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Slow Growth?


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#21 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 03:07 AM

I'm at a loss.

me too :|
wait for the pros on this one, sudont.

Well, I was wondering if maybe the thing to do would be to pick these slow pokes, and hope the myc would refocus it's efforts. I'm doing everything the same way I've done it in the past (with wildly successful results), so I'm wondering if this "Hawaiian" strain is the issue.

highly unlikely. there is a reason why growth is stunted post primordia.
dont freak! and wait for more replies.
im sure someone else has had the same problem in the past and will chime in to help
at least someone who has grown HAWs, to reassure you of my notion.

#22 encapsulated

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 03:25 AM

I have grown Hawaiins and they gave me no troble in fact they are the best mushrooms i have ever had no abhorts at all in my case i would recommend to quit using peroxide in the water you use for the DEC that stunts mycelia and that could be the problem either that ro like cap said just pick dunk and try for another flush and hope it turns out better:)

#23 Hippie3

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 07:16 AM

My rehydration water is 10% peroxide. That is, 0.3% H2O2.



bad idea.
peroxide stuns mycellia
sets back growth.

one should only use peroxide/bleach, etc.
WHEN IT IS NEEDED,
not all the time like that.

further
that's still TWICE as strong as needed
even for peroxide misting,
a 20:1 mix of water to 3% peroxide
is the recommended standard for
use on mycellia.

#24 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:04 AM

h3>>
i have used h2o2 post birthing,pre pinning to hydrate my DEC
in the same ratio as sudont, probably a bit less.
just a hearty splash into a measuring cup and never measured 'cept by 'eye'
all in all i have a heavy peroxide hand)
and never had any issues, in fact, i almost always did it,
but i was always worried that birthing at 100% colo visually would increase contams
so i made it a point to always get it done that way.
in hindsight it was a bad idea. thanks for showing me the light hippie 3 :)

sudon't>>
ive never used anything but boiled or PC'd water for RE-hydration, or, post pinning.
sorry i couldnt be of more help, hope they take off for ya, just use clean water and you'll be fine
tip: ive even used spring water bottles (the miniature ones,half pint cheap poly jugs)
when i had a 'guerilla' gig goin on years ago.
just poke with a new syringe, draw, replace with cover, shoot as needed.
factoid:
vigourous, fully colonized cakes are contam resistant, for the most part

have a great weekend

Ps- just realized i hijacked this mofo!....:dead: sorry

#25 sudont

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 01:29 PM

I guess I'll try eliminating the H2O2 to see what happens. Again, I've used it previously with no problems, and it's recommended as a misting solution by Nicholas & Ogamé (Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook, pp. 125, 126), as well as by Wayne. It's not retarding pinning at all, yet the mushies do not mature. *sigh*
What about rust? I thought I saw a post somewhere where this was mentioned as a problem. I have them DECed in the jar lids, so it's concievable that rust might form. Is rust, iron oxide, a problem for mushies?
Has anyone ever experienced this kind of slow growth? What was the problem, if you were able to solve it?
Thanks again for all of your help!

#26 spacecake

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 02:22 PM

Better use plastic lids or foil for a D.E.C. ...but I have no idea if it will help,it's cleaner tho !

#27 sudont

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Posted 03 June 2006 - 08:47 PM

Today, ten or eleven days after pin set, it was obvious things were going nowhere for the original mushies, so I thought it best to pick these, let the newest pins have their chance, and see if the cakes would recover. You can see some pix below. Few look appetizing. Many were kinda flat, and would be bent below the head, as if they couldn't bear the weight of the head. Most were soft and many seemed water-logged. The heads came apart quite easily on some, and would release a drop of water if touched. All bruised quite easily. Many had a sort of a white coating, mostly visible on the heads. Only a few looked normal, and I placed these at the top-left of the image. I took one of the "normal" ones and removed the veil. The gills are very light in color, sort of a beige. Not sure if this is because it was picked before it began producing spores, or if this another symptom. Never had a look at one this early.
I also included a pic of one of the cakes before the mushies were picked. You can see huge hyphal knots on the sides.
There's some kind of problem here, obviously, and it ain't a lack of humidity. Do any of you old hands have an idea? BTW, I should mention that the cakes are pinning again, and all appear to be fine at this point. But, so were the first ones...

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#28 spacecake

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 03:52 AM

Well,if you think (your prob. right..) everything is in order,..then it must be the syringe/spores you used !
Maybe the spores where very old or something like that !

If I where you..I throwed away the cakes ,and start with a fresh syringe and maybe a different strain,and make new ones !

#29 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 04:22 AM

with all due respect, i am going to gave to disagree.
i wouldnt go as far as to throw away these cakes.
i would bleach dip/dunk and return to a bleach bombed fruting environment.
you may have had some sort of bacteria. maybe not.
one of the tell tale signs of verticillium is a nodding of the cap (at maturity,though:confused:)
they look perfectly safe to eat, however. you can clean them as you would any mushroom from the grocery store. anything squirting juice at ya may be a candidate for the bin.
use sterile water to bring yer vermiculite casing material to field capacity and only use the h2o2 to mist the walls of the terrarium, maybe that was the problem.
maybe spacecake is right, just adding my 2 cents,for what theyre worth :special:
good luck
edit:lookin again id imagine genetics may have some role here.
are all of the cakes doing this, or is it just the one? multispore inoc.? take care

#30 sudont

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 01:15 AM

edit:lookin again id imagine genetics may have some role here.
are all of the cakes doing this, or is it just the one? multispore inoc.? take care


Thanks for your input! It's interesting that the spores are called into question. I don't want to impugn the supplier, particularly unfairly, but I've had problems of one sort or another with many of the syringes I recently purchased from this, new to me, supplier. This included an entire set of cakes contammed, and a strain that refused to pin, whether cased or as cakes. Although suspicious, I reasoned that the supplier had been around awhile, and was a sponsor here, and on other sites, so the problems were most likely my fault. Now I'm not so sure...
To answer your questions...
Yes, it was a multi-spore inoc., and all of the cakes were affected. But the jars colonized so swiftly, and the myc looked so healthy and rhizo, that I'm surprised I had trouble fruiting them.
Right now, they're pinning like a sonovabitch, so I'll wait and see if the cakes recover. If it doesn't go well, I may try dunking and re-casing. I've also eliminated peroxide from their diet, although I doubt that was the issue, but I hope we see some improvement soon! Fingers crossed <—

#31 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 02:45 AM

ahhh let me reiterate...
by genetics what i meant was sub-strain.
since every cake had the problem, this doesnt seem to be the case.
degraded genetics? doubt thats what you are seeing.
im no expert tho :) wait for more/better replies. ~BUMP

#32 Hippie3

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 08:21 AM

the spores are called into question. I don't want to impugn the supplier, particularly unfairly, but I've had problems of one sort or another with many of the syringes I recently purchased from this, new to me, supplier. This included an entire set of cakes contammed, and a strain that refused to pin, whether cased or as cakes. Although suspicious


that's just not a possibility.
spore dealers do not create spores,
mushrooms do.
even a shady vendor's spores are still good,
assuming they are not tainted with contams.

your problem is fairly obvious
and you already know what it is-

Most were soft and many seemed water-logged. The heads came apart quite easily on some, and would release a drop of water if touched


you have over-done the misting/watering
and they are saturated to the point of harm.
need to back off and let the cake breathe and dry some.
but hey
don't believe me,
what the hell do i know...
:reb:

#33 sudont

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 11:49 AM

that's just not a possibility.
spore dealers do not create spores,
mushrooms do.
even a shady vendor's spores are still good,
assuming they are not tainted with contams.

Of course, but I did have a syringe that was almost certainly contammed. Also, spores and spore prints age.

your problem is fairly obvious
and you already know what it is-
you have over-done the misting/watering
and they are saturated to the point of harm.
need to back off and let the cake breathe and dry some.

Well, maybe it is obvious, in retrospect, but having been told my humidity was too low, I began to worry the casings would dry. Perhaps I over-compensated...

but hey
don't believe me,
what the hell do i know...
:reb:

Don't feel that your advice is not appreciated - it is. If I don't thank everyone personally, I do try to thank everyone at once, when I post. And since I get so much advice, some of it contradictory, I have to sort through it all and try to figure out what applies to my situation. If I question something I've read here, it's not because I don't believe it, but rather that I need to clarify some point about it, in my own head. It's not always easy to figure things out between the various web sites and books. Many people have been successful in this endeavor, but everyone does things a little differently. This can be a little confusing sometimes. Hope you understand...

#34 Hippie3

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 09:05 AM

you should
consider the source
when weighing conflicting advice.
not all opinions are equal.

#35 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 09:19 AM

ive not found a more complete reference,
for growing our friendly fungus, than 'topia.
:heart: accurate. from cubensis to Claviceps
the information is here, if ya dig deep 'nuff....

#36 morganfreeman

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 09:23 AM

Going back to a post from way earlier in the thread... Just wanted to say that was interesting that your cigar hygrometer read 93% when it was covered in wetness. It should have read 100%. As a cigar smoker, I felt I should tell you... There is a calibration screw on the back of the hygrometer. I would suggest you get a wet towel, put the hygrometer in the towel, give it about ten minutes and then look at it. If it says anything less than 100% (and I'm guessing it will), move the screw- to move the hand to 100%. Now, you're calibrated.

Of course, I would never recommend using one of these for growing purposes anyway. Just thought I would mention it in case you are storing cigars.

#37 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 09:50 AM

speaking of cigars...

http://mycotopia.net...=1&d=1150123627
here's a pic i found of the last time i went to the cigar shop:amazed:saw hippie there.with two friends:lol:

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#38 sandman

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 02:19 PM

:hitit:

#39 sudont

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:11 PM

you should
consider the source
when weighing conflicting advice.
not all opinions are equal.


Naturally, I agree. In fact, the reason I mentioned my sources was in the hopes of hearing comments on those authors and their methods. I still wouldn't mind hearing what people have to say...
Also, what do you do when the "experts" disagree? At this stage of my knowledge, I can only make guesses. And then you have the problem of "diagnosis by forum". Posters have to rely on my descriptive powers, filtered through my own ignorance, to try to figure out what my problem may be. It might not always work ;)

#40 sudont

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:41 PM

Going back to a post from way earlier in the thread... Just wanted to say that was interesting that your cigar hygrometer read 93% when it was covered in wetness. It should have read 100%. As a cigar smoker, I felt I should tell you... There is a calibration screw on the back of the hygrometer. I would suggest you get a wet towel, put the hygrometer in the towel, give it about ten minutes and then look at it. If it says anything less than 100% (and I'm guessing it will), move the screw- to move the hand to 100%. Now, you're calibrated.
Of course, I would never recommend using one of these for growing purposes anyway. Just thought I would mention it in case you are storing cigars.


I am storing cigars, of course, and I have calibrated that hygrometer via the "wet salt" method. I know that a hygrometer should read 100% if wrapped in a wet towel. But here's what I think the problem is: once a hygrometer becomes water-logged, it ceases working. I've verified this by talking to the folks at Fungi Perfecti, and I know from experience that once I have a lot of condensation going on, any hygrometer I've tried fails. And it seems I can't get any kind of serious RH without condensation. I could really use some clues in the area of RH, how it works, it's relationship to temperature, and so on. I do so much better when I understand how something works! If anyone could give me the lowdown on this topic, or could pass me some links, I'd be very grateful.
I'd also be interested in hearing how others achieve high levels of humidity, whether they use hygrometers, and if condensation is a problem for them, or how they've solved RH problems. I'm running a Cool Mist with two hoses (7/8" outside dia. x 24" length) to two 66 qt. Rubbermaids, with perlite, and still don't get the RH I need.




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