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peeps go to the wall


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#41 Jawn

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:36 PM

I still don't understand what tangible result they're trying to achieve. Can someone enlighten me, please?

#42 Tsering

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:55 PM

In countries where the wealth gap becomes too great a certain tipping point is reached. This happens often in Latin American countries where the wealth gap is large. When this tipping point is reached a revolution and redistribution of wealth will occur.

I think what the peeps are trying to do is use what freedoms remain to bring attention to this situation is a peaceful and democratic way.

#43 Jawn

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:01 PM

I understand their frustration, but is their desired end result just shedding light on maldristribution of wealth? I'm not sure what they want; to have government force redistribution?

#44 Tsering

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:19 PM

The one thing that power really craves and can not have is permanence. Those with the power and money are keeping an eye on the people and riding a fine line keeping them hooked enough on consumer culture to stay distracted from what's going on. It would seem that more people are waking up and asking for a more fair and equitable system.

This is our right as Americans. Please don't put down the people who are speaking up for our rights. I have the utmost respect for them. I think of them the way most people think of the troops. "If it weren't for them we wouldn't have the rights that we do."
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#45 anne halonium

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:16 AM

things are moving fast on the front,
it was a strong day.
camp liberty is estimated easy 1k occupiers.
training and test marches throughout the day.

there appears to be a rise in "commuter protestors"
the day crowd is easily in the high thousands.

indy media continues to rally, and the onsite news feeds
are up most of the time..........

chats and rally points are established 24 hrs at his point.
thousands more confirming they are on their way.

this evening the first buses began arriving.


accomplish?
ask them, join the feeds/ chats.

they do have a liberty general assembly list of demands
on the occupywallstreet.org.

anyway, things are moving fast.
tomorrow will be big, the weekend HUGE..

im updating here in a limited way, in the interest of informing mycos.
there is plenty of info/ details on both my personal blogs and others.
if ya have questions , see the above posted links.
see for yourself from the cams on the front lines.

peeps are rallying in new york for alot of reasons.
they are increasing in numbers literally by the minit.
in spite of the semi mainstream media blackout,
most of the planet is watching.
wall street lost 400+ points today.
they are under seige from THOUSANDS, and rising.
the seige is in day 7 now.


some may take different positions on all this, and its beyond the scope of the thread to be a answer.
all said, times are a changin..............dont miss it

a good chunk of america just woke up.


tip the cow / ring the bell.

Edited by anne halonium, 23 September 2011 - 01:01 AM.


#46 Raoul Duke

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 04:04 AM

I need to leave my cave more often. I didn't even know this was going on. So much for the media reporting on this one.
To bad nothing will come of it. We will just keep plugging along under the same old broken system...

#47 Tsering

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:00 AM

Nothing plugs along forever, especially broken systems. We are the problem, we can be the solution.
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#48 Jawn

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:15 AM

This is our right as Americans. Please don't put down the people who are speaking up for our rights. I have the utmost respect for them. I think of them the way most people think of the troops. "If it weren't for them we wouldn't have the rights that we do."

I'm not putting anyone down by any means; but after seeing people protest using language everywhere from "God hates Fags" to the more peaceful types, at some point I don't want to take hours from my day to find out their specific desires. It's more beneficial for their cause if they have specific direction. I'm not comparing these protests in their substance at all, I'm only using crazy protesters as an example to say their are so many protests happening all the time that, without knowing what they want directly, up front, it's hard to support them.

To me, anyway, protesting needs direction, otherwise it's just mass frustration that doesn't lead anywhere. I'm not against it at all, the right of people to peaceably protest and assemble is in the Bill of Rights and I would die to allow someone to do it; I just don't understand what they want, and after searching for an hour or so online for an answer, it all still seems extremely vague.

Please understand I'm not against them or putting them down, I just don't understand what they're hoping for, tangibly. Tell me they're specifically looking to end a two-party system that doesn't allow anything but polar politicians, and I'm in. What I can gather, though, they're against both the government and the way wealth is distributed, and I just can't support government controlled redistribution. I don't think that every wealthy person achieved their success in a dirty way, or that every person without money deserves it. Sorry to come across as a downer, just lookin' for specifics to determine if I support it or not.

Edited by Jawn, 23 September 2011 - 07:41 AM.


#49 TVCasualty

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:30 AM

I understand their frustration, but is their desired end result just shedding light on maldristribution of wealth? I'm not sure what they want; to have government force redistribution?


I'm kind of annoyed by how our culture seems to be circling the drain in so many ways when the means for solving many of our pressing problems are within our collective technical abilities to solve. I'm annoyed as I watch the ecosystem that underpins everything fall apart and threaten to take us with it while many with the means to help prefer instead to waste all their resources on shiny toys to inflate their egos or on partying to the edge of forever only to end up becoming yet another pointless bad-drug meltdown cliche (oddly enough, IME the only attitude that seems to survive such a meltdown is their sense of entitlement).

It's annoying to watch my own culture commit suicide when it had such awesome potential. I might even go so far as to say I'm getting kinda pissed off.

So what am I gonna do about it? Frankly, I'm not sure. But I suspect I'm not alone.

It might be nice to know just how "not alone" I really am, and I sort of have a vague idea about what some of the primary causes of the things that annoy me are. When I hear others call for a protest against the global corporatocracy that evidence suggests is the #1 reason why people and planet are being sacrificed for profit, it resonates with me as being on the right track, and if I were closer to NYC I would most likely show up at this recent gathering even though I had no specific 'action plan' or demands or any other recognizable political paraphernalia.

I'd go to check the vibe and register my annoyance even if I had no bullet-point list of solutions, and it's easy to forget while we're living more and more in virtual reality that a physical gathering of people at a specific location in less-virtual reality is an end unto itself. That said, since there's really no such things as an "end," it will likely spawn thoughts, ideas and other events in the future with greater cohesion in terms of articulating concerns and offering solutions.

This is like a massive but generally unseen segment of the public murmuring its annoyance and disapproval. It may or may not amount to much by itself, but if that murmur is ignored it will come back as more strident complaining. If that too is ignored it will come back as focused rage; windows may be broken and neighborhoods may burn.

If that fails to initiate the changes demanded by the 'sleeping giant' that is mostly a silent majority then it might just wake up and dust off the guillotines. The reason this aspect of history is cyclical is probably because each new paradigm of power can't imagine the otherwise sheep-like masses rising against them in any effective way (probably a "most of the losers known as 'the public' can't even find a job; how're they gonna get it together to challenge our hegemony?" kinda thing) so yet again the despots or aristocracy or elite get too complacent and tell everyone else to eat shit and die as they ignore the awakening of the giant.


In a nutshell, my take on this novel event (and it is unprecedented in several ways) is that it's a warning of things to come and implies much more widespread unexpressed anger and frustration. At the moment it's probably still mostly a general sense of injustice and unrestrained greed that's motivating a great many of the people to show up, and as those feelings begin to gel into specific concerns or issues I bet we'll see the public's focus begin to increase sharply. If our current arrogantly-dense financial aristocrats ignore it, then the giant will wake back up (again) and heads will roll, possibly literally.

#50 anne halonium

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:02 AM

the test of support is simple,
are ya disgusted or not with the status quo?


#51 procell

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:02 PM

the test of support is simple,
are ya disgusted or not with the status quo?

Without a viable alternative it only advocates anarchy.
Yah I'm not impressed with the status quo but anarchy means loosing topia as well . . .


#52 Jawn

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 12:23 PM

I'm a pretty staunch Libertarian, so mostly what I want is to be left alone, for minimal government, and relative freedom. I want to be allowed to live my life in the way I please, regardless of how self-destructive it is, as long as I don't violate the rights of others.

I think by and large, I've been more unsatisfied with the 'status quo' than people getting pissed off lately. My problem is with the fundamental mindset of citizens of the country, who seem to think their "rights" are more than life, liberty and property. I don't like when people dislike the wealthy simply because they're wealthy and assume they earned what they did in a dishonest way. What seems to be happening is class warfare at its worst, when there are definitely legitimate reasons to despise many of the richest, but the masses simply take it out on anyone who happens to be prosperous.

This isn't to say some people don't deserve the hatred, but hatred towards the upper 5% of the economy is simply hatred towards the entirety of business owners. Sorry...they're just not all terrible people.

My dissatisfaction with the government and the population in general is unfortunately for me a shared sentiment by only a minority of the population. Too many people can't be happy with less than they think they're entitled to, and they seem to think they're entitled to other people's property. I just don't share the idea that someone else's misfortune is an automatic claim to my livelihood. I'm in no way against the idea of charity, and I fully embrace the idea of helping your fellow man, but I'm against the idea of forced charity.

Putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to help a family in need doesn't make someone a hero, it makes them a worse despot than the man with the gun to his head. The change in mindset can't be forced or picketed towards, it has to be reached through enlightenment, and that's why I don't understand the protests. You can't teach someone what you learned on a shroom trip, and you can't force a billionaire to empathize with the impoverished. All it seems to do is make people even more angry when nobody listens.

Now, if you tell me this protesting is entirely against the government that's running the country, I'm on board.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I've desired a present day declaration of independence for a long time, and given proper circumstances, would break from this country for a new vision. I just don't see this is much of a step in any direction. It seems more like a step forward, backwards, then around in a circle, then...well....nobody really even knows where they're walking. I just don't understand the "waking up" that they're trying to accomplish, I suppose largely because I think the majority of the people trying to do it are asleep anyway.

Sorry if this angers anyone, I'm not trying to, and if this is hijacking a happy revolution thread, feel free do delete it, mods. I'm not trying to start an argument, just seeking of clarification and the sharing of ideas.

Edited by Jawn, 23 September 2011 - 12:30 PM.


#53 anne halonium

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 01:58 PM

the word on the front lines is simple.
occupy wall street , work out the differences later.

banksters are under siege.
we have them surrounded.
thousands are on site.
thousands more expected.


many points of view.
one main theme.
times will change , if one participates or not.
the peeps have had it.

TA continues to monitor the situation.
expect more links and updates.

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#54 Jawn

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:19 PM

the word on the front lines is simple.
occupy wall street , work out the differences later.

banksters are under siege.
we have them surrounded.
thousands are on site.
thousands more expected.


many points of view.
one main theme.
times will change , if one participates or not.
the peeps have had it.

TA continues to monitor the situation.
expect more links and updates.

Unless they're physically preventing the bankers from entering the building and going about their work, it's nothing more to them than an annoyance. If if becomes violent, the protesters will be taken out quicker than the blink of an eye.

I'll put my money on things going on the same way they always have, because there doesn't seem to be any tangible goal or finish except "occupy wall street", which they've done, and has made no change.

I would wish you luck in this endeavor, but in my eyes the only thing worse than wall street tycoons stealing money like they always have is a mass of people who feel entitled taking over the nation's wealth and dolling it out how they see "moral". Too much evil and wrong has been done in the world in the name of good for me to see this any differently. It looks too much like soft communist revolution for me to lend it any support.

I won't post anymore in your thread, I'll leave you to your protest, I just wanted to see what the goal was, and I suppose to give my 2 cents about it now that I know it. I hope this doesn't bring any animosity towards me, or bring about anger in the group; I've always been one to enjoy civilized debate and exchange of ideas, but I know well how quickly it can turn to heated argument and that's not what I come to these boards for. Good luck in your search for happiness (truly).

I'll end with this quote, which has always helped me see another person with fundamental philosophical differences as a friend nonetheless.

Strangers passing in the street
By chance two separate glances meet
And I am you and what I see is me


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#55 anne halonium

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:29 PM

its global news now.

all will have an opportunity decide.



#56 riseabovethought

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

Jawn, did you notice being flat out robbed by the 'banker bailout?' - which is the latest example of collusion between govt and big business at the expense of we, the people, those that they pretend to serve.

Im so proud of these cats protesting on wall street, and I just wish it was better organized, ah but it will be with time ...we will adapt fast. The people are beginning to dig in and push back, and the collusion between the richest 1% and the government has been devastating to the middle class, so it must be something we stand up against while we still can, while the middle class still exists or soon it wont, and all we will care about is food and water. I applaud them for standing up for the rest of us.

Edited by riseabovethought, 23 September 2011 - 03:15 PM.


#57 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:51 PM

I'm kind of annoyed by how our culture seems to be circling the drain in so many ways when the means for solving many of our pressing problems are within our collective technical abilities to solve. I'm annoyed as I watch the ecosystem that underpins everything fall apart and threaten to take us with it while many with the means to help prefer instead to waste all their resources on shiny toys to inflate their egos or on partying to the edge of forever only to end up becoming yet another pointless bad-drug meltdown cliche (oddly enough, IME the only attitude that seems to survive such a meltdown is their sense of entitlement).

It's annoying to watch my own culture commit suicide when it had such awesome potential. I might even go so far as to say I'm getting kinda pissed off.

So what am I gonna do about it? Frankly, I'm not sure. But I suspect I'm not alone.

It might be nice to know just how "not alone" I really am, and I sort of have a vague idea about what some of the primary causes of the things that annoy me are. When I hear others call for a protest against the global corporatocracy that evidence suggests is the #1 reason why people and planet are being sacrificed for profit, it resonates with me as being on the right track, and if I were closer to NYC I would most likely show up at this recent gathering even though I had no specific 'action plan' or demands or any other recognizable political paraphernalia.

I'd go to check the vibe and register my annoyance even if I had no bullet-point list of solutions, and it's easy to forget while we're living more and more in virtual reality that a physical gathering of people at a specific location in less-virtual reality is an end unto itself. That said, since there's really no such things as an "end," it will likely spawn thoughts, ideas and other events in the future with greater cohesion in terms of articulating concerns and offering solutions.

This is like a massive but generally unseen segment of the public murmuring its annoyance and disapproval. It may or may not amount to much by itself, but if that murmur is ignored it will come back as more strident complaining. If that too is ignored it will come back as focused rage; windows may be broken and neighborhoods may burn.

If that fails to initiate the changes demanded by the 'sleeping giant' that is mostly a silent majority then it might just wake up and dust off the guillotines. The reason this aspect of history is cyclical is probably because each new paradigm of power can't imagine the otherwise sheep-like masses rising against them in any effective way (probably a "most of the losers known as 'the public' can't even find a job; how're they gonna get it together to challenge our hegemony?" kinda thing) so yet again the despots or aristocracy or elite get too complacent and tell everyone else to eat shit and die as they ignore the awakening of the giant.


In a nutshell, my take on this novel event (and it is unprecedented in several ways) is that it's a warning of things to come and implies much more widespread unexpressed anger and frustration. At the moment it's probably still mostly a general sense of injustice and unrestrained greed that's motivating a great many of the people to show up, and as those feelings begin to gel into specific concerns or issues I bet we'll see the public's focus begin to increase sharply. If our current arrogantly-dense financial aristocrats ignore it, then the giant will wake back up (again) and heads will roll, possibly literally.


God i love reading your shit :lol:

Im ready to whip out the guillotine :reb:

#58 anne halonium

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:07 PM

the peeps prefer a non violent over- run on this,
and some symbolic statements.

many wish to end war and violence.

we dont need to wreck the planet to shut down the banksters.

crooks and thieves are surrounded and captured all the time,
and given trials, without harming the decent peeps.


its a classic siege of a nest of gangsters.........
a big one...........



that said, the heavy bet ,
is on a new standard of protest at the very least.


#59 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:25 PM

I joke about the guillotine. Well, im at least 75% joking.

I definitely feel Anne is right about violent take-over being obsolete.

This is less about replacing one asshole with another....and more about laying an entirely new foundation.

You cant make chicken soup, from chicken shit.


Do it right the first time, and you won't have to go back and do it over.

#60 procell

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:27 PM

that said, the heavy bet ,
is on a new standard of protest at the very least.


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