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Fly Agaric (Amanita Muscaria)


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#1 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:35 AM

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This mushroom naturally contains deadly toxins and sometimes results in a fatal experience when injested by humans. However, when dried properly, it loses most of its deadly toxins and is said to be the strongest, most powerful mushroom known to man. Check out these you-tube videos on fly agaric:
The first two are just preperations for the experiment, but toward the end of episode 3-5 are them actually after taking the fly. Very interesting video.





Never-the-less, there are approx 10 deaths in Europe every year that result in an Amanita Muscaria overdose. Even the dried mushroom (in abnormally large quantities) contains enough of the toxin to cause damage.

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#2 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:08 AM

i'd suspect those deaths were cases of mistaken ID by gatherers.

#3 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 12:18 PM

Those deaths are not "general mushroom related deaths" they are deaths directly atributed to the toxins found in Amanita Muscaria. Whether they ate them fresh or dried I'm not sure. But the Fresh mushroom is definetly very toxic and can be fatal.

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 01:21 PM

I found this september lots of this fly agaric shrooms!

I alvays wanted to try it but the experience was not that i avaited!

I cooked 10g dry for a tee i!:drk: :drk: :drk: :drk:

Dont do it!!! It vas simpley like a toxication and i felt nothing good aldough i smoked pot!:dead:

Newer again.....

#5 hogwild

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 02:05 PM

I will never take amanitas, theres no point IMHFO, because there are cubies and cyans, azures infinate possibilites. No need to add a potentially poisonous mushroom to the list.

#6 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 02:48 PM

I don't understand why they made them try Fly Agaric in this video.. ive watched several episodes of "Sacred Weeds" and they are both very interesting and informative.. but like you said, there are so many other magic mushrooms and by examing their experience in the video i would say it was no more psychedelic or intense then any Cubensis or Azurescens..

#7 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 03:01 PM

Please direct me to the source of this quote: "there are approx 10 deaths in Europe every year that result in an Amanita Muscaria overdose." That statement is in direct opposition to a large volume of research I have done over a number of years. It also does not agree with about 15 minutes worth of google searches I just finished doing.

Without specific, reputable sources documenting specific, named cases where stomach contents were analyzed and A. muscaria was identified as the fatal intoxicant, I've got to politely but very firmly disagree with you. There is much propoganda about A. muscaria deaths, but there are also a lot of people out there who believe in Blue Star tattoos full of strychnine.

There are MANY deaths attributed to Amantia phalloides and A. virosa (and CONFIRMED to be caused by them) every year. Statistically, based on the number of deaths, A. phalloides is the most dangerous mushroom on the planet. Now, though A. muscaria, A. pantherina and A. formosa are all classified as toxic, I can tell you from 20+ years eating them, that simply is not the case. Based on their history of use as an intoxicant and entheogen by many cultures around the world for many thousands of years, there are remarkably few documented cases of people dying from consuming them. Blowing chunks - yes. Dying - no.

The fresh mushroom is, in fact, only mildly toxic. The toxins are very easily removed, by the way, by slicing and parboiling the mushrooms in plain water for about 5 minutes. A. muscaria is a delicious mushroom, fresh. They taste like pickled ass once they are dried.

The Amanita trip isn't for everybody, though, and most people take far too much to have a good time. 10g dried is a good bit too much for your first time, especially if they were still pretty fresh. Also, they are absolutely NOTHING like psilocybes. Amis are far more like henbane or belladonna than psillys.

I compare the Ami experience with alcohol. Have a little, good stuff, great "social lubricant." Have a little too much, not so great, clumsy, slurring and you might well vomit. Have a lot too much and, quite honestly, you are likely to spend a few hours wishing you were dead. Positive vs. negative experience is generally a result of dosage.

Would you consider beer a good drug if you had only ever consumed it in gallon jugs that you finished off in 5 minutes? Not bloody likely!

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but posts like this really piss me off.

Friggin' soap box time:

A. muscaria is NOT A TOXIC MUSHROOM. I have personally consumed 20-30 dried grams of A. muscaria on numerous occasions. Twice, I have had over 60 dried grams. I consume a weak Amanita tea (usually 1-3 grams) almost EVERY FRIGGIN' DAY. THEY ARE NOT POISIONOUS IN QUANTITIES LESS THAN A FEW HUNDRED GRAMS AND EVEN THEN I HAVE SERIOUS DOUBTS.

A. muscaria is also not an "eat a bunch and have fun tripping out with my friends" mushroom. A. muscaria is a VERY deeply sacred and potentially world shattering psychedelic mushroom. It is MOST ASSUREDLY a mushroom with a VERY HEAVY BODY LOAD when consumed in large quantities.

No cutesy breathing/crawling/morphing with large doses of Amis. No elves, no patterns. Just high end body load in the form of nausea, sweating, drooling, blurry eyes and deep sleep/unconsciousness combined with full on visions. Not CEVs - VISIONS.

Not for everybody but also NOT AUTOMATICALLY TOXIC.
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Posted 26 May 2006 - 03:12 PM

thank you!

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#9 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 03:29 PM

deaths directly atributed to the toxins found in Amanita Muscaria.


i'd like to see any link to the source of that claim as well.
i'm a skeptic.

#10 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 03:44 PM

They actually said it in one the video pieces I have put on my initial post. Either the 2nd or 3rd clip - while preparing the mushroom the mentioned the information which I assumed was fact because these guys are trying to conduct professional well thought-out and researched studies on the effects of natural psychoactive drugs. The exact quote was "Approx 10 deaths per year are recorded as a result of Amanita Muscaria overdose"

I'm not sure when the documentary was made but I'm thinking it was in the last 10 years. Give the documentary a watch and I'm sure you'll come across the part where one of the scientists mentions the information.

#11 boots420

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 05:09 PM

I always wondered about that amanita muscaria. an this post just filled that gap. nice.:teeth:

#12 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 05:33 PM

Piece taken from: http://www.magic-mus...et/dangers.html


A lot of people trip on Fly Agaric and call them magic mushrooms as well. Click HERE to search Erowid for more information.
However, don't confuse psilocybe mushrooms with Amanita Muscaria (fly agaric). There is no psilocybin nor psilocyn in Fly Agaric and we don't consider it a 'real' magic mushroom.



The (red with white dots) Amanita Muscaria can cause a very unpleasent experience and health problems. Potential symptoms of Muscarine, an active alkaloid of Fly Agaric and other Amanita's, followed after ingestion as described by The Merck Index are: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, headache and bronchospasm. With larger doses: acrimation, incontinence, bracycardia, hypotension and shock. Ibotanic acid, also an active substance of the Amanita's may cause brain damage as described by various authors on Public Medline. Muscimole is another active alkaloid in Amanita Muscaria. Its symptoms after oral intake are described by Richard Schultzes and Albert Hofmann as confusion, disoreantation in situation and time perception, disturbance of visual function and hearing, muscle twitching, weariness, fatigue and sleep. Psychic performance and learning are diminished. Jochem Gartz, a well known mushroom specialist warnes in his book 'Magic Mushrooms around the world' that Amatoxins contained in the Amanita's may be lethal!


What's more! Amanita's are legal everywhere, even in the USA. Would the drug tsars keep a drug legal that is really nice?



#13 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 06:45 PM

may ?
you assumed to be fact ?
they said it ?
on some website ?
i can quote websites too,
like this one.
plus you are taking that
and twisting it,
yes, certain amanitas are fatal
but not amanita muscaria.
:lol:
dude
that ain't gonna cut it.
i've eaten amanitas
so have plenty of others here.
we know better.
so unless you can cite a documented case
of an actual fatality that was absolutely certainly caused by
amanita muscaria
then i call bullshit.
shouldn't be that hard
if it's really true eh ?

#14 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 06:54 PM

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong - just showing where I got my information from - I don't believe Muscaria is as harmful as alot of people claim it to be. It might be possible that these encounters have been a result of confusion or strain mixup as you stated earlier. You guys know alot more than I do about mycology, I'm just here to learn :o .

But in your experience, how similar / different is Fly Agaric to strains which contain psilocybin?

#15 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:10 PM

totally different.
i didn't like them, very unpleasant
and that's why they are legal still.
let me steer you in the right direction with a link-
http://mycotopia.net...ghlight=amanita

#16 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:49 PM

Okay, pardon me, but it's time for a good old fashioned (and LONG) "Buckaroo rant."

Firstly, “scientists” can be just as guilty of spreading unfounded propaganda as anybody else. Who do you think the "drug warriors" get their manipulated/falsified statistics from?

IMHO, the only time you can really trust a “scientist” is when his reputation is on the line, i.e. when he is publishing in the peer reviewed journals. When they are just jawboning and/or giving sound bites…scientists are just as bad about self aggrandizement and statistical manipulation as any politician. Perhaps worse, as scientists are better at manipulating the numbers in a believable way.

Science lesson: the dangerous Amatoxins (specifically the amanitin and phallotoxin families) are not found in A. muscaria. These Amatoxins are the substances that will cause death if you consume the Death Cap (A. phalloides) or the Destroying Angel (A. virosa). The only Amatoxin in A. muscaria is ibotenic acid (which becomes muscimol/muscarine when the fruit is dried). Ibotenic acid is an isoxazole and a very large volume of it must be consumed to kill a healthy adult. Eating fresh A. muscaria (with unconverted ibotenic acid) will make you quite sick. There are at least two instances, confirmed by post mortem forensic toxicology workups, of death from eating fresh A. muscaria. One was a very young child and the other was an adult who ate over a hundred of them.

PLEASE be aware that A. muscaria, A. formosa and A. pantherina are all classified as poisonous because they cause hallucinations, not because they cause death. Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms are also classified as poisonous (or at least inedible) by most field guides, though there has never been a reported death attributed to psilocybin “poisoning.”

Please not that A. muscaria is NOT legal everywhere. As A. muscaria is a universally agreed upon “poison,” consuming them can be defined by an American court as attempted suicide. Attempted suicide is a felony in most parts of America.

Finally, PLEASE be aware that A. muscaria is absolutely NOTHING like Ps. cubensis. These two mushrooms are light years apart in there effects. Amis take 4-5 hours to “peak” and an Ami trip can easily last 8-10 hours. Amis make you sluggish and totally screw your balance. Amis make you drool and sweat and they make you nauseous (in larger quantities). Amis make your eyes blurry (yes, blurry – they totally trash your ability to focus where you want too). Amis make you slur. Amis, in low doses, are a lot more like alcohol than they are like cubies. In large doses, Amis are more like Salvia or DMT, not in the patterns they show, but in the way they totally take over your visual plane and give you true visions (not stuff crawling but rather the perception of things that simply are not there).

Also, my personal favorite about a big handful of Amis is something totally different from cubies: they make you drowsy. Large doses are guaranteed to knock your ass out and the dreams…well, you’ve got to experience them to understand, but they are WILD. If you’ve ever experienced a Datrua dream, you’ve been in the vicinity I’m talking about. I’ve experienced travel back (and forward) through time. I’ve experienced travel to alternate dimensions with purple skies and red grass.

I’ve met the guide who dwells within the Amanita. He (and this guide is most assuredly male) has VERY little patience for humans and NO PATIENCE WHATSOEVER for dabblers and people just looking to “trip out.” He does, however, like to implant things in your mind that will drive you mad. Some things cannot be “unseen.”

Another thing about Amanitas – the “good stuff” passes through your body almost completely unchanged. You can drink your urine and get right back off (without the negative physical effects – the drooling/sweating/blurry eyes). You can trip out HARD on Amis for many days at a stretch and never develop any kind of tolerance.

Amis have a strong SSRI component. Small doses are absolutely fantastic for combating depression and the “cabin fever” that you can get during the winter months. Amis are, IMHO, far more effective at breaking cluster/migraine cycles, and they do it at a much lower threshold. Small doses of Amis are a phenomenal tonic for perking up the mind and spirit. A mix of Amis and Reishis is a warm, almost narcotic, body high. You find your place and are comfortable in it.

Now, on the other hand, big doses of Amanitas are fucking scary, harsh and deeply unpleasant for everyone (myself included). I like them, but I’m a hell of a glutton for punishment and I get OFF on body load/pain/discomfort. Amis will screw your head HARD and totally trash your body. Big doses (8-10 grams or more) are absolutely not recommended for beginners in Ami-land for one reason: YOU WON’T LIKE IT. I personally guarantee you of that. If you start your journeys with Ami with a big dose you will never use them again. I’ve seen (and read about it) time and time again.

That said, I’ve dosed a number of experienced psychonauts with Amis over the years. I have not found a person yet who didn’t dig them in low doses. I have found only one other person who did a big dose more than once (and he’s totally skull fucked – like me). I know, in person, of only one person who voluntarily went “over the top” with them more than once, and he doesn’t do them any more because of the body load.

Amis ARE an entheogen, but they demand a VERY high price for the wisdom they have to bestow. And that wisdom is simply not something that most people (including the folks who really dig a 12 dry gram psilly trip or IV DMT) are interested in receiving. It is the wisdom of the void, the awareness that comes from experiencing true pain. It is the wisdom you get in a sweat lodge after you’ve been hanging from steel hooks through your flesh for about 20 minutes (thanks, Hippie3, for that analogy). It is the wisdom of darkness and death.

IT IS NOT WISDOM THAT WILL DO ANYTHING POSITIVE FOR YOU AS A HUMAN.

LSD and Psilocybin will show you the greatest things that humanity could dream of achieving, they will give you a glimpse of God, of the Bodishatva that each of us (with work) could become. LSD and Psilocybin will give you a glimpse of what mankind might one day achieve, if we truly work together in love and dedication to one another.

Amanita muscaria and Datura, on the other hand, will show you the flip side of that transcendent possibility. As LSD and Psilocybin will give you a glimpse of “heaven,” A. muscaria and Datura will give you a glimpse of “hell.” It might surprise you to know that more than a few cultural anthropologists give credit to the concept of Christian hell (a place of eternal torment and pain) to the Amanita experience.

To ME, these competing glimpses are the essence of the human experience. To ME, one can only begin to transcend the duality of this existence by realizing that pain and pleasure are really the same thing, simply flip sides of the same coin. From this understanding comes the realization (to ME) that good and evil, right and wrong, all the polar opposites that call for us to embrace one and deny the other, are just another way of deeper enmeshing yourself in this world of duality.

From this understanding comes the realization (to ME) that Adolph Hitler and Mother Theresa are both equally valuable to the human experience. That the murder and the saint are just different cloaks worn by the same entity and that embracing one and denying the other is just another way of denying the truth.

What that truth might be…well, that’s up to each of us to perceive and deal with.

CAVEAT EMPTOR! YOUR MIELAGE WILL VARY!
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#17 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:45 PM

From this understanding comes the realization (to ME) that Adolph Hitler and Mother Theresa are both equally valuable to the human experience. That the murder and the saint are just different cloaks worn by the same entity


that's why i consider
life
to be
theater.
it's the role that really matters,
hitler's 'value' is that he dramatically illustrates
some horrible truths.
role playing in reality,
that's life.
its' only ultimate value
is in our understanding and learning
from watching the drama as it unfolds.
until it's our own turn to
exit stage left.

#18 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:46 PM

Well.. gotta be honest, I am deeply haunted by that post BuckarooBanzai. I am a very open minded and spiritual person, but that does not seem like anything I want to undergo.

I enjoy psillies because of how connected I feel to everyone and everything around me. I have found inner-peace and revelation amongst the various other positive experiences one recieves when undergoing a psilocybin trip. In an attempt to comprehend the effects of amis (from your post) - I have come to the conclusion that it is not for me.

However the thing that I find most intriguing, is that in that documentary Sacred Weeds Fly Agaric (which is spread out in 10 minute clips located on the links in the initial post) is that the experiences that they )the 2 subjects) described were VERY similar to that of a psilly trip. Thus, my question:

Is the documentary full of shit? OR Did they take a small enough dose to get a some-what similar trip to that of psillies.

Please, take a look at the documentary and tell me what you think. Neither of the subjects explained anything negative - they both seemed to have a stereotypical psilocybin trip.

#19 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:48 PM

already told you,
they are nothing like psilocybes.
anyone who claims otherwise
is full of shit.

#20 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:53 PM

Thats very interesting and at the same time upsetting. I really thought that Sacred Weed documentary Series (which covers everything from Amis, to Henbane, to Salvia) had a good deal of credibility. I noticed that they did not eat the dried amis, but they rather made a brew out of it (i suppose it was a tea of some sort). Have you ever injested it that way / could that be a reason for the contradicting results?




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