138 replies to this topic

[feralronin]

I decided to go ahead with my take on this mycelium milking biz.

took a pp5 container of wbs that was fully colonized and looked a bit dry overall. Pc'd some distilled water in a jar with silicon injection ports. I injected about 75 ccs after I shook. I agitated it and took a new syringe and sucked all the moisture into the syringes. I also took the last 20ccs and shot it back into the water jar, sterile.

I made sure to get all excess water from milked jar. Took syringes of myc laden water and shot up 16 qts using 3.5-5cc. All jars were shaken today and are growing FAST. The milked pp5 looks healthier now than pre-milk. Jar of myc water has been growing and has been placed in fridge.

Ive been reading about dunking grains, and after this I decided to try that also. And really, you can milk two days before you spawn, you could perpetually create spawn.


All work was done in the schmuvbox, and not a single issue has happened. Even though my favorite wbs has cracked corn in it, this myc water is hungry and loves it too.

[hyphaenation]

Hey , the websites back , and so am I ...

I was on a nice vacation for awhile and when I got back it was hard to get in the place. All good now it seems. I have some reading to do here, then I'll respond.

Thanks for the interest.

Got popcorn soaking and colonized grain in cold storage for use ASAP.

[hyphaenation]

Mycelium milk update

After a long hiatus Iam returning to this thread. There was a vactation in there and a bunch of life stuff. It would take a long time to type everything that I've been experimenting with and all my thoughts on these matters , so instead I'll fire off a list of somewhat random updates related to these experiments.

Milker Design

 

 

 

The one above is for the colonized grain jar side. The gold side sinks in for better drainage of the last of the water droplets.


I ended up using many of the same parts in my final build of the mycelium milkers. After trying many various ways included soldering leadfree , I came to the way that works best for me. What it is is two lid bands guerilla glued to each other then a hose clamp is placed over and incrementally tightened while pushing down on the band to sinch them together tightly. The next day they were rock solid and not even hercules could twist them apart.

I added the rubber gasket bands as an after thought because I kept getting small leaks when I flipped the milking jars. These little guys were 1.50 a box of 12 in the jar section. One side of the milking unit has the lid with the red seal and the other only has metal on metal , which leaked , so i put the rubber gromit on the one side. I noticed though that its more convenient to have the milking-disc with the holes in it to stay attached to the milker when you pull it off rather than staying on the jar and causing you to have to grab it. The second gromet makes a good seal and it prevents the milk disc from coming out and staying on the jar.

Here's the milker on a jar of grain

 

Same jar flipped over to drain after milking

 

You can use different sized jars with this sized milker.

 

Frozen Milk:

I always meant to do a write-up on what happened with the mycelium water I froze in various sized vessels but got majorly sidetracked ... To get right to the point frozen mycelium water did not work. The sharp ice crystals destroyed the mycelium and it wouldn't grow upon thawing. I could have googled that or looked it up at sites like the Shroomery where people have done similar things , but sometimes you just have to wing it and do your own experiment from scratch.

The failure of the frozen mycelium milk caused me to ponder what could mycelium be frozen in with and later thawed. I decided to run tests on various vegetable oils. I took Olive oil , Sunflower and Hemp oil and placed them equally in three small jars. Froze that in the fridges freezer and within an hour I saw the results.

Olive oil - frozen solid
Sunflower oil - frozen solid
Hemp oil - viscous , not frozen

I already knew from the past that Hemp oil didn't freeze because the wife and I had a gallon jug in the freezer that we used to refill a smaller bottle for over a year and it always poured out easily. The Sunflower oil had good features before it froze like not sticking to teh glass the way Hemp and Olive oil did , but when I took it out of the freezer , like Olive was completely frozen solid.

The next step was to PC sterlize a small jar of Hemp oil , cool and then hook it to the milker and a small jar of colonized grain (the mini-agar factory jar from above), tighten the seals , flipped the jars over and the Hemp oil worked just like the water... just a little thicker. When the colonized grain jar had the oil on its side I shook the jar to break up the popcorn and then shook somemore. When I flipped it back I let it drain on its own for awhile. Right away you could see that worked because there was a bunch of mycelium floating and/or suspended in the Hemp oil.

I placed that jar in a deep-freezer for two weeks and took it out. Wasn't frozen at all. In a glovebox I poured a small amount of the Mycelium-Hemp oil into a sterilized jar of popcorn. Rolled it around a bunch to disperse and then waited. The problem is that I poured way to much Hemp oil into the popcorn. Right away it looked all greasy. For several days nothing happened , no bounceback. I was worried it would go rancid and so I intended to throw it out , but two days later it was getting fuzzy white and in three it was fully colonized. Now what I have to do is repeat the steps , but squirt way less Hemp oil into the grain. A little goes a long way with an oily substance. I'll keep on with the experiments and document when I can.

Good things about Hemp oil:

- Doesn't freeze whatsoever
- Is edible for the mycelium at normal temperatures
- Oily texture lends to spreading out and sticking to grain in a jar
- Floats on water
I tried putting the unfrozen Hemp oil in with water to see what happened and it imeadiatly floated to the surface. I experimented a bit with shaking the jar to see if the mycelium would go into the water , or settle into the water through gravity , but from my limited work it seems to be locked in the oil suspended.

Here's the Hemp oil inoculated jar after regrowing and spend 3 months in cold storage

 

Below 40 degree storage:

Before I took a break it was deep in winter. There were parts of the basement that were constantly about 30 to 35 degrees F. I simply left my jars of popcorn that had been milked 4 or 5 times already and rebounded in a box in the darkish at that temp. Three months later I opened the box and all the jars were like the day I left them , in fine shape. Same with the tiny agar factory jars that I had milked before.

 

Half gallon , milked 3 times already and sat 3 months at 35F



I milked a small agar jar right away and got several thick syringe-fulls out of it that were packed with mycelium. Each one I squirted through the polyfil hole , emptied the full thing and then moved on and repeated for each sterlized popcorn jar , on in each. Left lots of room for sharking , so I swirled each one around , rolled it up and down and throughly mix the 10 CC of mycelium water into the popcorn. I mentioned earlier about about power-draining with the plate over the colander and whipping the last remaining water out (apposed to just drip draining). This one small step is a giant leap for gettting the right moisture levels to allow 10 CC of thick mycelium water to be squirted in. If you already had wet feet and excess water , there's no way you could inject 10 CC.

3.5 to 4 days later this is what the 10CC milk-fed jars look like at close to 80 F

 

The aged popcorn that has been milked several times still looks really decent , even after a three month cold storage , but as you can see that doesn't slow the mycelium down. I think I'll move it to horse manure just because it's been through so much already and it would be nice to fruit it out.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:38 PM.

[drbobb]

I been reading this milking thread a few times now and I was wandering if anyone has thought about faht's old isolation tek lids so you could dry out the "mycelium machines" easily and store them for later use. Unfortunately I don't have any lids made nor any available jars. Otherwise I would try it. However, I do have some baby food jar plates colonizing with pfc that I just started two days ago but I will be trying this with them and I am going to construct your latest double lid setup, but only with baby food lids instead.

Edited by drbob, 08 May 2013 - 11:21 PM.
reworded

[hyphaenation]

So I have made myself a nice Glovebox out of a clear tote. The bag was working , but conditions inside the box are much , much more sterile and controllable. I prepared a dozen jars of popcorn by PC'ing them for 90 minutes at 15 psi and then let them cool. Inside the PC I also sterilized the milking unit wrapped in tinfoil and a quart jar 2/3's filled with store-bought water (lid band not on tight). After cooling the PC , I loaded 2 "mother jars" of popcorn that were fully colonized , but had never been milked yet. Shook them to break up kernals. I also placed the water jar and the milker inside the GB and a small clean tupperware with lid to house lids I pull off and the milker.

I loaded the popcorn jars in there also and then sprayed down with mild bleach water. Waited 10 minutes and then went to work.

I took the lid ring off the water jar and gently pried the lid ajar using the ring. Then I removed the ring on the first 'mother jar (colonized) and popped its lid. Swiftly I placed the milker on the grain jar and twisted it tight , flipped it over and popped the water jar lid off , placing it in the tupperware dish. At the same time I turned the grain jar upside down and screwed the milker on to the water jar. Tightened , and then flipped it. The seal held and it rained water into the grain jar. I shwished that around , shook and then flipped back over to drain. I repeated this for the second mother jar , so the milk in the jar was 2 X strength. It blued up nicely right away.

Then I one by one, placed the milker on a sterile popcorn jar , flip it on to the milk jar , tighten and flip over to allow the milk to swish around the jar and then back over to drain. It drained very well. Each time I took a jar off the milker , I immediately replaced the normal breather lid onto it (the lids sit in the tupperware). It went smoothly and I super-inoculated all twelve jars. But only barely ... because that 2/3 jars-worth of mycelium milk got sucked up pretty good by the popcorn jars and on the last of twelve there was barely any extra that came out.

Now 48 hours later , all jars are showing signs of mycelium everywhere throughout. The temps have been as close to 80F as i can get.

I will need to do a direct comparison (and please feel free to do it yourself , even if I don't have time) of 'super-inoculated jars , which is as described above , myc-flooding/draining VS. 10CC injection of mycelium water , which I had amazing results with a few months ago. It appears that 10 CC injection of myc-water grows , or at least starts faster than flood super-inoculation. Thats not a for sure , just an early observation.

I will do a test with 10 CC VS Super-Inoc as soon as I have a chance and go with whichever one colonizes the fastest.

Here's the mother jars 48 hours after being milked for the first time:

 

The growth spots in the super-inoculated jars are everywhere , but after 48 hours they are just starting to pick up. After this they should move rapidly from every direction.

 

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[hyphaenation]

Temps are warming up around here and its easier to keep things at 80F. It was quite cold at night all last week and hot in the day , so its been tricky to control temps.

 

Mother milking jars are going to be recolonized and ready to go again shortly.

 

10 out of 12 jars that were super-inoculated 2.5/3 days ago look like this.

 

I think I should have hit the 12 jars with slightly more milk. As I ran out in the end almost , I realize that much of the mycelium was stuck in the popcorn from previous jars. The last couple had myc , but very tiny strands , so the last 2 are a bit behind.

 

Still though there is mycelium everywhere , even in the stragglers...

No signs of contams , fingers crossed.

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Uncle G]

So here a few questions. Do you feel like its faster than g2g? Also less of hassle? Apologize I have not read thread just last couple weeks. I didnt see it till the other day.

[hyphaenation]

Yah ,its faster than G2G in my experience at a rate of 10 to 12 CC of mycelium water per quart jar.



Left - Heavy G2G transfer Middle - 10 CC mycelium water injection Right - 5 CC mycelium water injection . All after 5 days colonizing.

Plus , you can remilk the same jar of grain many times over. It recovers fully within days and you can use it as spawn or milk again (and again).

Earlier I had lightning speed and now its a bit slow , but I believe that comes from storing the mother jars for a few months at low temps. They got over-colonized and sat there in limbo in a cold basement. At any rate , I believe that this system does improve colonization times substantially. Also when you have a jar of colonized grain from this way of doing it , you have one age of grain in it. In a G2G jar you have two ages of grain , a new and an old one. It seems advantageous to only use one age of grain in a spawning ...

Furthermore , the colonized grains get a bath of soak water every time you milk the jars. You strip some but not all of their mycelium and they soak up the water. This really helps the longevity of keeping the mother jars going. It also improves the spawn to be soaked to maximum moisture before its used to spawn substrates , especially if its been colonizing for a long time.

[Uncle G]

So I am getting with g2g pints in 6 days and quarts 10 maybe. Quarts are little less predictable. Are you having any water issues? How long do think a jar could last? Be nice to have a 2 generation clone jar stashed for months and months of use.

[hyphaenation]

Yah , the jars I'm using are larger quart-sized 2/3's full (room for shaking). You can remilk as many as a dozen times or more and then use the grain as spawn. This would work good for many species other than Cubes. The mother jars can be stored below 50 F for several months at at a time and milked later with no problem. The milk itself can be used as an innoculant or mixed with other things like blended egg-carton etc.

-Colonized jars can be milked more than a dozen times
-Milked jars fully recover within 3 to 4 days and can be milked again
- 10CC of mycelium water per quart jar colonizes fully in 3 to 5 days (depending on strain/species)
- Mother jars of colonized grain can be stored for several months at temps below 50 F
- You can inject mycelium water into manure jars like those used in growing Pans for fast growth

This would work very good for Pans.

Make a couple jars of any species on grain. Colonize. Milk and then inject 10 CC of milk into each 2/3 full quart jar of grain. 10 CC is perfect amount if you have drained your grain well ... like I mentioned with the lid or plate over the colander to whip the last of the moisture out of the grain. This is very important , I've done it many times and every time I drain well I am able to add 10 CC of mycelium water per quart jar with no issues.

One pint jar milked can provide enough mycelium milk to inoculate 20 jars or more at 10 CC per jar. Those jars once injected and rolled around to disperse should fully colonize within 5 days or less at 80 F.

Edited by hyphaenation, 18 May 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[Uncle G]

I am guessing with it col in 5 days. Your not having any contamination issues? I am going to go back and read the whole thread. I will go ahead ask. Is your master the half jar of grain or you milking the full jar? I am going to have to give this shot. Be few months got to many irons in the fire. Mate0x was talking to me about it. Been hard catching you in chat the last few months.

[Uncle G]

Well now I have read it. You got like 50 likes as I used them to mark my place. Kept with the meat of the thread. Have tried the plastic lids? Seems like they be easier to work with being all one piece. I got some whole metal lids some where.

It is kewl that now you have done away with syringes.

[hyphaenation]

I'd try plastic lids for sure ... just using what's around and I have a shitload of those metal lids. I like the way they stand up in the PC at 15 PCI , but I realize they have a rust factor.

Syringes are very convenient , but they kinda look weird , hard to explain when someone sees them laying around , and mailing them across the border ... yikes , I cringe. You could go syringeless this way , but I'm not bashing syringes and actually a friend gave me a box of fifty 12CC syringes and needles , brand new and its a godsend , I love the convenience. But like a said I am a bit loathe to have them laying around the house or have people see them.

I bet other people's cultures would grow much faster than mine shown. I am not a Cubensis specialist and don't really pursue aggressive healthy mycelium , I just keep it clean and wing it. Some of the varieties I've seen on here like KSSS seems extremely aggressive.

I just bought a 50 LBS bag of popcorn so I'm ready to try some experimentation.

[Uncle G]

I'd try plastic lids for sure ... just using what's around and I have a shitload of those metal lids. I like the way they stand up in the PC at 15 PCI , but I realize they have a rust factor.

Syringes are very convenient , but they kinda look weird , hard to explain when someone sees them laying around , and mailing them across the border ... yikes , I cringe. You could go syringeless this way , but I'm not bashing syringes and actually a friend gave me a box of fifty 12CC syringes and needles , brand new and its a godsend , I love the convenience. But like a said I am a bit loathe to have them laying around the house or have people see them.

I bet other people's cultures would grow much faster than mine shown. I am not a Cubensis specialist and don't really pursue aggressive healthy mycelium , I just keep it clean and wing it. Some of the varieties I've seen on here like KSSS seems extremely aggressive.

I just bought a 50 LBS bag of popcorn so I'm ready to try some experimentation.

Ya its all pretty kewl. I am going to do this with a couple of yoo-hoo bottles. Have col grain in one. Have you strile water in the other attach. Transfer the water to the grain shake and transfer the water back. Doesn't sound right. Is this close to what your doing? I been partying and drinking all day. So you know goes if this sounds messed up.

[hyphaenation]

Here's the mother jar that was milked once , just about recolonized and the dozen jars that were super-inoculated look like the one on the right. They'll be finished by tonight/morning. When I milk again , I'll compare 12 CC syringe inoculation vs. super-inoculation jar-flooding. Whichever one is faster , I'll carry on using that way.

 

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Edited by hyphaenation, 04 December 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[Uncle G]

So if you do jar flooding you flooding jar draining it then next, then next, then next. All the time using the same milk. ???

[hyphaenation]

So if you do jar flooding you flooding jar draining it then next, then next, then next. All the time using the same milk. ???

Yes sir , that is exactly right.

Milk a quart jar mother jar in glovebox ... water in , shake , water out ... run that mycelium milk through many jars one by one. I did a dozen , but could have used a touch more water in the beginning. The last two jars did good but a touch slower.

[Uncle G]

Congrats on 10,000 posts.

:eusa_snoo

But I think your on to something if going from one jar to the next without having contamination problems.

Edited by uncleG, 19 May 2013 - 07:03 PM.
Hyph's cheating. Abuse of power. LMFAO

[Seeker2be]

Have read the whole thread and wonder if gluing the plastic lids back to back you can buy at wally world (or the TaT ler ones?) in the canning section, drilling holes, gluing with silicon might just be a simpler method for making the mycomilkers. It is redundant to say this but you have done an excellent job . I marvel always at the creativity, community, and evolution of the ideas here. There is hope for this country through the brilliance and more importantly the persistence you have displayed. I love to brainstorm and appreciate you letting us into your brain processes.