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successful lopho graft


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#1 cheech

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:23 PM

here's a picture of my first cactus grafts, made just 10 days ago. i used a myrtillo and a peruvian torch for the stock. some of my other cactus buddies share the photo.

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:32 PM

sweet!

providing all goes well, you going to graft that biggun to some of that beefy pedro?

great family u have there cheech!:cool:

#3 loochypooch

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:41 PM

Nice sized peyotes man!

Are you sure that is a T. Peruvianus you grafted to? The picture is kind of cloudy but to me it looks more like a Blue Torch (Cephalocereus Azures), which is a common ornamental cactus and not a good graft stock at all. Like I said, the picture is cloudy but those spines look yellow and the aeroles look close together for it to be a T. Peruvianus, but I could be wrong and would need a close up to say for sure.

I've grafted several times in the past and I thought I'd mention that Myrtles are crappy stock compared to a Trich. They don't grow nearly as fast from what I've seen.

If I were you and I owned Peyote, I'd put it on the best possible root stock for optimal growth. T. Pachanoi would be ideal I think. I've done some grafting on Peruvianus and found the spines to be an unnecessary nuiscance.

By the way, I've got some Lophophora Diffusa that I've regrafted multiple times and been very successful so as long as they're healthy you shouldn't worry about regrafting whenever necessary.

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:58 PM

hey looch :):)

"not a good graft stock at all."

why? because it's not active? or becaue it grows slower? some other reason?


"so as long as they're healthy you shouldn't worry about regrafting whenever necessary."

wouldn't you recommend letting it take/heal fully (10 days aint long enough),
before performin any further surgery? Or have you done it before it binds completely?

i have no experience grafting lophophora or even growing lophophora genus,
nor have I done anything similiar in nature...
so please, excuse my ignorance :dead:

#5 loochypooch

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:06 AM

hey looch :):)

"not a good graft stock at all."
why? because it's not active? or becaue it grows slower? some other reason?


"so as long as they're healthy you shouldn't worry about regrafting whenever necessary."
wouldn't you recommend letting it take/heal fully (10 days aint long enough),
before performin any further surgery? Or have you done it before it binds completely?
i have no experience grafting lophophora or even growing lophophora genus,
nor have I done anything similiar in nature...
so please, excuse my ignorance :dead:


Well the Blue Torch is not active, but that is not of importance when grafting. Mainly it grows slowly and has inferior connecting tissue.

As for waiting for it to heal before regrafting -- nah, I definitely wouldn't recommend that. Every time you graft you need a freshly sliced section, so if you let it dry over, then you'll probably need to cut deeper to get a nice wet surface for connecting.

The worst problems I've noticed with grafting occur when the connection point rots. This is usually caused by inferior root stock or too high humidity. I've never seen it happen on a Pachanoi because they are just easy to work with.

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:25 AM

"The worst problems I've noticed with grafting occur when the connection point rots. This is usually caused by inferior root stock or too high humidity."

Precisely, hence my logic--
letting it dry-up, healthy, then doing work on it, would further ensure no cross-contamination

you made a great point about havin' to cut further-into the bottom of the loph,
but are you suggesting he re-use the old cut?

i totally agree with your reasoning for it but is this procedure 'industry standard' ?
seems to me the chance of contamination would increase if cheech were to do so
?

also, it wouldnt be too much of a loss,
providing the tissue at the bottom of the loph is sufficient for another cut,
because once grafted, don't lophophora grow extremely fast,
as compared to how the scion would normally perform had it not been grafted?

t.i.a.

#7 loochypooch

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:32 AM

I'm only speaking from experience and not sure of the industry standards for regrafting. Though I assume Cheech has read up on the correct way to sterilize and do the initial graft or he wouldn't be doing so well already.

The Lophs recover very quickly once attached to a good root stock and show signs of recovery/growth within two weeks. The issue is that Lophs are globular so they are not that tall and each slice you make to graft them (and a new slice is ALWAYS necessary immediately prior to grafting) makes them shorter. After too many slices the cactus could die because it is not deep enough to sustain itself, and that is why I don't recommend letting it dry when transplanting root stocks. I always make as thin of a slice as possible, a razor would even be ideal for this.

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:36 AM

thanks for the extra info Posted Image

#9 loochypooch

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:56 AM

Yea, the more I look at it that cactus on the left the more it looks like a Blue Torch. Especially since it is the same size as the Blue Myrtle, which both may be found at Wal-Mart.

I did some testing with those as root stock and found that they were prone to rotting due to the softness of their inner tissue, but also that the tissue continues to retract as it dries until the scion has nothing to attach to and it pops off. So even if it looks like the graft was good -- if you're working with a Blue Torch it might fall off in a week or so.

What makes Pedros so great as root stock is that the tissue maintains good moisture when cut and does not receed too much as it dries. That does look like a nice Pachanoi root stock on the right of your picture Cheech! I'd feel a lot better if I saw your Peyote's on something like that!

:teeth:

BTW when I acquired my first Lophs I didn't have enough Pachanois to use as root stock so I went to wal-mart and purchased Blue Myrtle and Blue Torch. The poor Lophs that were attached to those were lost. As time passed and new Pachanois were acquired I once regrafted a Loph three times in a single week on three different Pachanois (first two were dumb choices) and that Loph is doing quite well!

#10 cheech

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:19 PM

Yea, the more I look at it that cactus on the left the more it looks like a Blue Torch. Especially since it is the same size as the Blue Myrtle, which both may be found at Wal-Mart.


i'm a cactus id newbie - bought the torch at lowe's. it sure looks (to me) like some of the pix i've seen of the peruvian. will you point out some differences so i may do better in the future? see the picture. i used the myrtle because the girl i bought the lophos from uses the myrtle for stock in the nursery.


What makes Pedros so great as root stock is that the tissue maintains good moisture when cut and does not receed too much as it dries. That does look like a nice Pachanoi root stock on the right of your picture Cheech! I'd feel a lot better if I saw your Peyote's on something like that!

i may go to the pedros. the one in the picture isn't rooted yet tho.
thanks for the help!



#11 cheech

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:22 PM

here's a better picture.

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#12 loochypooch

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:23 PM

Definitely not a Trich bro. That is a Blue Torch. I might add that the button is not making enough contact, it is ideal for the flesh to not be exposed to air. It also looks like you cut pretty high on that button so you may be in for a battle...if I were you I'd use a thin razor to slice the bottom of that peyote after removing it from the torch and then put it directly on a nice fat Pachanoi.

IMO that button is going to die within a week or so if you leave it where it sits (or more likely it will pop off because the torches flesh will become dry and sandy and crispy) and I'd hate to see that happen!

As for the Blue Myrtle, I don't think they are so great, but lots of people use them so I doubt your button will die there at least. It looks like the Myrtle should be fatter so you have more tissue connectivity though.

#13 loochypooch

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:51 PM

You'll do best in your grafting if you ensure 100% contact with the cut surface of the Loph. The reason Pachanois are so good for root stock is because they are wide enough for full contact and they do not shrivel up around the cut. Not to mention they grow Uber-Fast!

Notice in the picture you do not see the bottom of the Loph hanging over the root stock. When it was grafted last year the Loph was smaller than the width of the root stock. I am pointing this out Cheech because I fear your overhang will result in molding on the underside.

BTW this root stock is not a Pachanoi in this case, it is actually a rare Peruvianus of the short spined variety. I gave up trying to classify all of my Peruvianus years ago, but if someone wants to classify it be my guest!

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#14 cheech

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 05:50 PM

Definitely not a Trich bro. That is a Blue Torch. I might add that the button is not making enough contact, it is ideal for the flesh to not be exposed to air. It also looks like you cut pretty high on that button so you may be in for a battle...if I were you I'd use a thin razor to slice the bottom of that peyote after removing it from the torch and then put it directly on a nice fat Pachanoi.



can i put it on the pedro that is rooting now? the one in the picture?
i'm getting some pedros in the mail, bare root. would one of these be better?





#15 cheech

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 06:05 PM

i got home from work today and both had popped off. i grafted one to the pedro in the picture, and i regrafted the other to the myrtle after cutting it down an inch for more surface area. i did slice about 1/32' off each lopho. the vascular rings were real small, i hope i matched them to the stock rings.

if for some reason this doesn't work can i let the lophos callus and reroot?

#16 loochypooch

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:59 PM

First off Cheech, I'm sorry for the problems you are having. Hopefully we've caught this soon enough to protect your rare cacti though.

I kind of doubt there is enough of the Lophs left for them to survive after simply calousing over, maybe though. Myrtles have very small vascular rings so your chances of a successful graft, especially on a smaller specimen, are not as good this way either (though surely possible).

You're probably alright using that big Pedro even though it isn't rooted yet (that's not ideal, of course) because it looks soo fat and healthy. Will both Lophs fit on that Pedro?

The vascular rings must overlap when grafting so you never want to center your Loph on the root stock; it should always be off center so that the circles overlap, preferrable in two places, not one! The easiest way to ensure a solid connection if the root stock is big enough is to have the root stocks vascular ring bisect (go through the center of) the Loph -- in doing this you could have one Loph on the left and one on the right, for example. In other words, make sure that one side of your root stock's vascualr ring goes right through the middle of your Loph for optimal results.

Other advice I'm sure you've already read up on...
Press firmly, but do not squish the Loph when attaching and make sure that you tape it down with adequate pressure and 100% surface contact. Do NOT remove the tape for at least 7 days.

#17 cheech

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 04:17 PM

thanks for the tips.
i'm hoping this second graft works out. i'm pretty confident with the one on the pedro, i had to regraft onto the myrtillo because that's all i had at the time. today i received a big pedro in the mail. i think it's about to flower so i don't want to cut it yet.
i still have the rooted bases of the lophos i grafted. i cut them high so there's enough to send out new growth. any ideas how long until i see pups?

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#18 loochypooch

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:39 PM

thanks for the tips.
i'm hoping this second graft works out. i'm pretty confident with the one on the pedro, i had to regraft onto the myrtillo because that's all i had at the time. today i received a big pedro in the mail. i think it's about to flower so i don't want to cut it yet.
i still have the rooted bases of the lophos i grafted. i cut them high so there's enough to send out new growth. any ideas how long until i see pups?


Yep, you should see new pups probably within a month. Here is a pic of some Koehrsii's that are one year old -- I have no idea why they are purple, it's certainly not because of too much light. Be carefull if you put these outside though, it seems birds like to pick at the soft flesh...

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#19 procell

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:55 PM

Hi Guys,
So how do you get new lophs without seeds? The graft puts out new pups? The last pic is confusing, what are the little purple things growing out of? An old loph or old san pedro?

Oh, oops I see, it's an old root structure

#20 loochypooch

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:25 PM

Two in that pic may be ready for grafting themselves. I'm not sure what the smallest button is that you can graft to a pachanoi, but I know even the tiniest of em should survive on Pereskiopsis.




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