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#1 morfin-56

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

Last night while I was tripping, I got to thinking about string theory.(ended up chewing on my headphone cord for an hour or two)
Well I thought about it a WHOLE lot and I got to the idea that everything as we know it is a string, a very very thin string.
This string is never ending, it is one with the space time continuum, it weaves back into itself and it is never ending.

This brings me to the thought, what are quarks? atoms?
Easy, they are very complex twists and knots in this never ending string.
A quark is made up of billions of tiny knots, and is a knot in its self.
And an atom is certain knots of quarks together.

Then this got me thinking how does time relate into all these knots and a string that is never ending and inter connects back with itself.
As we all know, you cant tie a permanent knot it a string that is connected at the ends, if you try you can just pull it apart.
I thought that matter as we know it is just knots in a string and time is just the string moving but keeping the knot in the same spot.
Endlessly fed more string to keep the same knot in the same spot and as the string moved time progressed.
That would explain E=MC^2 right?
These strings are moving at C and if you reach speed C your moving at the same speed as the time you are composed of thus time stops.
(or seems to stop)

Just some absolutely crazy thoughts, took(8g dry) 1 gram more then my highest dose.

After the majority of the trip I watched this movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9wLEfXz5pU
One of the best movies I've seen in a while, ended up watching it twice because the first time I had so many questions.
I still have questions though and no one to ask, anyway great movie.
"What the fuck is a grift" ended up searching that on google while I was tripping.:lol:
Looking back at my browsers history is a little funny the day after.
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#2 Myc

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:01 AM

My immediate thoughts on time:
Time does not exist.
"Time" is an abstract concept which is really just another complex way of representing distance.
Think about it - our clock is simply a physical representation of a point of light projected onto the surface of the globe.
"Time" is actually a measure of lineal distance traveled along the face of the globe.
Arc minutes and arc seconds equal very specific distances.

The idea of time and duration totally break down when you remove the observer from the experiment.
A train travelling 100 miles per hour is heading west.
You are on the train (on a flat car) playing catch with a friend.
You throw a 50 mph ball in the same westward direction as the train travels
How fast is the ball travelling?

Depends on where you place the speed measuring device.
Speeds measured from your train car will show a 50 mph ball.
Speeds measured from beside the track as you, the train, and the ball pass by........much faster
Where is the observer? Time only exists for those who are part of an experiment.
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#3 morfin-56

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

So your saying time didn't exist before there was a who to be part of an experiment?
In my mind time always exists, its a part of eveything, every piece of matter has time(living or not).
The idea with the ball is all relativity.
Relative to the train car, no matter which way the ball is thrown, it will read 50 mph.
Relative to the earth, a ball throw [email protected] from a train moving [email protected], the ball will be going 150mph.(minus air resistance)

#4 Ilia

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

"As we all know, you cant tie a permanent knot it a string that is connected at the ends,"
Hmm go make a loop out of some string and practice tying it around stuff.

#5 Myc

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

So your saying time didn't exist before there was a who to be part of an experiment?
In my mind time always exists, its a part of eveything, every piece of matter has time(living or not).
The idea with the ball is all relativity.

Yes, "time" does not exist.
There was a time - (ha ha) - that I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you....until I read.......
http://en.wikipedia...._of_Time_(book)

#6 Alder Logs

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:24 AM

In the beginning was the Motion, and the Motion was with God, and the Motion was God...

#7 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

I was in the "time doesn't exist" camp until very recently, but then saw compelling arguments that made me change my mind.

I thought that there was only motion and no discrete force or dimension that embodied "time" existed, just that what we call "time" is merely linguistic shorthand for motion and what prevents everything from happening all at once is the requirement that all particles have to move from where they are "now" to where they "will be" and that motion is vectored by various forces (i.e. gravity) and the motion of other particles on their own journeys until a system of such immense complexity exists that abstract shorthand is the only way to begin to discuss it. To me, talking about time was like asking astronauts "How's it going up there?" Up?!? What does "up" mean when you're not on a planet? That's a convenient shorthand to talk to them without it being too tedious but not reflective of the reality at all and fosters inaccurate conceptualizations of the physical world that may or may not be detrimental (time will tell, lol).

Well, all that changed when I stumbled across the idea that time is not a force but a dimension (an idea I'd rejected a long time ago until seeing this new twist on it). It's a plane and so consists of an X and a Y axis, but we are only capable of experiencing one of them so we only perceive it as linear. Quantum phenomena are not bound by this like we are, so we get strange behavior like those inscrutable particles that wink in and out of existence at random. That raises the question of Where the hell did they "go" while they weren't "here" and how do they manage to come "back" to the same spot that they disappeared from?!?

And since I'm not actually a quantum physicist (but I'm training to be a quantum mechanic) I can't produce the math but the explanation from those who can is that the particle may be moving perpendicular to our axis of time; that is, if time is a two-dimensional plane then anything that slips off our axis perpendicularly will disappear from our perception but will still be occupying the same physical "space." That's how it manages to wink back into the same spot it left; no other theory explains how it could do that since every particle is constantly in motion relative to something else so our physical location in "space" (which here refers to a tangible thing that gravity can bend, not the infinite void or "no-thing" outside the Universe) is constantly changing to a degree that even during the span of a nanosecond we have moved micrometers compared to some objects and hundreds of miles compared to others, so how a particle can reappear in the exact same spot it disappeared from this dimension in can only be explained by it not actually moving in space, so that only leaves movement in time. And to move in one but not the other implies both exist and are not necessarily a single continuum like Einstein's "spacetime." Q.E.D!

That also explains how there is no time in the spirit world, or at least that's what all adepts at navigating the mental inner space filled with Puzzling Evidence claim. It would also explain "where" the spirit world "is;" it's just off to the side a little bit! And since it's so much bigger than the known-to-us physical world, it makes perfect sense that 95% of the mass and energy of the Universe has still not been found. They've been detected, but Dark Matter and Dark Energy will never be "found" as they're about a nanometer perpendicular to our normal perceptual axis of time.

#8 Myc

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Could you throw us some associated reading material?

You are touching on some things I've been pondering. I haven't abandoned theory just yet.
It's silly to think of other dimensions as "rooms", having volume and limits describable with 3-d terms - funny how we continually rely upon the 3-d for descriptive purposes.

I have better 3-d analogies (I think)
The dimensions all exist at once
Perception of these dimensions requires filtration - i.e. "hallucinogenic" substances, meditation/trance, some means by which to induce hyper-awareness of the senses (intense lab work).

Just like in our everyday reality
We are not chronically bombarded by all radio and television stations. (Please - save arguments to the contrary for another thread.) Instead, we use devices to hear these transmissions, we use devices to see - television, infra-red, various trick captured images......I hope you get the idea. All of these energies exist - at all times, everywhere - yet they are not readily perceptible.
Just like "hallucinogens" turn on (or off) certain filtration devices within the brain.

#9 Dr.Psilo.

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:20 PM

Space cannot exist without time and time cannot exist without space.

#10 Alder Logs

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:45 PM

Do we have three dimensions of apple and one of orange?

That's what calling time by the same handle as height, width, and depth, is to me.

Things happen in three dimensions and it takes some time to do them right.

To me, there is this non-material stuff that material is spun up from. Once all of the parts of something get spun up, then the spins, via their motive forces, seem to have a more appreciable substance. Spin directions create polarities, and this means that certain spins can comfortably hang out with other spins at varied distances. So, the non-material stuff is also pre-material stuff, and quite likely it's going to be post material stuff (in time).

They used to call that non-material stuff, "the luminiferous ether." But, Michelson and Morley went looking for "a stationary ether in space," and set up an experiment to either prove, or disprove, its existence. Their experiment proved, as they read it, that there was no stationary ether in space. They did not, however, disprove a possible ether that could have been spinning along with their experiment, or for that matter, be actually spinning the planet on which they conducted their experiment. Nevertheless, much notion of any ether whatsoever went out of vogue. Space became vacuum space, though we know that's not quite the case.

Could both time and space exist as a result of shit spinning? It certainly takes three axes of space to work this one out, and just a little time. Durn, time is evident on this planet and Ol' Sol will be sneaking off in some little part of our arbitrary 24 measures of that time what'z'its. This means I can't sit in this chair while there's stuff my mind has invented for me to do outside. Motion itself pushes me onward.

Laters.

#11 ShinobiFeather

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

Good explorations!
Here's my mind meanderings.
I have time travelled I can teach you how. This sounds crazy.
Time is ONLY a measurement.. NOT the thing itself.

I've gone open eyed, several minutes into the future on various occasions.
There are eye exercises and breathing techniques to achieve this. The allies help. And so too, Richard Bandlers insights on time distortion.
You can basically tune out the focus, and dial in peripheries..to the point you can exist pre or post-emptively. removing your 'ground' and designating new 'figure' associations, can unfuck and rewire your potential to experience that anything is possible.

Now, you basically change what your body/brain is measuring, what its relationship is to the object/experience etc..
and if you've
hacked the right 'beliefs'
its possible to cognize not only the probability wavelengths on any current space-time potential, but also to determine those in co-creation with the fluid state of flux. (non-linear-multi-referential-space..measurement:open mindedness)
Trickier is sensible navigation, recall and integration of the signals..
and getting back 'home'. ie:your own, or consensual sanity

Silver is the key. reflective light..infinite imagination..aka cord connect..
not golden, like the sun- and its popular connection to time (Earth moving around sun= 1 year) = TIME!!! :s

On other planets..in other spaces..different light..and different objects measurement associations = different 'time'.

it is entirely possible to time travel- even years or decades or more, into the future..

it just doesnt work quite like the Delorean.

My prediction is that this breakthrough will only appear boring or insane, and most will go back to their fairytale abstracts of time, and mind edge conditions of im-possibiliy.

#12 morfin-56

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

If time was mearly a measurement then it wouldn't be proportional to speed.
You can measure speed and you can measure time in what you believe is accurate.
Time isn't a measurement, time is whats being measured.

As you approach speed C time slows down... Leads me to believe time is intertwined in the medium in which your traveling through,
And the speed at which your traveling through that medium is affecting time.

There is a correlation between space and matter and a correlation between space and time, in my mind the most obvious answer is matter and time are one in the same.

If time is only existent to the observer wouldn't that mean that the everything was created with the observer at the same time that time was created?
Saying time doesn't exist is like saying there isn't time between this time(the big bang) and this time(the creation of the observer)!
This universe we are in is time, from beginning to ∞.

Edited by morfin-56, 25 April 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#13 Dr.Psilo.

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

ShinobiFeather - I think you've simply learned to alter your perception of time, not time itself. Same concept as "time flies when you're having fun" or "time crawls when you're bored."

#14 Mahe

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:51 PM

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once" - Berto Einstein

#15 Myc

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:12 PM

If time is only existent to the observer wouldn't that mean that the everything was created with the observer at the same time that time was created?


Right on the nose! That's exactly what I imply.
This idea ties in with other thoughts (of mine) that we are but particles of said Observer. Each of us experiencing "reality" from a different perspective.

Not to dismiss your argument. I'm always seeking new material for study.
You definitely have thrown a major log into my logic.
I see time as a measurement - like a ruler
You see time as an abstract whole - yet immeasurable
Hmmm......
That's why I get involved.

#16 morfin-56

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:49 PM

You see time as an abstract whole - yet immeasurable

I don't think of it as necessarily immeasurable, I just think that time is... time.
Every one perceives it differently and there are so many things that come into play that can alter time, thus its hard to measure.
Gravity, no gravity, speed, who knows how fast(or slow) time is at the center of the galaxy, or on an entirely different galaxy.
There are some many factors that come into play and even the most accurate ion clocks can't be accurate if their time is dependent on so many factors.

Shit, how would we know if at certain points in the earth's rotation that time doesn't go faster or slower?
How would we know without taking the idea into account?
Why doesn't the world focus more on science and the knowing instead of war/religion/money?

If I had a say so, experiments and studies would be the top of the priority for the human race.
Our race needs to be more advanced than it is, who knows what we have coming for us.

Has any one thought to have a satellite measuring time placed in a stationary position on earth's orbit around the sun
to see how much difference there is in time measured on earth and the satellite in its stationary position after they reach each other again a year later?

#17 Alder Logs

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:57 PM

My take on what many call "other dimensoins," all that other stuff that seems it could be going on in somehow parallel spaces, is that the other stuff is operating in the same three dimensions as we are, but doing it at non-physical densities. Could be places that are right here, like what some mystics call, "the astral plane." I think that's just one level of density where actions at distance happen, some across the various densities. Maybe as the different ethers rise up some spectrum to ever higher, finer densities, time bears differently, or maybe not at all.

So there, I said it: there are but three dimensions of space. At the density of the physical, we can see that time bears. I'm willing to bet that the energies that occur in the finer densities would likely bear here in physical space, might even be what kicks our butts into action. Just maybe.

#18 Mahe

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:04 AM

No to digress from this thread, but even if we met other life forms and they didn't have 10 fingers and 10 toes, their numbering system will be totally different than ours, basically it's all "relative".

#19 mate0x

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:14 AM

Has any one thought to have a satellite measuring time placed in a stationary position on earth's orbit around the sun
to see how much difference there is in time measured on earth and the satellite in its stationary position after they reach each other again a year later?


This thread is very interesting, and in many ways over my head...

I was under the impression astronauts do experience time dilation, if they could see our clocks on earth they would appear to be moving faster.

#20 morfin-56

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

This thread is very interesting, and in many ways over my head...

I was under the impression astronauts do experience time dilation, if they could see our clocks on earth they would appear to be moving faster.

In fact they do!
The time dilation they experience is dependent on gravity, farther away from earth's gravity time moves faster.

An experiment was done on this with very precise ion clocks, the one on earth appears to go at normal speeds to us but the one relieved of earth's gravity ticked faster.
More like here on earth time moves slowly and in space its normal.
Makes me wonder where in the universe is time an absolute constant and under what conditions?

Edited by morfin-56, 26 April 2012 - 04:59 PM.





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