is plenty of time for the computers in question to conduct millions of transactions (such as buying all the outstanding shares of a stock beginning a rally and then offering them for sale at a much higher rate all within the time it takes most brokers to read their screens and press a few buttons). The slowest link in most information technology systems is us (we take the computer equivalent of an eternity to type a word) and HF traders have figured out how to remove humans from the equation.

If it was speculation, they would lose money occasionally but the biggest HF trading players report making a profit every single day for four straight years (in one case). That's not very probable to say the least. The technological advantage is such that it's not even remotely close to a fair playing field at this point. Caveat emptor indeed...

#45 PsychonautPower

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:36 PM

To all you stock market fans, I recommend the movie: Wallstreet

#46 helidude12

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:56 PM

lol, the origional was good, with sheen, is the new one any good? i didnt see it.

also i was doing some research into hf trading, ive been out of the market and havent been keeping up with it like i should :spank:, but what i found was that basically the idea has caught on, but so many people are trying that the specific algorithms used are constantly figuired out or leaked to many hf traders, and when mulitiple HF traders have the same algorithms the algorithems wont work. thus unique algorithms are needed, and usually they only last a short period, a couple days maybe a week. I.E. there is not a big future for HF trading.

#47 ryanzreality

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:39 PM

seems like there is a great future if you can write new algorithms. Was there not a post in this thread about a guy that made money for 4yrs now?

I personally don't gamble with my money and that is all the stock market is. A gamble.

#48 pizark2

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:03 PM

How many times have we heard the right wingers predict the stock failure,and we see that prediction fail daily?
Lazlo-you're buying into conspiracy propaganda or it's happened and we are unaware
If you really want to double your money in 24 hours,bet on the shitty miami heat.
disclaimer- if you can/t afford to lose,don't take my "money double prediction" advice,but watch and see

Edited by riseabovethought, 05 August 2011 - 01:58 PM.
predictions


#49 pizark2

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:17 AM

Sorry,I can't edit my drunk talk from last night.:thumbdown::amazed::love:

#50 mycobri

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:28 AM

History repeats and humans travel in circles.
We started with barter and to barter we shall return.

lets just hope it is not anytime soon ;)

#51 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:13 AM

lthe idea has caught on, but so many people are trying that the specific algorithms used are constantly figuired out or leaked to many hf traders, and when mulitiple HF traders have the same algorithms the algorithems wont work. thus unique algorithms are needed, and usually they only last a short period, a couple days maybe a week. I.E. there is not a big future for HF trading.


The algorithms by themselves aren't enough. They also need the banks of supercomputers since "time is of the essence" as they say. Renting the use of the computers costs tens of thousands of dollars a month, so it's still a way of trading that has an expensive/exclusive barrier to entry.

As long as some people are trading the regular old way (where a half a second counts) alongside other people trading the new way (where microseconds count) then the first group will always be at a significant disadvantage. Since more traders are doing it, the guys on the leading edge have been moving into commodity and bond markets, and if we thought the last few speculative bubbles that eviscerated the world's economy were bad, imagine if bubbles could grow to monstrous proportions and then burst all within a fraction of a second. Add some basic Chaos Theory to the mix and things could really get interesting!

#52 ernestro

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

a big nasty explosion of reality cheques

#53 Lazlo

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:08 PM

Ok. So while some of you guys have been fitting me for a tin foil hat after me mentioning this, the US indices have had their worst 6 week run, since 2002. I understand. Popping in and calling for a market crash, seems batty, without an explanation. It was late and when the technical breakdown happened in the S&P 500 (what i've been patiently waiting for since last September), I HAD to pop in and warn you to watch your investments. You should be doing that, anyways. I don't have time right now, but i'll pop in tomorrow and explain my analysis. And rest assured, it's not based on "magic 8 balls", "right winger propaganda", or some stupid analyst. I do my own work and you can bet your ass if government spending isn't whacked 50+% and those cuts are used to fuel private sector incentives, the US is going to go down with the UK. Practically, following the playbook for the crash of 1937. The UK has already done so and the US appears to be doing the same. That's not the only reason i'm calling for a crash. That's piling onto other reasons that are more than capable of causing investor panic, alone. "Crashes". Several reasons in which i'll get into tomorrow. We're in big fuckin' trouble, here folks! Not my opinion, fact. One of the greatest market crashes in history, is underway. No way in heck would I come on the www. and mention this on several sites, unless I was 100% sure. Sites in which I contribute to market analysis and my opinion's respected. Work and our affiliates.

I'm not a call happy person, but my market timing is pretty damn good! Yes, i've gotten some stuff wrong in my days of trading the capitol markets. But, mainly in my early ones. You better hope i'm wrong again. Slim chance.

#54 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:49 PM

I'd like to raise a glass of beer hoping you are wrong in analyzing the markets.

I'd like to pass a glass bowl of my best bud hoping ya stay around and keep posting.

It's only paranoia if you are wrong...

#55 helidude12

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:19 PM

ryanzreality- i just feel the need to point out that the stock market is not gambling. when i was in high school i used that excuse to my father that i should be able to gamble all my money away:eusa_wall cuz he does that for a living, but i was wrong. stocks are like any posession you own, you can sell it at you own price, pretty much, the price of a stock is the price of the last recorded transaction. Futhermore people speculate on the futures of companies and stock, thus buy and sell the stock for more or less. No more gambling than selling a ps3 on craigslist, or selling a car, or buying anything in a negotiable situation or sorts.

Lazlo - How do you feel on the subject of another world war of sorts (maybe not to the same extent as ww1 and 2... but a large scale war)?, it feels like the situation is presenting itself.

#56 MycoDani

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:36 AM

I have an issue with stocks in that they are intangible in a way. If something happens your not getting any paper if you know what I mean.

I'm sticking with the tangible for now. Commodities are like gambling but at least you get something real. Some corporation doesn't have that.

My mom dated an Oil Trader and he said it's simple I could lose all my money Today and make it back Tomorrow that's just not the way I could risk things.

#57 pharmer

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:10 AM

ryanzreality- i just feel the need to point out that the stock market is not gambling. when i was in high school i used that excuse to my father that i should be able to gamble all my money away:eusa_wall cuz he does that for a living, but i was wrong. stocks are like any posession you own, you can sell it at you own price, pretty much, the price of a stock is the price of the last recorded transaction. Futhermore people speculate on the futures of companies and stock, thus buy and sell the stock for more or less. No more gambling than selling a ps3 on craigslist, or selling a car, or buying anything in a negotiable situation or sorts.

Lazlo - How do you feel on the subject of another world war of sorts (maybe not to the same extent as ww1 and 2... but a large scale war)?, it feels like the situation is presenting itself.


Right, kinda.

you can sell it at your own price whenever your own price comes around. Otherwise you sell it at today's market price. So it's a matter of waiting for your price or losing money in the meantime, or staying even in the meantime.

One out of three ain't bad - if you're willing to wait long enough and nothing goes wrong with the economy and the companies you've invested in don't wither or die and your profits aren't taxed to the point of unprofitability.

The sad fact is that there is no good place to put your money in these days unless you are willing to take a big risk. Even commodities can "correct" twenty percent on wild swings. God forbid you need to sell right after one of the corrections.

#58 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:38 AM

Futhermore people speculate on the futures of companies and stock, thus buy and sell the stock for more or less.


Speculation is what makes this kind of thing worse than gambling, because if you gamble and lose it's just you losing but speculation (or speculative bubbles, more specifically) is a large part of the reason the economy is kind of screwed right now so even if the gambler happens to win the rest of us tend to lose.

Frankly, so long as corporatism in its present form endures we will be on a steadily downward slope toward total collapse since no matter how we slice it it's a suicidally-cancerous paradigm (cancerous because it's all about never-ending unregulated growth which we call a 'tumor' if it happens inside our body and it's suicidal because it's a choice we're either collectively making or accepting because... here we are).

Once a critical mass of people are sufficiently disenfranchised from society, if history is any guide they're going to burn the whole thing down anyway since what do they have to lose? Or gain for that matter?

It's kinda tricky. I'm not a communist by any stretch, but I recognize that we'd better somehow accommodate the needs of the masses in one way or another if we want the game to continue. I'm not a gung-ho capitalist either, but I recognize the need to reward individual effort and/or initiative if we want our culture to evolve and be a place worth living in. Somewhere in the middle is a place where we can enjoy ourselves without destroying ourselves and as far as I can tell we'd better find it in the next few years or else we're ALL in deep shit.

#59 Lazlo

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:39 AM

Lazlo - How do you feel on the subject of another world war of sorts (maybe not to the same extent as ww1 and 2... but a large scale war)?, it feels like the situation is presenting itself.


Very well could! A lot of global tensions and they'll continue to mount, as the mess deepens. I hate to say it, but we may need a war to get us out of this economic decline! We're headin' toward wreckage here, folks. I'll get into details later, but too dang busy right now to be on here for an hour or so, explaining my views. This weekend, everyone will be gone from here and I can do so. Until then, watch out for regional manufacturing data coming out for NY and Philly. The US retail data is very important, as well. Along with CPI's out of UK and China. But, the manufacturing data is in high anticipation because regions like Richmond, KC and Chicago, are in contraction and pointing to recession. I'm not saying those readings are going to poor, but do watch them. I still think the overall market needs to see further confirmation of a recession type slowdown and we're getting back into that round of data now. But, if those manufacturing #'s come in weak on top of all the other poor readings that have been coming up globally for the past month +, it may push investors over the edge, heading for the exits.

Folks, we just took it on the chin with one hell of a commodity shock. That alone, was enough to put a strong economy into recession, much less a very weak one like we have now. And that's only 1 of a few triggers of recession that are all converging right now. I'll explain them later, as they'll take some time to do so.

http://www.forexfact...om/calendar.php If you're interested, that's a good calendar and right before the release, a green ball will come up and then after it, click the ball and the data will come up. That's just to get fast look at the reading after the release.

Gotta run. I'll pop in this weekend, after this stupid f'n wedding. :crazy1:

#60 asscore

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:32 AM

As far as I'm concerned if you believe in or participate in our modern financial bullshit you deserve everything you have coming.

I personally cant wait until the entire deck of cards falls, maybe then we have a chance that all the sheep will consider revolution. It's only 100 years or so overdue.
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