26 replies to this topic

[llamabox]

OK, so SWIM put 120grams peruvian torch powder in a jar with enough everclear to cover an inch above and shake, shake, soak 24 hrs, drain, more everclear, shake, shake, soak 24hrs drain, repeat, repeat.....

4 days later and a fifth gone, emptied alcohol into glass pan, and put a fan on it.

2 days later scraped up 13 grams of jet black goo....

Good for 2 he is guessing?????

It is a very hard ball of black resin, so it will be cut into pieces and downed straight...

[loochypooch]

OK, so SWIM put 120grams peruvian torch powder in a jar with enough everclear to cover an inch above and shake, shake, soak 24 hrs, drain, more everclear, shake, shake, soak 24hrs drain, repeat, repeat.....

4 days later and a fifth gone, emptied alcohol into glass pan, and put a fan on it.

2 days later scraped up 13 grams of jet black goo....

Good for 2 he is guessing?????

It is a very hard ball of black resin, so it will be cut into pieces and downed straight...

Should be good for at least three, maybe four.

:hitit:

[ignorant monkey]

yeah, i don't think alcohol extractions are all that efficient when it comes to dried cactus, even with multiple soaks and finely powdered material. based on all i've read anyways.
i'd agree with pissy and say there's probably 2-3 doses there.

i hear making jello with the powdered material makes for easy consumption(if thats the motive behind your extraction)..but i think gelatin is made from pig hooves or some shit like that, if it matters to you.

[loochypooch]

Maybe two 30g doses and one 60g dose would be ideal. No need to break it up evenly. Two good trips and one bonzer one!

:teeth:

[ignorant monkey]

60 grams of dried peruvianis would be one hell of a trip! 30-40 is plenty if it's of good quality, imo

[loochypooch]

60 grams of dried peruvianis would be one hell of a trip! 30-40 is plenty if it's of good quality, imo

But you said you thought 120g would make only two or three doses? Are you saying that you think the extraction would cut the total volume down to around 90g or less?

[ignorant monkey]

huh? no dude, read my post again LOL
what i said was that alcohol extractions aren't all that efficient(when it comes to cacti). which is why i think there's only probably 2-3 good doses in the extract.
so yeah, in other words, i guess that's what i'm saying...sorta

[loochypooch]

well, with cactus alks around 1% which is probably pretty avg for many suppliers, 120g would make about 1200mgs.. Doses can range from around 250mgs for threshhold effects, up to 5-700+mgs for a strong experience.. So, 2-3 doses, would be ideal for me, but your results may vary, depending on the tripper...

Okay so you think the extraction is pretty efficient it sounds like. I would tend to agree.

Maybe a 10% loss should be calculated, but the cactus is probably slightly higher than 1% so it would be offset. It may also be safe to assume that the weight of the extract is 10% alkaloid (i.e. 13g=1300mg). I'd expect the extract has a fairly common alk percentage across the boards by weight (as opposed to the powder form). Do you know of any studies regarding the extract potency?

[llamabox]

Regarding the relative concentrations of alkaloids in Trichocereus pachanoi and Trichocereus peruvianus:

1) Crosby, D.M. & McLaughlin, J.L. (1973). Cactus alkaloids. XIX.
Crystallization of Mescaline HCL and 3-Methoxytyramine HCL from
Trichocereus pachanoi. Lloydia, VOl 36, No. 4.

2) Pardanani, J.H., McLaughlin, J.L., Kondrat, R.W., & Cooks, R.G. (1977).
Cactus Alkaloids. XXXVI. Mescaline and Related Compounds from
Trichocereus peruvianus. Lloydia, Vol 40., No. 6, pp. 585-590.

In the former article, a concentration of 0.331% mescaline base was obtained from freeze-dried Trichocereus pachanoi. Note that the sulfate salt has a heavier weight and requires 300-500 mg for a full dose; the hydrochloride salt is less heavy and requires 225-375 mg for a full dose; the free base requires 205-343 mg for a full dose. Thus, a full dose of the cactus would be 57-96 grams, dry weight.

In the latter article, a concentration of 0.82% mescaline base was obtained. Thus, Trichocereus peruvianus analyzed by these authors was somewhat less than three times as potent as the T. pachanoi. The effective dose of T. peruvianus would thus be 25-42 grams of the dried cactus.

Hope that information is helpful.

[loochypooch]

Regarding the relative concentrations of alkaloids in Trichocereus pachanoi and Trichocereus peruvianus:

1) Crosby, D.M. & McLaughlin, J.L. (1973). Cactus alkaloids. XIX.
Crystallization of Mescaline HCL and 3-Methoxytyramine HCL from
Trichocereus pachanoi. Lloydia, VOl 36, No. 4.

2) Pardanani, J.H., McLaughlin, J.L., Kondrat, R.W., & Cooks, R.G. (1977).
Cactus Alkaloids. XXXVI. Mescaline and Related Compounds from
Trichocereus peruvianus. Lloydia, Vol 40., No. 6, pp. 585-590.

In the former article, a concentration of 0.331% mescaline base was obtained from freeze-dried Trichocereus pachanoi. Note that the sulfate salt has a heavier weight and requires 300-500 mg for a full dose; the hydrochloride salt is less heavy and requires 225-375 mg for a full dose; the free base requires 205-343 mg for a full dose. Thus, a full dose of the cactus would be 57-96 grams, dry weight.

In the latter article, a concentration of 0.82% mescaline base was obtained. Thus, Trichocereus peruvianus analyzed by these authors was somewhat less than three times as potent as the T. pachanoi. The effective dose of T. peruvianus would thus be 25-42 grams of the dried cactus.

Hope that information is helpful.

Well that information is kind of dated I think though. Most powder online sold as Peruvian Torch Incense is purported to be between 1 and 1.5% alkaloid content and consists of green tissue only. Those studies probably included white tissue, of which Peruvianus probably has more than Pachanoi because it is fatter.

I would guess your 13g of extract is probably 10% alkaloid content (i.e. 4g=400mg).

[hogwild]

probably enough for one heavy dose.

[llamabox]

Ok so he has got from 1-4 doses here.... Yea very confusing.

I guess he will have to use lye and HCL next time......

Anybody got an extra SEP funnel?:hippie:

[loochypooch]

probably enough for one heavy dose.

One heavy dose? You think 120g is one dose? Let me reiterate.

1) 1% Alk content is common from green tissue only
2) 1% of 120g = 1200mg
3) Nice dose = 300-400mg, Heavier dose = 500-600mg
4) 1200mg / 400mg = 3 doses, 1200mg / 600mg = 2 doses

Hogwild, what does 100g of your powder feel like? Do you think your powder is 1% or more like .5%? What if Llamas was 1.5%?

Here is what the visionary cactus guide says and I'd trust these figures (http://www.erowid.or...guide17.shtml):

LOW DOSE, 100 - 200mg A mild buzz, to good trip with some visuals.
MODERATE DOSE, 200 - 300mg Average dosage, strong visuals.
HIGH DOSE, 300 - 500mg Intense visuals, ego dissociation possible.
EXTREME DOSE, 500 - 800mg For experienced, competent explorers only.
MAXIMUM SAFE DOSE, 1000 mg Dangerous ground to tread on.
HIGHEST KNOWN DOSE, 1500 mg Mr. Death might be the ultimate discovery?

See this thread: http://mycotopia.net...ead.php?t=10418

[kija.]

So the alcohol extraction does not get all the mesc
out of the cacti???

[kija.]

This has been asked before i believe,but would 99% isopropyl work just as well??