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Redboy -potato/malt agar jars - G2G / Myc Syringes - Mycelium Milking / Super-Inoc

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#81 hyphaenation


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:31 PM





Comparing milked jars that are recovering after 24 hours. On the left is the heavy-ratio G2G jar , in the middle the 5 CC popcorn jar and on the right the 10 CC popcorn jar.

All were milked at the same time. Its quite noticeable that the jar on the left is slower and lagging behind. I find that interesting and believe it has to do with the way the grain is colonized and then goes into the G2G and then has older and newer grain in the same jar. Also interesting was the fact that super-inoculated jars grew faster than heavy G2G ratio jars earlier.




The mini-agar mycelium factories (thanks for the term CF) are complete for their second time. I made them a little full to milk , but may try anyways ... or dump them into a common jar and milk that.




Round 2 ready to go , and on to round three.




Little pin is growing. I hope to be able to throw it on some egg-carton cardboard this afternoon if I find time.

Now I'm off to buy a soldering gun kit , because mine is hopelessly buried and old. I have a gift certificate from 2 crhistmas's ago that will pay for it nicely and I'll be soldering milker lids within hours. Very exciting.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:18 PM.

#82 Il19z8rn4li1


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

Things are coming along great for you hyph,

Question though... Why do you interrupt the colonizing process of the mycelium? just for updating purpose on this thread?

do you happen to have any doubles of the "super-innoc" jars that are being kept in the dark for X days?
if not, from what I see here, I would imagine that leaving these babies undisturbed for 3-5 days would
MORE THEN CERTAINLY sprout amazing results ;)

#83 hyphaenation


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

Question though... Why do you interrupt the colonizing process of the mycelium? just for updating purpose on this thread?

I don't considered it harmful at all to move a jar out of total darkness for 30 seconds at a time for a picture to update a thread. How many people have done that to share a picture on mycotopia ? Answer: lots & lots and their grows weren't impaired.

Normally I'd just ignore them and leave them alone for weeks , but I'm in the middle of an experimental milking thread ...

Edited by hyphaenation, 09 January 2013 - 04:38 PM.

#84 Il19z8rn4li1


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Do you consider moving a jar to take a picture 'interrupting colonization process ? Cause I don't ...

It's called sharing progress and doesn't hurt the colonization an iota. Besides dude , give me a break its my first time trying this stuff and I'm excited to share.

I'm kind of amazed with whats happening as is , but I'm easy to impress and I won't apologize for sharing results.

Do you consider pics of colonizing tubs , cakes , logs , jars as harmful to the grow cycle ?

I was just asking some questions... dont worry im not gonna start another discussion in your thread Hyph, you
dont gotta be on guard.

First time... lol... please... your pro, its not like you DONT already have a very damn good idea
what is going to turn out as a result from this kinda testing lol... :) We all "scientist" to some degree lol
and no, im not suspecting KILLER colonizing speeds, (thats a bonus) im referring to the BROAD MINDED OUT OF THE BOX
thinking your bringing to the table, with also an added bonus of NONE laziness lol

im complimenting you brother man... take it lol

#85 hyphaenation


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

Also , I keep showing all the stages , because my time is limited to when I can do these experiments. I don't have dedicated grow spaces or labs or any of that ... I simply got an idea and ran with it and I'm documenting the process. My goal was to milk the mycelium , observe and report back the results and save the mycelium-water for later use because I can't even do a fruiting grow at this time. I didn't want to show some sanitized thread where I only show very beginning and then end results. The in-between was the discovery phase for me and that's why I was sharing.

First time... lol... please..

Not sure what you mean by that comment given the context of this thread.

First time making an invention to milk mycelium ... yes , it is. First time adding grain to agar-jars and milking/G2G'ing them and comparing growth rates , yes. First time super-inoculating yes. First time freezing mycelium , yes ...

Edited by hyphaenation, 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM.

#86 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:59 PM


I bought my new soldering gun kit and took it home. I noticed the solder they gave with it was really thin gauge so I went down to the hardware store to get a heavier one. As I browsed the aisle I saw an old friend and I asked him if he'd done much soldering. He asked what I needed to solder and I said to tin lids."Whats that for" he asked with curiosity and I replied for a project at home to which he asked "Does it involve food or drink?" ...

He went on to remind me , and show me the labels describing the amount of lead in solder. Then explained the ways lead can leak into the food/beverage from the soldered lids and how I'd be handling it , heating it up inside my PC and getting the vapors/residue everywhere. It started to sound like a nightmare.

I listened politely as he emphatically encouraged me to use something else ... "what about expoxy?" he asked , tried it of a few kinds I replied. "Keep trying and stay lead-free dude" he said as he left. Now I only had 5 minutes before the store closed. What a dilemma. I actually had the solder in my hand going to the till and I thought of getting lead in my mycelium and around my scene , and I just couldn't do it. I returned it to the shelf and scanned the aisles for something else. Today I'll return my soldering kit and trade it for something else I need around the house for renos.

What I came up with is a solderless clamping system using tiny screws and nuts that synches the two inner-lid circles together. I chose the smallest matching screws and nuts I could find and left to figure it out.

I'll do a complete write-up on how I made the milkers as soon as I can. For now I'll just describe generally how they were made.

Firstly I fucked around stoned and partially drunk and made about half a dozen duds due to simple mistakes. Then I decided to stop wasting time/lids and do it the way I figured would work best. One thing I noticed is the lids fit best together as the come out of the box , which means for our purposes one has to be normal position and one upside down.

I placed both lids on top of each other in the way they should be and drilled two small holes , one on the top near the edge and one on the bottom. I drilled through both lids at the same time. It took a few practice holes on a dummy lid to get it right so the bottom outside holes aren't to rough. Then I threaded the tiny screws part way through the holes so as to hold everything in place , so I change bits to a bigger metal bit and drill drain holes closer to the middle of the lid.

When that was done I placed an inner lid circle inside up and laid epoxy evenly around the red rim. Over that I slipped the ring band and closed it on the jar. This pushed the upside-down inner lid up and squeezed it against the lid-ring. Next came a layer of epoxy on the edge of the ring-band all the way around (both the top ring and the bottom). Then I applied an even layer of silicone over all the holes and around the whole surface of the lid , but thinner at the edges where it was near the epoxy.

Now comes the fun part ...

Placing the upper lid opposite and mirroring the lower one is tricky. You have to poke the silicone out of the screw holes so you can see them and then carefully place over and insert the screws , twist them in , flip and place the nuts on (silicone them a bit first). Tighten the screws completely. Now finally the lids are tightly bound together !

Finally I spread silicone over both inner faces of the lids and around where the lid meets the ring (so particulate doesn't lodge itself in there). The last thing was to use a nail and push the silicone out of the drain holes. You basically got push through , wipe off from the other side and pull it back through , or else you'' push through and bring it right back in.

I let them dry well.

So thanks for baring with me through all of this. Lots of trial and error ... as you can see. I don't mind though , its the way I work , fumbling along towards glory. Now these milkers are incredibly tough. Dare I say stronger than if they had been soldered possibly , and much safer I believe. Better to be safe than sorry.

I'll do some stress testing on the milkers when they are completely dry tonight. First 5 psi sterilize and then 10 and 15 PSI. If they stand up then I'll use the pattern I've created to make some of each size. Also I'm going to make different sized drainage holes for large / medium and small grains.

Here's some pics of my first batch of lead-free milkers.




Top view with the nuts holding things down. everything is siliconed.




Side-view. Maybe a hair to much epoxy ... oh well better to much than to little. The epoxy is key because it glues the lid to the ring and it secures the rings together so they don't turn.




You can see the silicone layer sandwiched between the two lids.




This was my first milker for the smaller-sized mason lid.

Now that I know the pattern , making them will be much easier. When I get a chance I'll do a pictoral of the steps in making these.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:20 PM.

#87 ethnobotanist420


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

I was kinda worried about the solder and the lead in it...
Glad to see you went this way! That's perfect. A nice silicone layer smooshed together nice and tight.
Looking forward to the testing and results!

#88 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

The milked jars really bounced back better than I had imagined. Its cool to see the rhyzo myc taking over right from the beginning. In a couple days I'll re-milk those jars for a second time , with my new myco-milkers.




48 hours after milking its ready to be milked again.




Healthy myc in there.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:21 PM.

#89 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

Virgin milked vs G2G-milked

The jars that were recently milked that grew from "milk-fed" super inoculation are screaming along and just finishing up recovery after 2.5 days. The jar that was the heavy G2G ratio and then milked is still lagging behind quite a bit. I think this says something about multi-aged grain in a single jar.

At the end of the day , even if you just milked mycelium to make a dozen or two heavy-mycelium syringes ... it goes along way towards super-fast colonization , plus as a major bonus the grain rebounds like bonkers and can be milked again (and perhaps again and so on).

On the left G2G-milked , in the middle 5 CC-from-milk jar and on the right 10 CC-from-milk.



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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:22 PM.

#90 Spooner


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

Silicone and bolts or pop rivets sounds like a great solution. Smart idea. New solders for plumbing and electronics are lead free, but a little harder to get to flow well. Double lid silicone sounds like simplest and best solution, thanks for saving me the trouble of doing all the more complex fails myself lol

#91 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

I cloned the first keener redboy that popped up in the agar/popcorn mini-jars.







Pasteurized two discs of egg-carton cardboard in a small jar and then drained , cooled and transferred the shroom whole into the egg-carton jar. Used a clean xacto-blade to severe & skewer the cap to remove. One disc was already flipped up so I just placed , flipped down the disc and shut the jar. I won't even put a breather on it until tomorrow so the mycelium fluffs up. I place it near the edge so I can see if its starting to do anything. When it grows through the surface I'll add grain and let that colonize to spawn on.




Here's the syringe of mycelium water that was frozen for a week and then thawed. I just injected it into a quart jar half-full with sterilized WBS. Injected through the ghetto-glove-bag and rolled around a bunch to disperse.

Going away for a few days , so that will let my milkers dry proper and the milk-jars should be prime another session.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:24 PM.

#92 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

As I expected I'm heading out for a few days and won't be able to update. Unfortunately , I don't have a lab or a dedicated room or anything like that so temps will lower (we are mid-winter after all). Besides which I'm not super happy with the way the first milking through the tube-rig drained. One jar is phenomenal and couple others look over-wet at the bottom. Now that I have my new and improved myco-milkers and I know that colonized popcorn rebounds super fast after being milked , I can come back and milk the already-milked-once jars (that were super-inoculated with myc-water to begin with) with the new hardware that will be as dry/cured as can be.

I'll fire back up with the stuff I got already and the jars I freshly milk , I'll make sure drain well (dry run tests show great drainage with the milkers) and get a true gauge of the power of this tek.

See yah in a bit.

#93 hyphaenation


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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

To paraphrase what's going on in this thread:

- agar is a simple , cost-effective way to start spores (one syringe does a great many jars , a drop at a time)
- you can transfer rhyzo/ropey mycelium to another agar jar to isolate it (I didn't do this for this thread but it can and should be done)
- When the mycelium grows out on the agar , sterilized grain can be introduced like a G2G (guess this is a G2A)
- When that grain is colonized you can G2G it to other jars and reload the agar-jar with more grain
- You can inject water into the colonized agar-grain jars , shake and suck back thick mycelium water
- Super-inoculating grain jars with thick mycelium water leads to super-fast colonization
- Milked jars of grain rebound easily and quickly and can be milked again
- Mycelium that is milked off of colonized grain might be able to be frozen for later use and thawed for use (checking this will know soon)
  • Gloid and myco related name like this

#94 hyphaenation


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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

I am not worthy.

Try adding some sterilized grain to your colonized agar jars and you're off to the races ...

#95 hyphaenation


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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

The Milking Chronicles

Part: Something-or-other ...

Good news & Bad news:

The bad news is the milker-lids I outlined above didn't function for me and I had to scrap them. Firstly the silicone I used between the lids wouldn't dry even after many days , and it exuded a white liquid "milk" of its own which dirtied the water when I tested it. Also the lid was near impossible to screw off the jar once it was tightened into place. It took near Herculean effort to get it off.

Back to the drawing board ...

The Good News:

I amuse myself often and don't mind failing , but there comes a certain limit of time/effort/money-spent where you just have to call off the R&D and go with something with a high chance of success. Early on I had been eying up 2 and 3 inch rubber couplings but didn't have a jar lid on me to test how they fit. After the last round of failures , I decided to go to the hardware store armed with lids to see what fits.


Here's what the 2 inch rubber coupling looks like.

Things I like about the rubber unit:

- small wide-mouth mason lid fits perfectly inside the rubber tube (with coaxing)
- the unit has hose-clamps to tighten snuggly
- its made of thick solid rubber and can easily withstand pressure cooking
- sturdy enough to handle a large jar attached to it from above
- easily cleanable

The first thing I did was loosen the hose-clamps and heat up the end of the rubber under very hot water from the tap. If your good you can skoot the rubber over the lid with your fingers , else use a butter knife to pry it over the last part. If you fail get the rubber hot and try again. Once each side was done I tightened the hose-clamps as low as they could go , careful not to tighten to much and cause the lid to warp.




Perfect fit.




All I did was insert lids and silicone ...

With both lids in place inside the rubber tube , I noticed that the top of the lid created a ledge all the way around that would most likely cause water to get trapped on it , which would suck when you go to take the milker off a jar - having it trickle out all over the place. What i decided to do was take knowingly PC-able silicone (GE II) and blob it around the inside of the tube on top of the lid rim. This serves two purposes ... it keeps the water from pooling on the lid rim , but also prevents water from running out between the lid and the rubber.




Next I took a lid and drilled clean holes with my metal drill bit. After many trials I noticed that firstly the lid that holds back the grain needs to be shiny side up , which creates a small well for the water to drain into. Also I saw that holes near the very edge help because the last bit of water when you drain the jar can escape there easier than the holes in the middle. The tests I did on the rubber milking-rig went very well , no leaks , great drainage , easy to get on and off ... but one issue was that when I removed the milking-tube the draining-lid stayed on the collection-jar , making it a hassle to remove the milker with one hand and place a closed lid on the jar with the other. To rectify this I modded the lid with a thick rubber band stretched around. It's PC'able and works great at keeping the milking-lid inside the milker when you pull it off.




Milking disc shown here enamel-side up. It's flipped to shiny side when in use for better drainage.

I smeared GE II silicone on both sides of the milker-lid and then poked it through the holes with a nail to clear holes. This silicone is to prevent rusting of the lid (which happens fast when cut/drilled). The rubber band keeps the lid inside the milker when I pull it off.




Here's what the rig looks like hooked up. Everything fits nice and tight and the rubber is very rigid so it can hold the wait of even large full jars.

After much testing I'm ready to give these milkers a proper go with colonized jars of popcorn. I feel really good about how they are performing and the simplicity in them. Almost any hardware store will have 2 inch rubber coupling like this. I also made a model exactly the same but in 3 inch for use with wide-mouth jars.

Now I'm ready to try the tests again , this time with proper equipment with good drainage (very important). I have several jars of colonized grain from the last round that I will milk , collect and super-inoculate with. My biggest challenge is dedicating a space with heat and the time to do it , but I'll make it happen.

Meanwhile in other news the small clone I took from the first fatty-keener pin in my popcorn has crested the egg-carton (mycelium grew through).









Pardon the quality ... tried 3 times to photo.

I'll add a small amount of PC'd popcorn to that jar very soon. When That colonizes i'll flood the jar and make mycelium-clone syringes.

The jars from the previous experiments on super-inoc had to be thrown out except for one. No contams , but they got bacteria rot in the bottoms because they weren't drained as they should have been. Next time I'll take greater care to drain properly. Also I'll do G2G vs. Milk-fed test again and will attempt to super-inoculate a line of jars all from the same milk-jar.

More soon.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:28 PM.

#96 Il19z8rn4li1


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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

im all caught up now Hyph :)

THanks for the genius perma air-port syringe mod.

I took your style and modded it a little bit.

what I did was cut the syringe down to 4-5ccs

then I cut the SCREW portion of the syringe that HOLDS the needle in place and tight,
so instead of having to drill the larger hole, i was able to drill a smaller hole and the
syringe is VERY VERY snog and sits FLUSH on the lid.

Silicone her on and let her cure for 2 days in a warm well vented place and she
already has been PCed and being used on some LCs i just made.

Ill get some pics of them soon.

#97 hyphaenation


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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

Blue Milk




These two jars were the 5cc and 10cc mycelium-water inoculated jars from earlier in the thread. They were colonized and then milked and then they rebounded in short order. Now its time to milk them again with my new rubber unit.




The colonized popcorn was shaken and a jar of water water was PC'd at 10 PSI for 1/2 an hour with the milker attached and tinfoil over that. Everything was put in the glove bag which was now facing up and down instead of sideways. I loaded in 6 quart jars of sterilized popcorn with their lid-bands removed.

The first thing I did was hook the milker to one of the colonized popcorn jars , tightened well , tightened hose-clamps and then flip the unit , flood the popcorn jar , shake well and flip to drain. I did this X2 by doing it to each jar but collecting the milk in the first jar. After that one by one I hooked up the popcorn jars to the milker , flipped and hooked to the water jar , tightened , lightly tightened hose-clamps , ... held breath and flipped , holding it on an angle.




It drained awesomely ! It was literally like it was raining in the jar. No leaks came out of the unit , I was careful to tighten well. Next I shook the jar holding top and bottom , swirled , shook more. Then I flipped the rig back over and drained the mycelium water out of the popcorn.




I shook and rolled the top grain jar around to make sure the last of the extra water was drained.




As soon as the milk started pouring in from the second milking I knew it was something to behold , because it was so thick with mycelium it looked like a severe snow blizzard inside the jar !




Within 30 seconds the mycelium-milk turned a deep blue , thus proving it had a high content of agitated mycelium.

After each jar received the milk I drained very well , took milker off and placed on breather lid and ring band and then rolled the grain around several times to disperse extra water and evenly spread kernels. Now I have a bunch of quart jars of popcorn that just got super-inoculated , the milked jars to recover and a bunch of left-over milk that I will figure something interesting to do with.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:31 PM.

#98 hyphaenation


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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

Just noticed the start date on the is project ... :headbang:



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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:32 PM.

#99 ConsciousFeeder


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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

That's crazy hyph. I didn't expect to see enough actives in the milk water for it to turn blue but low and behold! Coming along very nicely.

#100 hyphaenation


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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

That's crazy hyph. I didn't expect to see enough actives in the milk water for it to turn blue but low and behold! Coming along very nicely.

I've seen that kind of bluing with stalk chunks in the blender ... but this was just swirling and shaking grain. Pictures don't do justice how thick with mycelium the milk-jar is after the second pull.

Edited by hyphaenation, 18 January 2013 - 02:00 PM.

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