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Silly(c)One's first ventures into mycology


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#1 SillyCone

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:33 PM

Hello fellow shroomers :)


First, a few words about myself and my debuts in mycology... Also please bear with my english as it's not my native language.


My name is ***** ******* (hehehe), I live in Belgium and I'm an almost 40 yo ADHD in search of new experiences. Been growing my beloved plant for 20 years, I even administered my own forum (The Vibes Collective) about landraces preservation and cultivars for a few years...

So been there done that, I needed something new to try and grow. Of course, after weed, I needed something tricky to keep my interest peaked long enough in order to actually go to the end with it (Attention Deficit, got to live with it).

Guess what ? :D

It's now 2 months later, and I've spent hours and hours and hours reading and ordering on the net...

My lab was completed last month, from the laminar flow hood to the tools needed for Agar work, the FC and incubators are working perfectly and I made tens of experiences, from container sizes and lid teks to grain types and additives, on agar with peroxyde , with a few strains of psilos and edibles, namely :
- P.Cubensis Cambo/Z-Strain/Mex Dutch King/PF Red Spore,
- P.Atlantis,
- P.Mexicana A/Jalisco,
- PanCyan Jam/Hawaii/Goliath
- Psilocybe Azurescens Astoria Ossip
- Pleurotus Ostreatus/Djamor

None of them, except the Cambo that first came in a growbox from Holland (and that I kept on Agar and LC), have fruited yet. Quite a few have been lost to molds and bacterias, some aborted but still have a few ml left in a spore syringe and the rest are actively colonizing as my sterile technique finally got good enough to see fast mycelium growth. It's exciting as in the next few days, I'll be spawning my first jars and fruiting my first PF cakes of the PF Red Spore :dance:

The ones in the incubators are :
- P.Cubensis Cambo (WBS)/Mexican Dutch King (WBS)/PF Red Spore (rye & BRF)
- Panaeolus Cyanescens Hawaii (WBS & rye)
- Psilocybe Mexicana Jalisco (rye and BRF to fruit, lolium for sclerotias)
- Psilocybe Azurescens (secondary wood spawn in beech/chestnut for my back garden)
- Pleurotus Djamor (toilet paper :P)

I still got spores of P.C.Teonanacatl, PanGoliath, P.Mex.A for later grows and I'm expecting sclerotias from the mail (dunno if it's a sponsor here so won't name it) that I'll clone (right at reception, they should be fresh enough).
That particular vendor didn't have all of the sclerotias, but it was VERY cheap so I took the ones I didn't have in my genebox yet : Atlantis, Tampanensis and Pajaritos (I really don't know which strain it really is, though, probably a variant of Mexicana's from Guatemala - they wouldn't answer my scientific request ;))

Once I'll have successfully grown them, I'll order the last one missing from my collection, the Galandii.

I also found my first big project in magic mycology : grow P.Semilanceata indoors and make sclerotias of them... :evil:


That's enough for now, I'm still a newbie though as 2 months ago I had no clue as how to grow a shroom :smokin:

Feel free to comment !

Regards,
Silly©One.

Edited by SillyCone, 03 July 2011 - 12:21 AM.

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#2 AGAMA

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:59 PM

Welcome to Mycotopia, SillyCone!
Hey, with all that "experimentin'" goin' on,
you should post some pics.:cool:
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#3 SillyCone

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 11:48 PM

Hey thanks for the warm welcome :)

I'll definitely post pictures once there's some pinning to see...

As far as the experimenting goes, it's more like trying to make the most mistakes in the shortest time possible in order to gain experience as fast as I can so that the whole process goes smooth and thus let me experiment with strains rather than Teks all the time...

I can draw a few "conclusions" (I hate conclusions as much as Krishnamurti did ;)) as to the Teks I like best, though...

- skip the PF Tek as it's slower than grain. If it's to be used, try the following : in the BRF/verm mix, use 50% coffee solution instead of pure water, and try to stay on the dry side of "field capacity", in order to be able to add a somewhat larger quantity of inoculation liquid than the standard PF Tek "commands" so that the mycelium spots start bigger and lower in the jar (maybe it's me but it feels like mycelium grows faster up than down in my tiny PF Tek experience.) Also, as usual, it's faster to use LC than spores, but I found that if the syringe is old enough that the spores have visibly germinated in them, LC wasn't much faster (though I haven't tested LC in PF Teks up to now... might not for a while as I now much prefer grain in prevision of the big bulk grows... yay.

- use WBS instead of rye for spawn, as it's much cheaper and readily available, and in my experience works at least as good as rye if not faster. Also there's lot of corn in it, which my brazilian mycology friends seem to love for giving big fruits.

- always soak my grain in a 50% coffee solution and boil it twice : once at the beginning of the soak and once at the end. A soak of 1 to 2 hours is enough for rye and parakeet seeds (millet), while 24 hours seem to be needed in order for the corn in the WBS to be 100% hydrated. The coffee is a now proven booster (I use instant coffee at 1 tsp per 300ml of H2O, no brewing needed - I don't drink coffee) and boiling twice should get rid of any residual spores in the grain.

- don't shake too much once colonization started. If enough inoculation material has been used, colonization should start in many places at once, and shaking will only slow down the mycelium growth. With Panaeoluses, which are less rizhomorphic than Cubensis(es? :D), I try not to shake at all when starting from spore syringes so the selection by the mycelium strains themselves is more efficient

- have a good stock of good lids with synthetic filter in dual layers and silicone (no pun intended) self healing injection ports (that I like to call SHIPs :D) along with a good stock of different sized jars. Being based in Belgium (Europe :P), Ball/Mason jars are really difficult to find but I found a good source of 1L and 1.5L jars compatible with Ball wide mouth caps, and for anything smaller than a quart (or litre), I like to use the commonly found jelly jars as most any jars here in the supermarket have compatible lids with those.

- it's more efficient to make a LC from a spore syringe and inoculate the jars with the LC around 5 days to a week later than using the spore syringe directly, especially if you've got more than a few quarts to work with... Though I was surprised by the speed of colonization from spores if you use a larger amount of liquid per jar than the PF Tek. Also, if your sterile technique is good enough, the LC may allow you to spot some contamination before inoculation of the substrate/spawn - or by inoculating a little rye at the bottom of a jar, you should see contams quite quickly, and of course, if it's clean, you can refrigerate the Liquid Culture and keep it ready to use for a long time. I prefer to see the spore syringe as a gene pool starter than an inoculation technique.

- be clean, but only when it's needed thanks to the SHIPs and LC in syringes, and work fast, always. That means I don't give a shit about sterility and speed in the kitchen when I prepare my grains and pressure cook my items - I just don't mix "contaminated and ready to be disposed of" jars with "soon to be sterilised" jars, but I am totally anal as soon as I enter the lab tent to work with mycelium or spores. Don't hesitate to wash your gloves with alcohol every time you picked something that you weren't 100% sure was sterile. The flow hood is installed in a grow tent, so that sterility is quickly obtained in this small volume that is easy to keep clean, the RVK used in the hood shall be connected as an air intractor for the tent. Due to the small volume, 100% of the air should be recycled every few minutes, minimizing the time needed to "heat up" the hood before sterile work can be instigated. Also the hood has a propylene pre-filter installed to keep the HEPA filter itself cleaner for longer. Combining LCs, syringes, SHIPs and the flow hood in a tent minimize the potential for contaminations and indeed, since everything is setup nice and tight, my contamination rate has dropped to practically zero if my original cultures are clean.

- corollary to the previous point, always use first quality tools and materials, and be as much ecologically minded as possible. Mushrooms are used for mycorestoration of soils, no reason to polute in order to produce them !!!
By using quality and reusable tools, you keep them much longer so it is cheaper, and you polute less as you don't throw only used once items all the time. Peak Oil was last year, plastic will become more and more expensive in the future. Hihihi fun fact : in order to get the most efficient Pressure Sterilizer, I had to polute a lot as the best there is of course are the All-Americans... Shipping was steep, let me tell ya ;)

Sorry about the long posts, I have the (bad?) habit of trying to teach my audience from my preservationist days and tend to forget I'm still very very new to this compared to so many of you guys :bow:

Cheers !

Edited by SillyCone, 03 July 2011 - 02:41 AM.


#4 VoodooGarden

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 02:19 AM

best of luck. welcome to topia.

#5 SillyCone

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 03:16 PM

Thanks !

Oh, Agama, I can't send PMs yet, so I have to thank you in here for the very sad heads up. Will write an email to Mrs H3 in homage of the great soul that left this material plane to soon.

Will leave you all now as my ship was just announced by Cubic Cambo Psichedelines :dance:

#6 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 03:54 AM

Ok, I got myself a meat thermometer and pasteurized my own little recipe :
- expanded and dried straw pellets
- horse manure made with kelp (Or Brun from France)
- horse poo from MRCA
- lime
- supradyn (vitamins)

Damn I forgot the coffee :P
1 pint of rye of PF Red Spore is very well colonized, I made 15ml of LC from it.
I'll spawn the jar in the compost tonight.

Will also take an awful lot of pics of my whole setup and present my little family to you guys :)

#7 Crazy8ths

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 05:28 AM

- use WBS instead of rye for spawn , as it's much cheaper and readily available, and in my experience works at least as good as rye if not faster. Also there's lot of corn in it, which my brazilian mycology friends seem to love for giving big fruits.

Do you use gypsum to help in the soak? Have any contam issues with coffee? Do cubes like coffee? My friend has never had any luck with corn and such...you pointed out the double boil, sounds more than reasonable if even after a 24 hour saok with gypsum brought to a boil then towel dryed and sterilized had not worked...


Sorry about the long posts, I have the (bad?) habit of trying to teach my audience from my preservationist days and tend to forget I'm still very very new to this compared to so many of you guys :bow:

I'm all about recycling I know plenty of peeps here that can really appreciate the thought. Its not like you were born yesterday, lol.

- supradyn (vitamins)
try this!
http://mycotopia.net...ke-formula.html

#8 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:32 AM

Do you use gypsum to help in the soak? Have any contam issues with coffee? Do cubes like coffee? My friend has never had any luck with corn and such...you pointed out the double boil, sounds more than reasonable if even after a 24 hour saok with gypsum brought to a boil then towel dryed and sterilized had not worked...

I do use gypsum AND lime. I learned all my basic techniques from the excellent "Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook" and that's where my recipes come from, along with RR videos of course.
Except they both work with rye, so I had to adapt the recipe to WBS. The brazilians seem to like corn a lot, as it's so much readily available over there, and they have to cope with lots of contamination problems with it. The admin of Cogumelosmagicos forums explained his trick to avoid contams on corn, and that was the double boiling (or even triple) with 24h in between. The thing is, the core of corn is very dense, and it really needs all that soaking in order to be fully hydrated and thus kill even the innermost spores and bacterias.
After the last boil, I like to rinse thoroughly so that the grains don't stick together at all, then put them in the over at around 120 degrees celcius while mixing from time to time until they're almost completely dry (if dried too much, the PC will "kill" them. Then I load my quart jars, add 1/4 tsp gypsum and 1/4 tsp lime, seal, shake thoroughly to mix in the powders and avoid calcium clumps, add 2 layers of alu foil and PC for a good 60 to 90 minutes.
The whole process takes some time to get right for your own environmental parameters...
And yes, cubes love coffee, hell even my Pink Oyster seems to love it :D
Moreover, it's so easy with instant coffee, just add half the dose written on the box for a normal cup of coffee, that it's a no brainer. Even RR uses coffee for all his soaks :D

Its not like you were born yesterday, lol.

Yup, starting to realize that ;)
It's gooooooooooood :D

- supradyn (vitamins)
try this!
http://mycotopia.net...ke-formula.html

Thanks, will do ;)
1 thing I realised about substrates : if you're going to PC it, whatever ingredients the shrooms like are ok to use, but if you're preparing a spawn mix to be pasteurized, don't ever use grains, in whole or in flour, as those will contaminate too fast in the open air. Now for PCing in bags and inoculate with LC, that recipe must be tha bomb indeed ;)

Edited by SillyCone, 05 July 2011 - 10:40 AM.


#9 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:18 PM

Ok just for the experience, I prepared a few jars of WBS without gypsum and lime a few days ago. They look more humid than when dosed with gypsum, and I guess they are more acidic due to the lack of lime as I used coffee as usual.
I inoculated half of them with the Mexican Dutch King and the other half with PanCyans Hawaii. Both from healthy LCs of course. The Mex doesn't show any signs of colonization yet, but the Pans do already !

Will keep you informed about how it goes, but I have a bad feeling, I really feel that the conditions without lime AND gypsum are much more prone to bacterial contaminations. Well, that's why it's an experiment, and I should refrain myself from making early conclusions to stay scientifically minded.

Edited by SillyCone, 05 July 2011 - 01:09 PM.


#10 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 01:40 PM

Ok I just checked and the MexDK has also started growth in the "uncalciumed" "coffeed" WBS :D
Still, there are quite a few wet spots in the jars, the myc better hurry to nick the bacterias out of ... The water :D
For now, it seems to be ok though, crossing fingers.

#11 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:42 PM

First the incubators...
The one on the left has a 100W aquarium heater, inserted in the master tub and glued with silicone : that way I can adjust the temperature on the fly and the internal thermostat does the rest. Quite cheap and it works pretty well. As the incubators are not in a place where temperatures are stable, I still have to watch it to avoid extremes (here in Belgium, it's 15c one day and 28c the next...)
Also you can notice the two magnetic stirrer for the LCs.
The second incubator has a 300W heater and an external relay/thermostat with a temp probe. It allows for a bit more stable temps that I don't have to watch all the time. As soon as I find the inclination, I'll build a dual thermostat with a microcontroller (Arduino for those who know that kind of stuff) as I have all the necessary pieces. I also have a very precise temp/hygro module that I'll combine with relays for the FC and the ultrasonic mister and FAE pump.
The petri dish is P.C.Cambodian, my first copy from agar to agar. Actually, I find agar work (with peroxyde) quite easy : never lost a dish due to bad technique. (LCs and grain are something else, though, it's not that I'm fail proof - at the opposite, I try to be success proof in order to gain loads of xp in a very short time)

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Edited by SillyCone, 05 July 2011 - 10:15 PM.


#12 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:38 PM

Ok so here are the MexDK jars.

First, the MDK LC. Funny thing, even on the magnetic stirrer, the mycelium insisted on growing on my home made stir bar (a simple nail dipped in silicone.) I'm even wondering if the mycelium wouldn't be attracted by the magnetism imposed on the nail ???

Then, the experience with WBS and no lime/gypsum... It seems to work as fast, 48h after inoculation the first fluffy bits have emerged already :dance:

Last but not least, the ones inoculated with some home made spore syringe (spores from the FSRE) the same day the syringe and LC were made from the print. They have been shaken once at approx 30%.

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#13 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:51 PM

Little jar, medium jars and big badaboom jar are growing steadily.
The little one was a half 2/3 of a pint in BRF with only one inoculation point (have updated my lids since) and thus shaken very hard once I could see a good colonization spot. Looks like it worked quite well :)
Oh and it's not a typical PF Tek BRF either, part of the verm has been substituted with shredded straw pellet, supradyn was added and the water was instant coffee at 50% strength.

The two pints are rye berries, and the colonization is almost there...

Those three will be fruited, while the big jar (1.7L total, approx 1.2L lolium seeds soaked in coffee) will stay there for a few months for sclerotias growing. I might keep one of the rye berries for sclerotias too, in order to compare taste, speed of development, etc.

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#14 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:57 PM

Now is the turn of PF Red Spores...

5 PF Teks (same BRF+straw+coffee mix as the P.M.J above) and 2 pint rye berries.

The rye berry pint from the left should have been spawned tonight. Too lazy, will do tomorrow.
Today though I took 15ml of LC from it, hence it's wet appearance... but wait, wouldn't that be a primordia ? If so, is it too late to spawn in the hpoo compost I pasteurized yesterday ???

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Edited by SillyCone, 06 July 2011 - 12:39 AM.


#15 SillyCone

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:01 PM

Last but not least, the Pans Cyans...

The 2 LC bubble a lot, probably due to the fact I didn't filter that batch of 3/4 dextrose - 1/4 light malt extract. It was quite difficult to see if the LC was contaminated in the beginning, but looks like that brave PanCyan mycelium cleaned it up nicely as I have not seen a single contaminated jar that was inoculated with any of both LCs. The appearance of Panaeoluses mycelium in LC is very different than Cubensis, much less hairy, and it was even quite different between LC jar of PCH initially... but that might be due to the composition of the LC, or the fact it's an unselected multispore LC... I'll keep that in mind next time I make a fresh LC of Panaeos and/or I have some myc on agar...

The rye jar has been shaken and recovered beautifully. The two WBS have also been shaken, but only the one from the right has recovered until now (two days later approx.)

The parakeet pint was inoculated from spore print, there are 2 of them. The one pictured here germinated very fast, but now growth seems to have slowed down quite a bit. It hasn't been shaken at all. The other one was shaken 2 days ago but shows no more signs of mycelium... The lesson learned is : from spores, no shake at all for PanCyans. Even from MS LC, it is quite dangerous to shake. Some selection on agar or cloning of good fruitbodies might help in the future (just ordered some antibiotic MYA at MRCA along with 3kg of lime and gypsum :P)

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Edited by SillyCone, 05 July 2011 - 11:27 PM.


#16 AGAMA

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:56 AM

Now is the turn of PF Red Spores....The rye berry pint from the left should have been spawned tonight. Too lazy, will do tomorrow.
....but wait, wouldn't that be a primordia ? If so, is it too late to spawn in the hpoo compost I pasteurized yesterday ???


IMO, you should be fine.
I've used popcorn spawn that had two inch pins, and had great success.
Just pick the pins before mixing with the substrate.:eusa_clap
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#17 SillyCone

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:30 AM

Woohoo, that means I finally did it ? (100% colo and no contams)
After 2 months of spawn experiments, I thought that it was all there is to mycology : inoculate, wait, start over :D
Maybe I'll be tasting those PF Red Spore after all ? :dance:

Thanks a lot, you know how we humans are when it's the first time, shivering and all :lol:

PS: it is indeed a small knot, as more started to appear. Probably due to the 5ml of LC that I couldn't get back into the syringe, the myc had a mini dunk ?

Edited by SillyCone, 06 July 2011 - 08:46 AM.


#18 SillyCone

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:45 AM

Ok just for the experience, I prepared a few jars of WBS without gypsum and lime a few days ago. They look more humid than when dosed with gypsum, and I guess they are more acidic due to the lack of lime as I used coffee as usual.
I inoculated half of them with the Mexican Dutch King and the other half with PanCyans Hawaii. Both from healthy LCs of course. The Mex doesn't show any signs of colonization yet, but the Pans do already !

Will keep you informed about how it goes, but I have a bad feeling, I really feel that the conditions without lime AND gypsum are much more prone to bacterial contaminations. Well, that's why it's an experiment, and I should refrain myself from making early conclusions to stay scientifically minded.

I guess I was right... To doubt my doubtedness ROFLMAO :D

I don't think I've ever seen such a fast growth in both Cubes and Pans than with this "raw" coffee WBS ! The seemingly excess water (to my untrained eyes of course) disappeared, either absorbed by the grains or by the mycelium... Now if the experiment is 100% successfull, what shall I do in regard to lime and gypsum ?
Lime is supposed to be used to higher the pH and supply with some calcium, and gypsum is used to absorb excess humidity in the substrate. Now I get it with other kind of substrates including coir and other low pH stuff, but with grain spawn, what's the real use ? As a security, maybe... One thing worth noting is that 100% of my grain has been soaked in instant coffee. Coffee is supposed to be acidic, but maybe that's only relevant when using spent coffee grinds... Dunno yet but will keep thinking and testing with that.

[edit]I forgot to add that the quality of the water here is very poor, at least for my hydroponic plants, as it's got a very high EC (.9 out of the tap!) and pH... full of calcium :D
Maybe that's enough for the myc...

Edited by SillyCone, 06 July 2011 - 08:51 AM.


#19 SillyCone

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:03 PM

Just lost one quart jar of Mex DK in WBS to the mean green. It was started from spores 10 days ago with two siblings, which are much more developped and show no signs of weakness... yet.

The WBS jars of my last experiment (without any gypsum or lime) are just exploding with growth at a phenomenal speed (compared to what I experienced before, I mean), both Mex DK and PanCyan Hawaii have colonized about 30%... in 3 days !
Now I don't know what to think anymore ???
The test was supposed to be a total failure, just to prove that lime and gypsum were needed with WBS, especially when using coffee... :lol:
Maybe lime or gypsum interact with coffee somehow, linked to pH or something ?

Anyways : duh !

#20 SillyCone

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:20 PM

Also I spawned the PF Red Spore pint into hpoo today. I ended up breaking the mycelium in a glass plate, no way shaking would have done anything. The consistency of the mycelium/rye was of a ready to birth cake, and no strange colours were found.

Now crossing fingers, this is exciting !




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