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Q&A MegaThread: When to Harvest/ caps open or closed


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#81 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:06 AM

O crap.

I didn't find anything on alkaloid content at different growth stages yet, but I found this little nugget to confuse us more.


http://www.dl.begell...5939e457df.html

Enhancement of Indole Alkaloids Produced by Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer (Agaricomycetideae) in Controlled Harvesting Light Conditions
Hasan Rafati
Department of Phytochemistry, Medicinal Plants and Drugs Research Institute, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
Hossein Riahi
Bioscience Faculty, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
Ali Mohammadi
Department of Biology, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
ABSTRACT
Indole alkaloids of Psilocybe cubensis have been reported to be the potential candidates for drug discovery in central nervous system (CNS) disorders. In this research, the effect of the harvesting light on increasing the active alkaloids of P. cubensis was investigated. Three different lighting conditions, that is, dim daylight, indirect daylight, and darkness were used to harvest the mushrooms. A simple one-step extraction method involving the homogenization of the dried fruit bodies of fungi in chloroform was used. The psilocin content of the mushrooms was analyzed by derivatization with N-methyl-N-(trimethylsilyl) trifluoroacetamide (MSTFA), followed by the GC-MS technique. This investigation showed that the psilocin content of the mushrooms was highly dependent on the lighting conditions. Variations could amount to 100-fold increases in the samples harvested in the dark condition, compared to the samples harvested in the light conditions. Therefore, preventing natural light in the harvesting chamber could be considered to have a considerable effect on the content of the psychotropic component of P. cubensis and, hence, the psycho activity of the mushroom.


Edited by TurkeyRanch, 16 July 2014 - 11:09 AM.

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#82 Cue

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:21 AM

I have heard people swear that the blue LEDs make there shrooms stronger.

I didn't notice any increase in potency when I tried using LED arrays. But then, I do get lots of natural light through a window that faces west (the afternoon sun).



#83 mattyfresh

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:18 PM

For one thing, when a mushroom breaks it's veil, it basically stops growing, aside from the cap becoming more planar (flat). It may get a bit bigger, but not more than ten percent or less from my estimate. It certainly will not double in size. This still only matters IF alkaloid production stops when the veil breaks.


You obviously haven't been doing much searching in the vaults as this thread from hippie shows how mushrooms can double after the veil breaks so yes the shrooms can get way bigger then 20% lmao

https://mycotopia.ne...ter-veil-rips-?

Every other person here is saying they are more potent before veil rips. Why is that hard to believe? Lol

Edited by mattyfresh, 16 July 2014 - 12:27 PM.


#84 Cue

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

images.jpeg



#85 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:46 PM

The links are broken, they are off in the vault and i can't pull any of them up. In an arguing statement the defense wouldnt keep animals from eating the "fruit" bodys but detour any predator from possible damaging mycelium networks to further growth and yes also spread spores.
If production of psilocybin does stop when the veil breaks and your mushroom ways 10 gs wet when you pick it. If you would leave it to grow say another 10gs after the veil rips its potency by weight would be 50%.
Once the veil rips the Mushroom doesn't focus on creation but cell expansion.
Ive fed people straight aborts while i fed others bigger more grown. Everyone tripped but my friend on aborts was a step up for sure.
I feel if you let them grow a little past that point its not bad even growing all the way isnt bad but ive had more even trips with harvesting as the veil rips then with the fullgrown.

For one thing, when a mushroom breaks it's veil, it basically stops growing, aside from the cap becoming more planar (flat). It may get a bit bigger, but not more than ten percent or less from my estimate. It certainly will not double in size. This still only matters IF alkaloid production stops when the veil breaks.

You obviously haven't been doing much searching in the vaults as this thread from hippie shows how mushrooms can double after the veil breaks so yes the shrooms can get way bigger then 20% lmao https://mycotopia.ne...ter-veil-rips-?
Every other person here is saying they are more potent before veil rips. Why is that hard to believe? Lol

Trust me, I have read the vaults, for many many years. Maybe if you read more, you'll probably see some of my posts back there, possibly even having this exact same discussion! I am not trying to be oppositional. Looking for facts, not what hip said ten years ago. Communities like this are subject to trends, superstitions, and fads. Some are based in fact, others not. As much as I miss him, we can't always take everything hip says as gospel, he was often wrong as I recall, as people are prone to being.

My personal experience shows me that I can tell no difference in a fruit that has spored out and is as long as my arm, and one picked with veil intact. It that is just my experience, but I have been at this game since the Clinton years, and I feel comfortable saying that is the case for me. I also know from experience that cubes will not usually grow THAT much after the veil breaks. Maybe some strains more than others, and maybe I have never worked with those strains. I think over the years I have done enough tubs to know what my average personal experience has been.

Other people might have different experiences, and they are just as valid. None of us really know the answer to these questions right now, not you, or me. This is why I am questioning. Please don't take offense personally.

Maybe somebody that is better at google scholar can look, I can't seem to think of the right keywords to use.
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#86 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:10 PM

I have heard people swear that the blue LEDs make there shrooms stronger.
I didn't notice any increase in potency when I tried using LED arrays. But then, I do get lots of natural light through a window that faces west (the afternoon sun).


The only time I have ever been able to see a significant difference in potency was using tryptamine containing phalaris grass as a substrate. But, that is also just another subjective non-scientific thread on the internet. I believe it though.


https://mycotopia.ne...dinacea-update/

Original thread

https://mycotopia.ne...raw-experiment/
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#87 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

The links are broken, they are off in the vault and i can't pull any of them up. In an arguing statement the defense wouldnt keep animals from eating the "fruit" bodys but detour any predator from possible damaging mycelium networks to further growth and yes also spread spores.

If production of psilocybin does stop when the veil breaks and your mushroom ways 10 gs wet when you pick it. If you would leave it to grow say another 10gs after the veil rips its potency by weight would be 50%.

Once the veil rips the Mushroom doesn't focus on creation but cell expansion.

Ive fed people straight aborts while i fed others bigger more grown. Everyone tripped but my friend on aborts was a step up for sure.

I feel if you let them grow a little past that point its not bad even growing all the way isnt bad but ive had more even trips with harvesting as the veil rips then with the fullgrown.


alkaloid production stops at approximately 20% of fruit maturity. beyond that is cell expansion via water intake. the easiest way to increase potency before that is to stress the mushroom.
food source can make difference. millet has been proven to increase desired compounds in certain cordyceps species. I only assume the same would be true for actives.

Edited by the_chosen_one, 16 July 2014 - 02:38 PM.

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#88 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

yellow light has been proven to increase yields in oyster mushroom cultivation.

#89 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:51 PM

here's data regarding blue led..
wsmbmp.org/proceedings/7th%20international%20conference/2/P7.pdf

Edited by the_chosen_one, 16 July 2014 - 03:03 PM.


#90 Cue

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

here's data regarding blue led..
wsmbmp.org/proceedings/7th% 20international%20conference/2/P7.pdf

Bad Request (Invalid URL)

#91 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

sorry. . stupid phone paste. try now.

#92 warriorsoul

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

The effects of light, and more importantly certain wavelengths on fruitbodies, can vary considerably from species to species.


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#93 Pilzkopf

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:00 PM

So, uh....the ideal time for maximum potency would be at 20% of maturity. Basically, before a veil is part of the equation. Cool story.



#94 Microbe

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:35 PM

O crap.

I didn't find anything on alkaloid content at different growth stages yet, but I found this little nugget to confuse us more.


http://www.dl.begell...5939e457df.html

Enhancement of Indole Alkaloids Produced by Psilocybe cubensis (Earle) Singer (Agaricomycetideae) in Controlled Harvesting Light Conditions
Hasan Rafati
Department of Phytochemistry, Medicinal Plants and Drugs Research Institute, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
Hossein Riahi
Bioscience Faculty, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
Ali Mohammadi
Department of Biology, Shahid Beheshti University, Evin, Tehran, Iran
ABSTRACT
Indole alkaloids of Psilocybe cubensis have been reported to be the potential candidates for drug discovery in central nervous system (CNS) disorders. In this research, the effect of the harvesting light on increasing the active alkaloids of P. cubensis was investigated. Three different lighting conditions, that is, dim daylight, indirect daylight, and darkness were used to harvest the mushrooms. A simple one-step extraction method involving the homogenization of the dried fruit bodies of fungi in chloroform was used. The psilocin content of the mushrooms was analyzed by derivatization with N-methyl-N-(trimethylsilyl) trifluoroacetamide (MSTFA), followed by the GC-MS technique. This investigation showed that the psilocin content of the mushrooms was highly dependent on the lighting conditions. Variations could amount to 100-fold increases in the samples harvested in the dark condition, compared to the samples harvested in the light conditions. Therefore, preventing natural light in the harvesting chamber could be considered to have a considerable effect on the content of the psychotropic component of P. cubensis and, hence, the psycho activity of the mushroom.


I'm going dark. Getting my night vision goggles out! That is interesting and will give it try. Just expose to light until pinning has started then total darkness up through harvesting.

I believe light is a pinning trigger and helps develop fruit bodies. I am speculating as many of my posts, our posts are, but I would think that mushrooms that have very minimal exposure to light would produce smaller fruits which would support that smaller fruits are more potent. :) Now 100 fold is ridiculous and how scary would that be to eat a few grams of that thinking your about to blast off on a level 5 and realize your off the charts. I would try at least once ;)

#95 mattyfresh

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

Trust me, I have read the vaults, for many many years. Maybe if you read more, you'll probably see some of my posts back there, possibly even having this exact same discussion! I am not trying to be oppositional. Looking for facts, not what hip said ten years ago. Communities like this are subject to trends, superstitions, and fads. Some are based in fact, others not. As much as I miss him, we can't always take everything hip says as gospel, he was often wrong as I recall, as people are prone to being.

My personal experience shows me that I can tell no difference in a fruit that has spored out and is as long as my arm, and one picked with veil intact. It that is just my experience, but I have been at this game since the Clinton years, and I feel comfortable saying that is the case for me. I also know from experience that cubes will not usually grow THAT much after the veil breaks. Maybe some strains more than others, and maybe I have never worked with those strains. I think over the years I have done enough tubs to know what my average personal experience has been.

Other people might have different experiences, and they are just as valid. None of us really know the answer to these questions right now, not you, or me. This is why I am questioning. Please don't take offense personally.

Maybe somebody that is better at google scholar can look, I can't seem to think of the right keywords to use.


Im in no way upset lol, and ive read through basically all of the vaults for years also. I also dont take what hippie said as biblical or anything lmao i used that thread as an example of the possible growth after the veil tears and also for the fact it took me 5 secs to find it. Your right some strains do push out bigger fruits like b+ and a lot of people with assumptions are wrong,

I guess the majority of us are just on a bandwagon lol.
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#96 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:15 PM

The links are broken, they are off in the vault and i can't pull any of them up. In an arguing statement the defense wouldnt keep animals from eating the "fruit" bodys but detour any predator from possible damaging mycelium networks to further growth and yes also spread spores.
If production of psilocybin does stop when the veil breaks and your mushroom ways 10 gs wet when you pick it. If you would leave it to grow say another 10gs after the veil rips its potency by weight would be 50%.
Once the veil rips the Mushroom doesn't focus on creation but cell expansion.
Ive fed people straight aborts while i fed others bigger more grown. Everyone tripped but my friend on aborts was a step up for sure.
I feel if you let them grow a little past that point its not bad even growing all the way isnt bad but ive had more even trips with harvesting as the veil rips then with the fullgrown.


alkaloid production stops at approximately 20% of fruit maturity. beyond that is cell expansion via water intake. the easiest way to increase potency before that is to stress the mushroom.
food source can make difference. millet has been proven to increase desired compounds in certain cordyceps species. I only assume the same would be true for actives.

Interesting. Where did you get that 20% tidbit taco?

#97 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:43 PM

read in a college paper. the sources were legit tho.
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#98 CheezBurgerDeluxe

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 06:10 PM

If you are picking them for maximum potency and minimal energy and water input then pick them as pins.

 

If you are picking them to fill bags, pick them before their veil breaks.  They stay together better, their is no spore mess, and they have better curb appeal (if you know what I mean).

So it's about time to harvest when the outer edge of the cap starts to curl upward?



#99 the_chosen_one

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:05 PM

honestly, I think we are only talking a few milligrams difference regardless of when. a good deal of it is set/setting and current physical/spiritual conditions. I do have no doubt that an abort or stressed mushroom contains more alkaloids. perhaps as a defense mechanism. . I doubt most microbes would find the 'weekend' fruits to be a suitable home with such a high content. a few must or it wouldn't rot.. but it seems like a good way to slow a possible invader down at the door. so to speak.
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#100 Pilzkopf

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:10 PM

Hmm...so, what about inviting a specific invader that the myc can overcome? It would assist in reducing contamination, since the myc would be strong enough to kill it, but it would still be defending itself, and it would allow the myc to *form* in this high-alkaloid defensive mode...


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