145 replies to this topic

[OoBYCoO]

The World According To Monsanto

http://video.google....083407501596844

Edited by eatyualive, 03 November 2011 - 08:27 PM.
link was dead on youtube. put a link for google vid.

[OoBYCoO]

September 30:
Brooklyn, NY 4:00pm-9:00pm – Welcome center & marcher check-in at LaunchPad, 721 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn, NY
October 1:
Brooklyn, NY, United Nations 10:00am – Meet at Flatbush Coop, 1415 Cortelyou Road, Brooklyn NY, for a sendoff! – RSVP on Facebook
11:00am-1:00pm – RALLY: Grand Army Plaza, Prospect Park, Brooklyn, NY – RSVP on Facebook
3:30pm – March to United Nations for brief press conference
Overnight: – Hyatt Regency in Jersey City, NJ or camp at Liberty Harbor Marina, 11 Luis Munoz Marin Boulevard, Jersey City, NJ
October 2:
Jersey City, Newark, Millburn-Union, Springfield, NJ 8:30am – Liberty Harbor Marina
11:30am – Subia’s Organic Market, 506 Jersey Avenue, Jersey City, NJ – RSVP on Facebook
2:00pm – Health Food Market, 840 Broad Street, Newark, NJ – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: – Hotel 304 West, 304 Route 22, West Springfield, NJ or camp at Watchung Reservation, 452 New Providence Road, Mountainside, NJ
October 3:
Scotch Plains, New Brunswick, NJ 8:30am – Hotel 304 West
10:45am – RALLY: Autumn Harvest Health Food 1625 East 2nd St, Scotch Plains, NJ – RSVP on Facebook
4:00pm-5:00pm – MEET-UP: George Street Co-op Natural Foods Market & Cafe, 89 Morris St, New Brunswick, NJ – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: Rutgers University, Continuing Studies Conference Center, 178 Ryders Lane, New Brunswick, NJ or camp at New Brunswick Bike Library, 154 Commercial Avenue, New Brunswick, NJ
October 4:
Princeton, NJ 8:30am – New Brunswick Bike Library
2:00pm – Whole Earth Center, 360 Nassau Street, Princeton, NJ – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: – Extended Stay America Hotel, 3450 Brunswick Pike, Princeton, NJ or camp on site
October 5:
Morrisville, Trevose, PA 8:30am – Extended Stay America Hotel
12:45pm-1:45pm – MEET-UP: Big Bear Natural Foods, 322 West Trenton Avenue #1, Morrisville, PA – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: Comfort Inn, 2779 Lincoln Highway, Trevose, PA or camp at Churchville Nature Center Auditorium, 501 Churchville Lane, Chruchville, PA
October 6:
Jenkintown, Philadelphia, PA 8:30am – Churchville Nature Center Auditorium
3:30pm-5:00pm – NON-GMO FOAM RALLY: – Weavers Way Co-Op, 559 Carpenter Lane, Philadelphia, PA – RSVP on Facebook
7:00pm-8:00pm – MEET-UP: – Mariposa Food Coop, 4726 Baltimore Avenue, Philadelphia, PA – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: The Gables Bed & Breakfast, 4520 Chester Avenue, Philadelphia, PA or camp inside Beaumont Warehouse, 5027 Beaumont Ave, Philadelphia, PA
October 7:
Philadelphia, PA Heal Your Feet day! (March Break)
Sustainability Skill Share: Noon – 11:30pm – The Ellen Powell Tiberino Memorial Museum, 3819 Hamilton Street, Philadelphia, PA – RSVP on Facebook
October 8:
Springfield, PA; Wilmington, DE 8:30am – The Gables Bed & Breakfast, 4520 Chester Avenue, Philadelphia, PA
10:45am – Martindale’s Natural Market, 1172 Baltimore Pike, Springfield, PA – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: – Best Western, 1807 Concord Pike, Wilmington, DE
October 9:
Hockessin, Newark, DE 8:30am – Best Western
3:00pm – Newark Natural Foods, 280 East Main Street, Newark, DE
Overnight: Courtyard by Marriott, 400 David Hollowell Drive, Newark, DE or backyard camping
October 10:
Amish Country, Darlington, MD 8:00am Courtyard by Marriott
No store visits, scenic march through organic and GMO farms
Overnight: Camp Ramblewood, 2564 Silver Road, Darlington, MD
October 11:
Monkton, MD 8:00am – Camp Ramblewood
No store visits, scenic march through organic and GMO farms
Overnight: Camp Running Bear, 17433 Big Falls Road, Monkton, MD
October 12:
Timonium, Baltimore MD 8:00am – Camp Running Bear
2:00pm – MOM’s Organic Market, 20 W. Ridgely Road, Timonium, MD – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: Radisson Hotel Cross Keyes, 5100 Falls Road, Baltimore MD or Mount Washington Conference Center, 5801 Smith Avenue, Baltimore, MD
October 13:
Baltimore, Ellicott City, MD 8:00am – Mount Washington Conference Center
10:00am – OK Natural Foods, 11 West Preston Street, Baltimore, MD – RSVP on Facebook
11:00am–6:00pm – RALLY: Maryland Institute College of Art, 1300 W. Mount Royal Avenue, Baltimore, MD – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: Patapsco Valley State Park, 8020 Baltimore National Pike, Ellicott City, MD
October 14:
Jessup, Laurel, MD 8:00am – Patapsco Valley State Park
11:00pm – MOM’s Organic Market, 7351 Assateague Drive, Jessup, MD – RSVP on Facebook
Overnight: Comfort Suites, 14402 Laurel Place, Laurel, MD
October 15:
College Park, Takoma Park, MD 8:00am – Comfort Suites
12:15pm – University of Maryland College Park (TBD)
3:00pm – Silver Spring Food Co-op, 201 Ethan Allen Avenue, Takoma Park, MD
Overnight: Hilltop Hostel, 300 Carroll Street NW, Washington, DC or backyard camping
October 16:
Washington, DC 11:00am – Hilltop Hostel
1:00pm-5pm – WORLD FOOD DAY RALLY: White House in Lafayette Park, 1600 H Street, NW Washington, DC. Marchers estimated to arrive at 1pm. Event to feature Mom’s Panel, and greeting of Right2Know marchers! – RSVP on Facebook

[Phineas_Carmichael]

Hey OoBYCoO,

I don't have 2 hours to devote to this video right at this moment; can you summarize the main points for me please? I'll get around to watching it probably this weekend, when I feel like getting super-pissed about Monsanto...

Thanks,
-P

[OoBYCoO]

It basically talks about all the problems (health, ecological, lawsuits against the very farmers giving them business, political, etc etc) their GMO's and pesticides are causing to everyone involved! The farmers who use it, the farmers who don't use it, the local population exposed to it, the people who eat it, the list goes on. They're basically, slowly but surely, trying to create a monopoly/control on our food. It's REALLY f'ed up!!!

[cuts]

Yeah.. They control much of the food market. They genetically modify seeds they sell so the fruits won't grow seeds... so you'd have to buy their seeds again and again.

[OoBYCoO]

Scientists under Attack - Genetic Engineering in the magnetic Field of Money

This is a documentary thriller about how Agro-Chemical multinational corporations victimize international scientists to prevent them from publishing their scary findings.

http://www.dailymoti...ack-part-1_tech
http://www.dailymoti...tech#rel-page-1
http://www.dailymoti...tech#rel-page-3
http://www.dailymoti...tech#rel-page-4

[Jawn]

Don't let that turn you off from GMO's entirely. Check out Norman Borlaug for a good example of GMO's done right, for the people. They led to the Green Revolution that saved hundreds of millions from starvation. Good man.

[August West]

Don't let that turn you off from GMO's entirely. Check out Norman Borlaug for a good example of GMO's done right, for the people. They led to the Green Revolution that saved hundreds of millions from starvation. Good man.

Intentions notwithstanding (the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all of that), I don't necessarily think Borlaug is a slam dunk of a "good example on GMO's done right". There are a lot of issues raised with the practice of GMO's. Let's be clear, Borlaug isn't different, he was just among the first. I probably shouldn't even have said this 'cause I don't really have the stamina for a debate but I just don't want Borlaug to have a pass into canonization, so to speak.

[dead head jed]

Phin,
In case you didn't know monsanto was a HUGE player in the chemical industry back in the 70-80's. They have since made the move to GMO crops, specializing in making them immune to Round Up weed killer (which they also produce). The idea being that you buy their seeds, plant them, spay the field with round up a few weeks later to kill any weeds, then spay again a few weeks later to kill back any stragglers, by which point the crops will be too thick for any new weeds to take hold. there are of course a few catches here. You can not store seeds. they put genetic markers in each years crop, and the contract you sign says they can test your crops whenever they feel like it, and they will sue the crap out of farmers if they try to use last years seeds. Also farmers end up dumping literal tons of round up weed killer onto there fields (which you have to purchase from them as well).
There have been cases on monosanto sending agents illegally onto farms who don't use their genes to take specimens for testing. Then trying to sue them into bankruptcy when they find their genes in one of their plants. The kicker being that even if the genes got there by natural means (pollination) they can still tie the families up in court so long that they end up going under anyways (making cheap land availible to the other farmer using monsanto seeds)
Top that with them pretty much bank rolling the movement of a bill (for which ex-execs were "top advisors") saying that GMO crops are "essentially equivalent to non-GMO". basically meaning that GMO is no different then non-GMO and needs no special treatment or labeling.
scary when you think that they control a large part of our food supply like corn and soy

[OoBYCoO]

Phin,
In case you didn't know monsanto was a HUGE player in the chemical industry back in the 70-80's. They have since made the move to GMO crops, specializing in making them immune to Round Up weed killer (which they also produce). The idea being that you buy their seeds, plant them, spay the field with round up a few weeks later to kill any weeds, then spay again a few weeks later to kill back any stragglers, by which point the crops will be too thick for any new weeds to take hold. there are of course a few catches here. You can not store seeds. they put genetic markers in each years crop, and the contract you sign says they can test your crops whenever they feel like it, and they will sue the crap out of farmers if they try to use last years seeds. Also farmers end up dumping literal tons of round up weed killer onto there fields (which you have to purchase from them as well).
There have been cases on monosanto sending agents illegally onto farms who don't use their genes to take specimens for testing. Then trying to sue them into bankruptcy when they find their genes in one of their plants. The kicker being that even if the genes got there by natural means (pollination) they can still tie the families up in court so long that they end up going under anyways (making cheap land availible to the other farmer using monsanto seeds)
Top that with them pretty much bank rolling the movement of a bill (for which ex-execs were "top advisors") saying that GMO crops are "essentially equivalent to non-GMO". basically meaning that GMO is no different then non-GMO and needs no special treatment or labeling.
scary when you think that they control a large part of our food supply like corn and soy

Spot on dude, you hit the nail on the head! Anyway, you look at it GMO = bad news!!! This last docu I posted, really really pissed me off b/c this is coming from the scientist's mouths themselves!!!!! Not people on the sidelines looking in.

[OoBYCoO]

A Silent Forest: On the growing threat of genetically engineered trees - STP EDITION

[Direct Link]

[Jawn]

Intentions notwithstanding (the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all of that), I don't necessarily think Borlaug is a slam dunk of a "good example on GMO's done right". There are a lot of issues raised with the practice of GMO's. Let's be clear, Borlaug isn't different, he was just among the first. I probably shouldn't even have said this 'cause I don't really have the stamina for a debate but I just don't want Borlaug to have a pass into canonization, so to speak.

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it, he's there whether you want him to be or not. "Father" of the Green Revolution, saved hundreds of millions, won the Nobel Prize, and Presidential Medal of Freedom, etc, etc. and had probably the greatest impact on genetic modification of any single person since their beginnings. Like him or not, I don't really understand how you can consider him the same as all the rest.

[August West]

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it, he's there whether you want him to be or not. "Father" of the Green Revolution, saved hundreds of millions, won the Nobel Prize, and Presidential Medal of Freedom, etc, etc. and had probably the greatest impact on genetic modification of any single person since their beginnings. Like him or not, I don't really understand how you can consider him the same as all the rest.

Well of course, it all depends on your perspective on the "Green Revolution". It was indeed quite a triumph of science, rather amazing in fact. The creation of high-yield grains has had a major impact in food production. Borlaug and his colleagues did indeed create a massive increase in this area and I don't want to marginalize his accomplishment there.

As I'm sure you're aware, production doesn't solve the real problem, distribution. Food is there, it was there, people just aren't receiving it. Borlaug couldn't modify access to land or water. He couldn't engineer the socio-economic changes necessary to get the food from field to table. This is why there is a hunger problem. It seems that by increasing yields, the revolution has just allowed more people to survive longer in poverty, enabling them to bring more children into the cycle. There aren't less hungry people now than before the revolution, there's more.

I applaud the scientific method for being able to pull amazing things off. Unfortunately though, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The clever monkeys in white coats would often like to escape the moral implications of their feats but we live in an interconnected, closed system, no one gets out alive, as it were.

I haven't even addressed the problems associated with petro-chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, dwindling bio-diversity, etc. (and the mind-boggling number of implications connected to them), that stem (pun) from the "green" revolution. All of these technologies take capital. Most of the worlds farmers are poor (ironically farmers make up a large population of the hungry as well). Therefor, most of the techniques of the green revolution can only be achieved by the relatively wealthy, which, in turn, consolidates power and takes away from localizing solutions.

None of this takes into consideration the possible health impacts of GMO's on the human organism.

The Green Revolution is like the foreign aid debacle on steroids. As I'm sure you're aware, the idea of foreign aid, in it's current paradigm, in solving the problems of the poor, has basically been debunked.

And just like the fear that talk radio pundits and xenophobic politicians have about fundamentalists taking over in the wake of the middle-eastern and north African Revolutions, Monsanto (the fundamentalists fuck sticks) have taken over after the Green Revolution. And oh shit, are they doin a job.

So, yea, Borlaug did some nifty shit. Congrats on scientific achievement. If used though, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Imo, the green revolution isn't all it's proponents would like it to be. But, it's nearly impossible to fix a system with a view as narrow as the current one. I haven't figured out how to win a game that someone else has rigged.

Oh, as for the Nobel prize point, ever heard of Barrack Obama, Yassir Arafat and Henry Kissinger? Well, they all have Nobel prizes too, in the Peace category :lol: You can probably guess how much weight I give the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[OoBYCoO]

I applaud the scientific method for being able to pull amazing things off. Unfortunately though, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The clever monkeys in white coats would often like to escape the moral implications of their feats but we live in an interconnected, closed system, no one gets out alive, as it were.

Truth!! Especially this part! I.E. Einstein and the atomic bomb!

[Jawn]

Well of course, it all depends on your perspective on the "Green Revolution". It was indeed quite a triumph of science, rather amazing in fact. The creation of high-yield grains has had a major impact in food production. Borlaug and his colleagues did indeed create a massive increase in this area and I don't want to marginalize his accomplishment there.
As I'm sure you're aware, production doesn't solve the real problem, distribution. Food is there, it was there, people just aren't receiving it. Borlaug couldn't modify access to land or water. He couldn't engineer the socio-economic changes necessary to get the food from field to table. This is why there is a hunger problem. It seems that by increasing yields, the revolution has just allowed more people to survive longer in poverty, enabling them to bring more children into the cycle. There aren't less hungry people now than before the revolution, there's more.
I applaud the scientific method for being able to pull amazing things off. Unfortunately though, it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The clever monkeys in white coats would often like to escape the moral implications of their feats but we live in an interconnected, closed system, no one gets out alive, as it were.
I haven't even addressed the problems associated with petro-chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, dwindling bio-diversity, etc. (and the mind-boggling number of implications connected to them), that stem (pun) from the "green" revolution. All of these technologies take capital. Most of the worlds farmers are poor (ironically farmers make up a large population of the hungry as well). Therefor, most of the techniques of the green revolution can only be achieved by the relatively wealthy, which, in turn, consolidates power and takes away from localizing solutions.
None of this takes into consideration the possible health impacts of GMO's on the human organism.
The Green Revolution is like the foreign aid debacle on steroids. As I'm sure you're aware, the idea of foreign aid, in it's current paradigm, in solving the problems of the poor, has basically been debunked.
And just like the fear that talk radio pundits and xenophobic politicians have about fundamentalists taking over in the wake of the middle-eastern and north African Revolutions, Monsanto (the fundamentalists fuck sticks) have taken over after the Green Revolution. And oh shit, are they doin a job.
So, yea, Borlaug did some nifty shit. Congrats on scientific achievement. If used though, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Imo, the green revolution isn't all it's proponents would like it to be. But, it's nearly impossible to fix a system with a view as narrow as the current one. I haven't figured out how to win a game that someone else has rigged.
Oh, as for the Nobel prize point, ever heard of Barrack Obama, Yassir Arafat and Henry Kissinger? Well, they all have Nobel prizes too, in the Peace category :lol: You can probably guess how much weight I give the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Well crafted response, friend.
You basically touched on every possible criticism and moral/social implication of GMO's.
Yep yep, I wholeheartedly agree with the lot of it. I never wanted to discuss the merit of GMO's, or whether or not they should be practiced or advanced; I mostly just wanted to put in my two cents as far as the issue. In my eyes, it's not as much about the desires of the people making them or distributing them, and a lot more about an entirely complex set of variables that make predictions about their use and desirability pretty much useless.
I suppose I also just wanted to mention Borlaug 'cause I've talked to him a few times and he seemed to me the epitome of humility and scientific genius. I didn't even know who he was until I saw him on the news after his death. I figure when GMO's get talked about, it's only appropriate that his name is at least somewhere in the discussion.
::EDIT::
As far as a nobel prize goes, I couldn't have said it better myself. While Borlaug may live on through his achievements and decorations, many of them were made a lot less meaningful as more and more people got 'em that shouldn't have.--- Peace prize what?

Edited by eatyualive, 03 November 2011 - 08:24 PM.
politics

[Calaquendi]

...If you can't beat 'em join em?

Naw...these people will smoke a turd in Hell for these transgressions.

All one can do in these instances is basically Hail Satan...

So, Hail Satan. :evil:

Edited by Calaquendi, 19 October 2011 - 10:43 PM.

[Jawn]

I never thought it could be possible but I think I agree with Jawn (agreeing with Jawn is not the impossible part ;)).

I haven't laughed out loud at something online for a long time. :hugs:

[OoBYCoO]

Very interesting discussion on bio engineering that someone shared w/ me on another site.

http://fora.tv/2008/...logy#chapter_01

[thatgreenthumb]

I discredit this video only because I can not trust the translation. The video shows a mexican farmer standing beside his dried corn plants speaking barely audible spanish. For all is known, he could be describing his farm and tortillas with no knowledge of any intentions or dubbing by the film maker. Any spanish speakers please rebut!

My own bias aside....Monsanto is just one chemical manufacturing company that turned to biochem&seed production. From my experience, they work very hard to improve agricultural management practices and plant varieties. Their intention...feed the world. Current markets and infrastructure limit the movement of goods from where they are produced and where they are needed. Example, the US on average can grow 150 bu/ac of corn while South America, Asia, and Africa struggles to push out 50 bu/ac.

Today, the biggest problem for farmers is terrible yields or disease associated with bio-engineered crops. What farmers don't realize, is that the variety only markets the one trait or resistance, under ideal conditions in a small region. SO...mexican corn farmers are growing GMO corn, (designed for a small region of the US under intense management) while moving away from landraces, and seeing the genetics of the GMO variety displayed in the unfavourable conditions.

We need to advance society from the bottom up, not the top down. Education, communication, and infrastructure on a global scale is what is needed to feed everyone. Monsanto is only as bad as the intentions of the people running it. To those still here, thanks for listening to my rant.

Edit: In regards to Monsanto suing farmers for saving seed, they are protecting their liability from people trying to grow saved GM seed. These US farmers choose to blame Monsanto after not following the germplasm exchange agreement, most likely due to ignorance of how the plant genes move around during pollenation/fertilization.

Edited by thatgreenthumb, 07 November 2011 - 10:46 PM.

[OoBYCoO]

Again, the US doesn't need GMO's according to your output analysis.... so why are they trying to flood our markets/fields w/ it??????????????????