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Fly Agaric (Amanita Muscaria)


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#21 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:59 PM

Well.. gotta be honest, I am deeply haunted by that post BuckarooBanzai. I am a very open minded and spiritual person, but that does not seem like anything I want to undergo.


That was EXACTLY the point. Small doses=a fun time, similar to psillys but still pretty fundamentally different. Large doses=a scary/spooky time, very different from psillys. Mega doses=shit I can just about guarantee you want no part of. If all you do is vomit up an organ, you should consider yourself damned lucky.

The documentary (I've seen it, by the way) is not full of shit. It's pretty straight dope, allthough they don't advise strongly against big doses of A. muscaria. THEY SHOULD. Trippers always want to try just a little more. That shit can work fine and dandy with psillys, maybe freak you a little, but no chance of inducing a psychotic break. Amis...very different stuff. VERY.

Realize that EVERYONE has an agenda when they present anything.

I can guarantee you that if you already know the psilly trip, you will find very specific qualitative differences in even small doses of Amis. Big doses will actually, IME, freak you far worse if you are already farmiliar with "psilly space" because they ARE so different.

There is very little love for humanity in "Ami space" and more than a bit of open hatred. IMHO, they are as different as night and day. As different as psychedelics and narcotics.

And dude, not to be rude, but if you genuinely believe there is such a thing as a "sterotypical psilocybin trip," I suggest you stay FAR THE FUCK AWAY from more than 4-8 grams of A. muscaria. Don't even CONSIDER eating a panther. IF you are interested, I would humbly suggest starting with 2 grams, carefully notating the differences from a psilly trip, and work your way up VERY SLOWLY to find a comfort level.

If you then choose to explore beyond your comfort level, well, you've been warned in the strongest and most personal language I can formulate...

Oh, and the only realistic way to consume Amis is to make tea. Dried Amis taste absolutely HORRIBLE.

#22 Hippie3

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:01 PM

one can neutralize a great deal of the most harsh side effects
by properly preparing the amanitas
nevertheless
that still doesn't change the fact
that they are totally different drugs.
they have no more in common
than shrooms do with cacti.
they just effect you in different ways.
it's kinda hard to explain
about as close as i can get is to say
being high on amanitas
is a bit like having a high fever,
you're more delirious than you are
anything else.

#23 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:07 PM

STRAIGHT UP.

Deliriant is the best word I have ever heard for Amanita intoxication.

Delirium is NOT something that most folks find any pleasure in. You think DXM will fuck you sideways? HA!

#24 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

And dude, not to be rude, but if you genuinely believe there is such a thing as a "sterotypical psilocybin trip," I suggest you stay FAR THE FUCK AWAY from more than 4-8 grams of A. muscaria. Don't even CONSIDER eating a panther. IF you are interested, I would humbly suggest starting with 2 grams, carefully notating the differences from a psilly trip, and work your way up VERY SLOWLY to find a comfort level.


I know there is no such thing as a stereotypical psilly trip. I have tripped approx. 8 times and every single time has been different. HOWEVER, there are notable similarities. All I was saying, was that the experience that the two subjects [in the documentary] were describing were both very psilly-esc. One claimed to be very in touch with nature, felt he understood what the birds in the trees were saying, felt like climbing a tree. The other was listening to music, felt like he could see the music eminating from the stereo. And they both claimed to see different movement in patterns and colors that normally DO NOT move.

That to me seemed like something VERY feasible to experience in a psilly trip. And at the same time VERY different from the experience you have outlined whilst on Amis.

Hope I cleared that up.

#25 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:17 PM

Dude, in that sense, ALL psychedelics (especially at lower doses) are pretty damned similar. But they are also all pretty damned different. LSD and Cubies both make stuff brighter and crawly, but you would NEVER mistake one for the other, after you had experienced both.

But you didn't ask about similarities, you asked about differences.

I word my opinions on Amis very strongly because I freakin' LOVE them...but I know precious few others who feel the same way. I would MUCH prefer to see you do a little too many psillys and freak moderately than do a little too many Amis and drop psychedelics (and prehaps drugs in general) all together.

The essential nature of the point is that Amis and Psillys (other than both being mushrooms) are in completely different categories of drugs. Fuck with 'em if you want, but you probably won't do it more than once.

#26 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:24 PM

Ok, that adds a little clarity to the topic. It seemed like for a while there we had contradicting elements. However, I may be completely wrong in saying this but, [aside from my very first encounter with psilies] they have all been pleasant and I feel very comfortable with them now. To the point where I have convinced myself (as long as i stick with 8ths) that I will not have a bad trip. From reading experiences and materials from other sources, I've gathered that bad trips mainly are a result of the experience being alien to the user and the user not knowing how to react to the changes taking place.

Is it safe to assume that if I stick to a dosage which I am comfortable, I can continue to expect only positive experiences? Or do "bad trips" spontaneously erupt regardless how experienced / comfortable you are with mushrooms?

#27 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:38 PM

Personally, I've always said there are no such things as bad trips, only bad trippers. This is the primary reason I have no further real interest in LSD. I've gotten what I could/should out of it and have subsequently become a "bad tripper" with LSD. I rush past the fun stuff and dig too deep too quick with tools sharpened to a razor edge by a large number of previous experiences. The psychedelic experience does not like to be rushed.

Set and setting are so damned key to the qualitative experience. Three weekends in a row, the exact same compound can give you such vastly different results, based on nothing more than changes in set/setting. Changing compounds and expecting similar results is at best a recipe for a suprise, at worst, it is a recipe for a *nasty* suprise.

Suprises ABOUND in the land of Ami. They are perhaps the most set/setting dependant psychedelic I have experienced. And no matter how good your preparations, the physical discomforts associated can quickly turn the best pre-emptive work to total shit.

And, by the way, "positive experiences" are entirely in the mind of the beholder, as you move AWAY from the experience. You'll perhaps have noted that even people who have experienced multiple "bad trips" keep coming back for more. Sometimes the very "worst" trips can teach you the most. It's all in how you take it and what you take away from it.

Speaking from a purely spiritual perspective, what would you "learn" more from: a giggly fun time with your friends or confronting horrific personal demons?

It's all in how you take it and what you take away from it.

#28 ShadowBoom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:47 PM

Speaking from a purely spiritual perspective, what would you "learn" more from: a giggly fun time with your friends or confronting horrific personal demons?

It's all in how you take it and what you take away from it.


I can totally understand what your saying, and that further backsup my belief that psychoactives are definetly not for everyone.

Obviously one would get more out of confronting personal demons - if thats what they want to do / are willing to. If somone rather hide from their demons then such a confrontation could be rather traumatic. And as far as the "giggly fun time with friends" goes: I'm 19 years old - those moments have their place, but I MUCH rather have a fulfilling, learning, enriching experience. I find that MJ tends to lie in the relm of "giggly" where-as mushrooms and other similar drugs tend to be more spiritual and learning IMO. I think this is the reason why I have turned away from MJ and have turned my focus to other things which I consider much more of an enriching and enlightening experience.

#29 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 02:39 AM

ShadowBoom: Firstly, let me apologize for the “giggly fun time with friends” comment. It was provocative and counterproductive to this exchange. Please realize it was not directed specifically at you, though it most certainly reads that way in retrospect. I’m a hotheaded guy and I type/post sometimes too quickly. Again, for any personal slight, my apologies. Such was not my intent.


I can totally understand what your saying, and that further backs up my belief that psychoactives are definetly not for everyone.


BINGO, MY BROTHER!

Well, to some extent. Buckaroo must always qualify…he does so love to hear himself type. Rant begins here…

I think that given good conditions, trusted friends and carefully dosed compounds of known quality, just about anybody can have a damned fine time, and/or learn a lot about themselves, with psychedelics.

I do NOT think that everyone is suited to delving deeply into their own concepts and perceptions of reality, however. Such questions (and, more specifically, the quest for answers that certain questions inevitably breed) just are not suited for most people.

Some would like to blame this on the government, or the TV, or religion, or the WHATEVER of our culture. I think that’s wrong, though. I think it’s total bullshit. The nature of most monkeys is not to seek a personal understanding of the infinite. We just don’t seem to be wired that way. At least not en masse.

There have been hundreds of organized societies on this planet before ours. Many of them left pretty detailed archeological documentation about the composition of their people. A number of the big ones left friggin’ censuses. There have always, always, ALWAYS been very few seekers. The “straights” have always outnumbered the shaman. Usually, they have vastly outnumbered them.

The shaman have always been outcasts, to one extent or another. Sometimes revered, sometimes reviled…but always separate, by action, ideas and appearance, from the “norm.”

In most aboriginal and native cultures, the shaman will wear very different clothing, sometimes makeup…they live separately…practice rituals perceived as arcane, sometimes illegal/immoral…they are simply and demonstrably different from the societal whole. They always have been and always will be oddballs that run counter to their culture.

The “counter culture” is far older than the hippies. Far older than the beats. Far older than the renaissance artisans or the first followers of Buddah. Older than dirt, you might say.

The counter culture, IMHO, stared with the first monkey that dipped its hand in the blood of its kill and represented a silhouette of that kill on a cave wall, shocking its compatriots and kin with a “new” act. It started with that first individual who differentiated itself through nothing more than doing (and, later, enjoying doing well) something outside the “normal” experience of its peers.

It, the counter culture, then grew up around that “freak.” It was composed, initially, of those monkeys that looked up from their meal and saw something interesting in those blood streaks on the wall. Something that appealed to them, though they had no clue why. Something different that a few of them wanted to experience for themselves.

It wasn’t long after that first silhouette appeared on the cave’s wall that another monkey copied the technique and drew something different. It wasn't long after those first few accidental trips that most of the monkeys quit eating mushrooms...and a couple started seeking them out.

There has always been, and will always be, a subset of society that follows, supports, respects and seeks to be like the artist, the musician, the shaman, the mystic. They are so intrigued by the vision of the “oddball” that they seek to experience it for themselves.

But this is like trying to share an epiphany. Conception of the infinite is, by its very nature, an utterly personal experience. As are each of us different beings, our experiences and perceptions and understanding are different. We are like the three blind men describing an elephant. We describe the same greater whole, but each of us experiences it in a vastly different way.

Truth is universal, but it is also utterly different for each of us. This is, to me, part of the amazingly interesting nature of existence, here within time. This is what makes me understand why the Buddha is always represented with that same sly grin that the Dali Lama always seems to wear. That same sly grin that makes the Mona Lisa so damned beautiful.

All of us are God. Each just a tiny fragment, yet also a perfect representation of the whole. We aren’t the trinity. We are the infinity.

Psychedelics can put us in *close* touch with an awareness of that utter and perfect connection with the infinite. I think this is part of the damned near universal appeal of psychedelics to the counter culture. I think this is also a big part of why most folks shouldn’t dabble in large doses of psychedelics.

The thing is, though, religion can put you in touch with that same awareness. More than one of us has found infinity in the rituals of the Catholic Church. Some have found it in mathematics. Or poetry. Or music. Or a solid day of physical labor.

Or a walk in the woods with a loved one on a beautiful spring morning.

Some have no interest in finding it, and that’s cool too, because that’s a big part of it. The counter culture wouldn’t be counter if it followed the mainstream. Too many people trouncing through the woods on that beautiful spring morning would fuck it all up. Besides, somebody needs to be working at the Waffle House. A long springtime walk in the woods can breed a healthy appetite and I hate cooking.

Psychedelics, and drugs in general, can be a shortcut to Heaven or Hell. No strong adulterant is for everyone, except maybe oxygen and love. And Prozac, of course. I like my Eli Lilly shares to stay profitable.

Psychedelics can be a route to everything…or nothing…or both…a shortcut to grasping the paradox of duality.

I know that grasping that paradox is what I have sought after many, many years of “giggly fun times with friends.” I was only looking for giggles, or just a smokin’ good buzz, for a damned LONG time. I’m looking for a little bit more, now. A lot more, actually.

But in a totally cool way, “seeking God” with big doses makes laughing my ass off at Carlos Mencia with couple of good friends on small doses ever so much sweeter. Hell, it makes every aspect of life sweeter to realize just how much more there is than what my little eyes can see and my little monkey brain can glimpse (even on it’s very best day).

It makes me feel glad to be and I dig the fuck out of that.

There is great value in “giggly fun times with friends.” There is great value in “confronting horrific personal demons.” There is great value in just looking around and realizing just how fucking sweet it is just to draw one breath…and then another.

There are many different drugs, from MJ to A. muscaria to DMT, that have helped me bring that realization to a semi conscious reality and I dearly love them all for it. And, of course, I do love that most kick ass architect who designed my nervous system and then peppered my environment with so many things to alter it.

You know the architect. Some call him God. Some call him Allah. Some call him money. I call him You. And Me. And, of course, this sweet bong I’m about to hit…

From a Grateful Dead show on the panhandle to a Ronald Reagan speech at a Republican convention…man, it’s just a damned cool assed thing, this funky time trip through “reality.” So many amazing moments, so much amazing diversity…and each of them so intimately connected to each other…to me…to you…to some guy named Bob in San Francisco…to some fossilized microbe on Pluto.

Personally, I’m mostly looking to float through the time stream, trying to figure out how to exercise the free will that will bring about my inevitable destiny. To grasp it all with the clear eye of a child and just laugh my ass off until I cry. And to trip BALLS every so often and forget it all only to sink back in and learn it yet again. Good stuff, this life. It’s why I keep coming back…

“I don’t know if we each have a destiny, or if we’re all just floating around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it’s both. Maybe both is happening at the same time.”
-Forrest Gump

By the way, this is the kind of psychotic shit you’ll end up going over and over and over again in your head if you fuck around seriously with psychedelics. Nature of the beast, as it were. Much more echoey, harsh and noxious things will end up in your head if you fuck seriously with the “darker” psychedelics (A. muscaria, in large doses, is one of those darker things).

This is why psychedelics aren’t for everyone. This is why some people freak flat the fuck out. This is one of the reasons why I do so dearly love them. I’m a *HUGE* fan of madness and chaos. And, of course, giggly fun times with friends!!!

“I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.”
-Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

Thanks very much for kicking me off on this twisted tangent, ShadowBoom. I started this pissed at yet another mischaracterization of my friend Ami and am now just grinnin’ my ass off and pinwheeling madly inside my head.

Time for a bong rip, brother. Take care of yourself.

Banzai out…

#30 mycobri

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 09:35 AM

The dvd offered in the book contest up top of the home page, "secrets of Soma" makes for very interesting viewing.
hawk and venus (soma shamans) chomp down somas by the pound. there are some very large and very nice looking amanitas in that video.:)

#31 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 10:07 AM

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1148742419

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#32 ShadowBoom

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 04:04 PM

That was a very thought provoking and insightful post Buckaroo.. I actually think I'll read it over one more time so it can thoroughly sink in. And I thank you for clearing up my misconception of Amis.

In repsonse to your post, I've always found myself nested deeply within the counter-culture. I've always saught to find friendship in the oddest of odd people.. because they always are the most interesting! I've also always beared the strong, haunting, feeling that I am a part of something huge.. and when I look up at the heavens on a clear spring night.. the questions that flood my mind will forever plague me. Psychedelics have really helped me to fill the obvious void and detachment I have always felt.

When nearly everyone around me seems to think and believe a certain way.. I cannot help but go against it, not for the sake of rebellion but simply because I am and always will be a part of the counter-culture. I am just happy to have found a few friends (whom are my closest) who I can share me deepest, darkest thoughts and questions and can actually get an informative, thoughtful response from them without passing any biased judgements on me what-so-ever because they too seek the unknown. I think one of my biggest quests is finding a member of the opposite sex who shares the same views and openmindedness that I do. That is the one thing that has been missing out of all of my serious relationships, and I would gladly give up .. ok well give up SOME of their phisycal beauty for such an inner conciousness. (Here comes my ego: Cmon.. Guys have their needs)... and up up.. here it comes again.. Girls, they just don't understand.

And to all the females on this site whom actually "GET IT", I love you all and please spread the insight.

#33 max

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 04:06 PM

I think the only thing in common between the two types of trips is that they are both mind-altering. They contain different chemicals which illicit different responses from the body. There is prolly a few people who have died from them, likely weak or already sick people or possibly allergic reaction like many have to peanuts or bee stings. Many have died drinking booze too but that won't stop any of us from having a beer will it? More people get killed every year by lightning strikes but I'll still walk to the store in a storm. To point out that some website *says* 10 people died is like trying to promote paranoia. 10 people means the odds are astronomical. Many, many, many more people won a million dollars last year. Anyone feeling that lucky...or that unlucky?

#34 Lazlo

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 04:18 PM

I've seen documentation where people have died on the mushroom but, there's to many other variables that were involved as well. For instance; one documented death where toxicity came back showing the individual had consumed this specimen, also was found frozen damn near to the core on the bank of a pond. Know what I mean?

#35 ShadowBoom

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 04:54 PM

captainmax makes a good point. But whether the 10 people a year bit is true or false, its purpose is just precautionary - don't be stupid about it.

#36 Hippie3

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 07:12 AM

seen documentation where people have died on the mushroom


cite it then, plz.
where/when did this occur ?
hospital/doctor of record ?
etc.

#37 reverend trips

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 07:24 AM

10 people means the odds are astronomical. Many, many, many more people won a million dollars last year. Anyone feeling that lucky...or that unlucky?

I'm no expert on the subject but I don't think that is a good analogy.
How many millions of people have played lotteries last year?
How many millions of people have dosed Amanita Muscaria last year?

#38 Carter

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 08:07 AM

Wow, one of my favorite subjects.This subject on Amanita will keep me going for a few days now that's in my head.Time to start breaking out the notes soon.Amanita Muscaria is one of my favorite mushrooms not because I think they are pretty but to have dreams about them and waking up the next day to see them in my backyard is a sign telling me to query into the Amanita Muscaria that grows under a regular shortleaf pine.

#39 Lazlo

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 10:12 AM

The case i'm talking about was in a book from the library. I believe the man was a resident in Europe. I've seen other cases on the web but, who knows what to believe in links or books for that matter. :lol:

#40 Lazlo

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 10:25 AM

Here's a 2004 report from the North American Mycological Association Toxicology Committee. There's no reports of deaths from the Amanita Muscaria here, just people getting violently ill. Deaths resulting from other mushrooms are listed in the link. Correct me if i'm wrong but, from 97-04 there's not 1 documented death from the Amanita Muscaria in these reports. I'd say these reports are very accurate.

http://www.sph.umich...cr/2004Case.htm




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