Jump to content

- - - - -


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 18 April 2004 - 07:35 PM

thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on permaculture
a few definitions...
Graham Bell, The Permaculture Way

Permaculture is the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive systems which have the diversity, stability, and resilience of natural ecosystems. It is the harmonious integration of the landscape with people providing their food, energy, shelter and other material and non-material needs in a sustainable way.

Simon Henderson, Cortez IS, BC

Permaculture is the use of ecology as the basis for designing integrated systems of food production, housing appropriate technology and community development. It offers a practical, creative approach to the problems of diminishing resources and threatened life support systems now facing the world.

Guy Baldwin, Cortez Is, BC

Permaculture is a holistic approach to landscape design and human culture. It is an attempt to integrate several disciplines, including biology, ecology, geography, agriculture, architecture, appropriate technology, gardening and community building.

I've always been trying to create such a sustainable environment in the gardens i worked in.
To make permaculture work well , it is necessary to have knowledge of the plants and animals that populate the garden ,as well as of the soil. Perennials play an important role in this type of gardening as they keep the soil covered and keep soillife optimal.A healthy soil will produce wild mushrooms all over the place.A mulch layer provides a shield between weatherconditions ,uv-rays etc and the soillife .I think that each garden has its own possibilities to create a permacultural situation because it means adapting to the existing it can be practiced everywhere.
i'll tell about some ways i practice these ideas in real life...
i was lucky to be able to buy a plot that was not worked on for 8 years ,so no poisoning or other misuses had happened during that time.
one of the most invasive weeds in the garden is the buttercup (ranunculus),it's poisonous for man and animal and inhibits growth of nearby plants.
Each year i weeded them out as much as i could and now they almost entirely disappeared to make place for usefull other wild plants. The result is a greater variety of plantlife.
Posted Image
The only poison i've used thus far in these years was ratpoison ,because i'm obliged by law to kill them asap and the neighbour asked to do so.
One of my goals is to be selfsufficient as much as possible in the garden. One of the things that helps to do this is to plant trees of all kind to increase wildlife and a more natural scene.
i try to minimize the use of synthetic material as much as possible. While gardening ,these synthetics somehow don't match inside and my eyes experience them as very unnatural.
permaculture creates recycles
lately i housed a rooster and 2 hens (silkie fowls)and i'm really glad i did it. The manure can be used in many positive ways (composts-substrates etc.) ,the chickens eat many of the common weeds and even ornamentals ,they eat harmful insects ,they provide meat and eggs ,
they are great fun to watch and listen (i'll try to record those noises later on )and can be placed to pick the weeds that become to dominant.
One of the main ideas to me is that the garden is part of the bigger ecosystem ,that manhood is only part of it and not the central factor ,that the garden must be a place to protect nature so the goal is not to use harmful chemicals.
The result is respect and humility towards the garden and the ecosystem as a whole.
Of course it is a never ending learning proces.
Lately i focus on the improvement of conditions for outside mushroomgrowth .Woodmulching is one of the ways i use ,composting ,planting trees ,etc., to do this.
One of the things that lately keeps my mind busy is how the hens can help in colonizing substrates.while they keep the eggs warm ,they can keep warm the myc as well , so no heat gets lost Posted Image
so ,that's it for now
happy gardening you all
Posted Image

#2 Guest_grimble_*

  • Guest

Posted 19 April 2004 - 01:47 AM

Right On!
Sounds like you got the right idea brotherPosted Image

I have not the fortune to have such a lot as yours,
but soon I shall. Such practices I shall also employ!
Good deal!

#3 pskovinsky


    Ex-chat M0d of Doom, y3

  • Expired Member
  • 1,354 posts

Posted 19 April 2004 - 11:36 AM

sounds like a nice place!

My only request is that you use traps, rather then poison, as poison can kill neighboring cats and dogs as well, some poisons will kill them even if they just eat part of a rat dead from it. (didn't know that till one of my cats starting puking up blood and we went to the vet.... turned out to be something else and the cat is fine, but it scared me shitless).

Thats a really neat looking garden, lots of nice colors, i like how it still has dandelions too Posted Image

#4 Guest_sweetness_*

  • Guest

Posted 19 April 2004 - 10:23 PM

<font color="0000ff">Thanks for starting the thread. I have been accumulating tons of links and just haven't gotten around to organizing them for us. Time to sort them out and post!</font>

#5 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 22 April 2004 - 03:11 AM

thanks all for the replies
looking forward to those links , sweetness
Pskov ,you're right about the poison
luckily no other animals were killed than the rats but still...traps sound like a far better solution
any experience with traps anyone ?

#6 cedargrove



  • Expired Member
  • 217 posts

Posted 22 April 2004 - 08:50 AM

When I was a kid we used to make simple box traps
out of plywood. We would catch everything from
opposum to ferrel cats.

#7 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 22 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

C.,you have a design for those traps ?

#8 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 22 April 2004 - 06:50 PM

the new members of the team on their first day (the second hen is going stealth Posted Image

Posted Image

#9 cedargrove



  • Expired Member
  • 217 posts

Posted 23 April 2004 - 02:00 PM

O.K. MD I tried to draw up a little design for the trap we used to make as kids and here is
what i came up with. Sorry it kinda sucks.
I didnt include any measurements because you just build it to suit your needs.

Here is roughly what the thing looks like.
Posted Image

Here is sort-of a cross section so you can see how it works.
Posted Image

And here is what the trigger looks like.
Posted Image

I know this is very vague but im really short on time today. If you cant work with this then let me know. I bet with a little more time I could
wip up some sort of blueprint. If I knew what size you needed I could draw it just for that.

Also I saw at the hardware store that you can
buy livetraps for about 25$. But the homemade ones look so cool. Kids love them too.

Oh yea. The notch in the trigger is upside down.
no time to fix.

#10 Guest_sweetness_*

  • Guest

Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:27 PM

<font color="0000ff">Now THOSE are cool looking chicks!!</font>

#11 Guest_hippie3_*

  • Guest

Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:52 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

only poison i've used thus far in these years was ratpoison ,because i'm obliged by law to kill them asap<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
why not use live traps instead ?
then you could at least use them
to feed your pet snakes, etc.
poison is a painful death,
even kills those who feed on the corpse.
bad karma, imo.
not to mention to stench of rotting rat corpses in obscure, inaccessible areas.

#12 Guest_hippie3_*

  • Guest

Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:56 PM

btw, rat poison is usually heparin,
a blood thinner
which explains why the cats bleed
after eating poisoned rats.
Hav-a-Heart makes humane traps
here's one source

#13 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 24 April 2004 - 09:33 PM

the trap looks good ,but once the rat is trapped , i don't have snakes or friends who have 'em so that would leave me with a live rat in a cage
today while talking about rats someone told me the cavias scare away rats because they can't stand the noise of the cavias ,i'll investigate this as i know people with cavias and i'll ask if they have problems with rats , just as an indication if this is lore or got truth inside
cavias are excellent breeders so it isn't hard to find someone who has a few males...if that story has any truth , as said
another animal ,commonly kept here is the ferret

Posted Image
a rathunter
it could be a perfect co-operation to see my dog work together with a ferret to catch the rats ,my dog rarely catches something when on his own

#14 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 24 April 2004 - 09:41 PM

Posted Image
Hip ,wondering about the etc. part in
"then you could at least use them
to feed your pet snakes, etc. "
any other animals that like rats for dinner ?

#15 Guest_hippie3_*

  • Guest

Posted 25 April 2004 - 02:28 PM

ferrets are cool, i've had 3 over the years.
as for what else might eat a rat,
depends on relative sizes.
cats, tarantulas, falcons and bullfrogs are possibilities.

(Message edited by admin on April 25, 2004)

#16 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 25 April 2004 - 06:44 PM

this i found on the bullfrogs :
North American Bullfrogs prefer warm weather and will hibernate during cold weather. A bullfrog may bury itself in mud and construct a small cave-like structure for the winter. The call of a male bullfrog has a low frequency and can be heard over a distance of one kilometer. The sound is often described as a low rumbling "jug-o-rum". Adult males are very aggressive and defend their territories, which can range from 3 to 25 meters of shoreline, by physically wrestling with others. Their hunting style is 'sit and wait.' Bullfrogs wait for some type of prey to come by, then with a flash of the tongue, they grab it and bring it into the mouth."
i must say i admire their hunting style ,lol
i think they are great animals ,that low rumble sound would be cool too but there seems to be a problem in the fact that he adapts too easily and with no predators and a longer mating season than the local frogs ,the other species tend to disappear as seems to be the problem in Colorado right now , damn pity as i'm fond of them already...
the other 3 i don't mind living with at all but the ferret could mean companion for my dog ,and hunting both together dog and ferret (and man)seems like the way to go
info from the animal diversity web at

#17 Guest_sweetness_*

  • Guest

Posted 26 April 2004 - 09:57 PM

<font color="0000ff">I've started a sub-topic for links on eco-friendly gardening. I'll add more sub-topics as categories on sustainable living as time permits.</font>

#18 Guest_roo_*

  • Guest

Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:59 AM

Thanks, great topic.

#19 Guest_primate_*

  • Guest

Posted 28 April 2004 - 10:40 AM

What ever you do, for the sake of your pet's safety, do not feed a live rat to any animal, not even a snake. You don't want to risk the rat hurting or killing your pet, not to mention in the case of snakes feeding them live animals can make them more aggressive. Who knows what diseases/sickness a wild rat might have as well, so you don't want your pet being bitten.

If you really want to put those wild rats (really this goes for domesticated ones as well) to use you better kill them first. I recommend drowning or freezing. I know it sounds cruel or morbid but it is better off that way, trust me. If you freeze them (which I prefer) just thaw them by soaking in hot water for about 15-30 minutes depending on the size.

#20 Guest_myco_*

  • Guest

Posted 01 May 2004 - 12:59 PM

i don't think that would be a problem for the ferrets as they should get yearly injections for these kind of diseases .like the weill disease ,this can infect a dog or man who works in the garden where rats have been ,from what i've read
over here a lot of hunting is done with ferrets ,but don't find documentation on adverse effects

Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!