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Guided Meditation

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#21 TVCasualty


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Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:18 AM

IMO, Ego isn't limited in a context of conflict. The ego is the mind, the voice in your head, the thing you get rid of with tryptamines, the identification process, the thing that likes to put words on things and things in little boxes...
I do get your point about conflict, though, but I feel that's far from the whole story...

[EDIT] I think I found it : ego is the thing that stops us from being ONE, that separates our collective consciousness.

When I "lose" my ego on tryptamines there is still a self-aware perceiver present, it just seems to have forgotten how it relates to the surrounding non-self.

I have read some compelling arguments against the existence of ego, and have started leaning toward the possibility that like the concept of a "dimension" in physics, "ego" is similarly not an actual "thing." As one physicist put it:

Dimensions are symbolic conveniences, not accurate descriptions of reality, but descriptions of the limits of minds habituated through the use of grammatic conventions and the experience of time as linear, unidirectional, nonsimultaneous, and through empirical assumptions derived from 'filling in the blanks to make a coherent continuous picture' style of processing visually accessed data. In other words a way of modeling. Models are by definition not real. String theory seems to me to be all tangled up in the practice of adding these supposed dimensions in order to make the model coherent.

It's not a perfect fit, but I can replace the terms "dimension" with ego and "string theory" with psychology and it sort of approximates what I'm getting at.

It may be possible to achieve permanent ego loss by declaring the ego to be non-existent, but if we don't have an ego then what DO we have? It might be loops of meta-awareness, and by that I mean there's a perceiver inside our mind that observes the thoughts of that mind while somehow remaining separate from them, and we can step back further and think about the thoughts we had about the thought we had and step back again to see the thoughts about the thoughts about the thought and so on like two mirrors reflecting each other as many times as one cares to look.

I suspect that what we usually call "ego loss" during a psychedelic experience can also be explained as a loss of that meta-analysis ability which leaves us perceiving the world but unable to perceive our perceptions thereby making interpretation much more difficult. Perceiving perception is not the same as a sense of self, or the concept of "I" since while I've felt the Oneness with all things that mystics talk about there was still a discrete perceiver of that feeling "in here" somewhere. That's probably why powerful trips often leave us just sitting there in awe, taking it all in and not really able to do much else. We might even forget our own name, and yet we're still awake and aware and able to interact with our surroundings (unless we're delirious on a dissociative) so clearly some parts of our brains are functioning normally and some are not.

I really think "ego" is too simplistic to explain the kinds of things we're experiencing and the term was coined before modern neuroscience had been born and the more up to date research I read about the more "ego" seems like an obsolete concept. It's a work in progress.

Edited by TVCasualty, 28 April 2012 - 09:24 AM.

#22 quntumind



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Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:23 AM

Ego is the personality that is put in place to block us from the Source of All That Is. Without our ego...which I believe is a filter to shield us from our source...there can be no real learning experience in this lifetime. The old saying" If I had known then what I know now" applies here. The ego prevents us from knowing of past lives so we may have a fresh experience in this current existence. It has been said that when we die...all will be revealed. That is when we have direct non-physical contact with the Source. Various substances available to man have given us the means to bypass physical death in order to connect with other dimensions by subduing our "ego". What do I know...maybe my shaman came through....:meditate:

#23 koldj


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Posted 29 April 2012 - 02:39 AM

I don't know who taught people that ego is an obstacle. It isn't. Ego is your best tool that you can use in this life. Through your ego you must find a way to the Source, if that's what you wish. People who I know to be enlightened have no problems with any kind of emotions or behavior. They just express themselves freely. Blocking the ego, subduing your natural needs is just as bad as being madly driven by the external stimuli to the ego.
And most importantly enlightenment is not about getting somewhere else, into a different state of consciousness, seeing the White Light all the time and dissolving in it. Enlightenment is not escape from the problems and sailing in space where all the troubles are gone... this is the reason why people do heroin. Enlightenment is knowing that everything you do is correct with your deep self. At any moment, everywhere and all the time. Enlightenment is marked by internal happiness and being content with what you're experiencing. It means no worry for the future or past or wondering how to find a way to something holier - because sacredness is experienced in the Now.
Once again - it's not about ascetic humbleness. Yes for some, but I say - find your own way, not only monks are enlightened.

#24 TVCasualty


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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

As some ancient Wise Ass once said:

Before enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water.

After enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water.

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#25 quntumind



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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

An Amazon Shaman once said..."Shamanism is to see". They always seem to keep it pretty simple...

#26 prof_it_e



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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

If anymore patience on the subject of ego can be spared, i'd like to add two cents please?
From reading the above I was reminded of a thought I had once involving an experience with Salvia..; it's almost as if there's this thing that you are before you are your ego, but it needs something to identify with ~ and so it identifies with the ego by default. Without an ego it's like being the driver of a car, but without a car, something like that. This evolved into an understanding of what gets done by people who dabble in altered states of consciousness; what they try to achieve in the various disciplines - a lot of the time perhaps knowing they are about to abandon their traditional vehicle - the ego - another vehicle is prepared for the experience ~ and so the relevance of symbols, or sounds, or spirit guides / animals etc.
And more, >apologies to hijack your thread quntumind<, understanding the subject seems pivotal and of course the thoughts about it shared above do resonate - in fact say more or less the same thing; today I was reading a bit and I think the following seemed a bit helpful, it created a context to attempt this in;

"Yet, what has all this to do with the idea of "not doing"? Surely the Taoists are specifically enjoined to act in the way that their Tao motivates them. The answer to this lies in the fact that those who have attained the knowledge of how the Tao specifically flows in their lives have also effectively found themselves. The road that adepts tread is one with their essential identities; the True Self, devoid of interference from the egocentric human consciousness, realizes its own potential by following its chosen Way, because the Self is the Way. The Path, and that which walks upon it, are ultimately the same thing. Hence, every truly harmonious act arises spontaneously, effortlessly, and naturally from a sense of unity with the Tao; each deed should be a genuine manifestation of the Inner Nature, rather than a forced and false action decided upon by the dictates of the human ego.
Therefore, all activity that conforms to wu-wei does so because it is free from the constraints of human calculation. The Taoist view of "doing," on the contrary, implies going out of one's way to achieve something, by mental, emotional, or physical effort, which is not in harmony with the real concerns of the practitioner's True Self."

Magick, Shamanism & Taoism: The I Ching in Ritual & Meditation © 2001 by Richard Herne.
(Available for download @
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#27 quntumind



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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:13 PM

Not hijacked...just evolving into something...else :eusa_ange

#28 Spliff



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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

No, I wouldnt pay $$$ for some $ham-man to share his philosophy with me, but that I can $pla$h out on
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#29 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 03:28 PM

This thread predates the Spirituality forum, which is why it's here, I guess (maybe it should be moved there).   Not wanting this posted under the more recent heading of "Transcendental Meditation," I went on searching here on the single term, "meditation," and found this thread.  I called it up for posting this YouTube of Rupert Spira's gentle, but powerful, lead-in to a presence of being, as we are, as awareness or consciousness, the terms he brought to bear for this existence beyond descriptors.   If you have the time and inclination to be quieted for a little less than an hour, I don't think this will disappoint or discomfort anything in us that we can't do without for just a bit.




[Direct Link]

Edited by Alder Logs, 03 November 2017 - 03:30 PM.

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