36 replies to this topic

[Kronos]

To find a source of whole grain that is free of heat-tolerant endospores must be nice.

 

And the way to debate techniques or methods on this site is by posting photos of the results, not by sniping at each other with passive-aggression (or active-aggression). Temp-bans await if it continues.

 

Photos speak for themselves, but what they say can also be false or misleading (especially nowadays) so it's best if a controversial method is tested by several experienced growers who all post their results.

 

In other words, the only reasonable way to determine if a Tek is worth following is by subjecting it to peer review to establish that it's results are satisfactory and reproducible.

 

 

 

Makes sense to me....fancy checking it out!

[Kronos]

Looking pretty heathy......    

 

RedBoy on 45/45/10 Wild Bird Seed, Coir and Coffee Grounds.

 

 

[Kronos]

From colonisation of pots to colonisation of cake its taken two weeks. I have not lost the knack, this is after a 10 year break.

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[PJammer24]

From colonisation of pots to colonisation of cake its taken two weeks. I have not lost the knack, this is after a 10 year break.

 "the knack"... you say that as if you think this is an art or something...!     

[ItBeBasidia]

If we all did the same thing without experimenting we wouldn't get anywhere

Right about that. Keep on keeping on. Even if it goes against conventional cultivation ways or has yet to be scientifically explained, you might happen upon a gem of a discovery.

I wouldn't recommend for new people or beginners though. Just because I think it's essential for them to have one successful fool proof grow first, then go on with other methods and experiments.

Back in my rambling days, I was forced to innovate and experiment with techniques like fractional sterilization, using microwaves, oven/burner updrafts, rigging jars and containers, etc. Basically making grows happen with what's available at the time.

It's been about 4 years since my MacGyver days. I've got the bees knees lab setup now with flow hood, autoclave, made for purpose jars, magnetic stirrer, you name it. There is nothing like that feeling of accomplishment you get from a grow you contrived though.

Edited by ItBeBasidia, 04 December 2020 - 04:31 PM.

[Kronos]

 

If we all did the same thing without experimenting we wouldn't get anywhere

Right about that. Keep on keeping on. Even if it goes against conventional cultivation ways or has yet to be scientifically explained, you might happen upon a gem of a discovery.

I wouldn't recommend for new people or beginners though. Just because I think it's essential for them to have one successful fool proof grow first, then go on with other methods and experiments.

Back in my rambling days, I was forced to innovate and experiment with techniques like fractional sterilization, using microwaves, oven/burner updrafts, rigging jars and containers, etc. Basically making grows happen with what's available at the time.

It's been about 4 years since my MacGyver days. I've got the bees knees lab setup now with flow hood, autoclave, made for purpose jars, magnetic stirrer, you name it. There is nothing like that feeling of accomplishment you get from a grow you contrived though.

 

 

Cheers for the feed back. 

 

This is my own process that I put together as a beginner. No lab, No pressure cooker, no hood flow. Just what's in the instructions. everything was gleaned and adapted from this site. I guess a blessing from the creators.

 

I think this is fool proof low tek process for beginners. Give it a go.

 

I am not an expert in this in any means, but that last cake is the result of the process. 

 

PM me if you wanna chat about it.

[rockyfungus]

I'm so confused, I've had my highest contam rate with WBS and a PC. Even bird seed agar contamed more then any other grain agar I've used.

What brand of WBS are you using?

I feel coir is pretty hard to mess up, I bet you don't even need to pasteurize to get a decent success rate.

Perhaps this works like certain teks I've seen to clean agar. Maybe most contams can't move from the grain core to the coir outters?

[Kronos]

I'm so confused, I've had my highest contam rate with WBS and a PC. Even bird seed agar contamed more then any other grain agar I've used.

What brand of WBS are you using?

I feel coir is pretty hard to mess up, I bet you don't even need to pasteurize to get a decent success rate.

Perhaps this works like certain teks I've seen to clean agar. Maybe most contams can't move from the grain core to the coir outters?

 

Hey Rockyfungus,

 

The bird seed is not technically WBS, as this can mean a wide range of material, perhaps I should edit my instructions. I used WBS on here as that is the normal descriptions. What I am using is mixed millet bird seed, as I am aware sunflower or the fat dont go down well with the mycelium.

 

I am pasteurising the coir and rinsing the millet. Also I have never used a PC with this. Maybe the PC gets to hot and cooks the bird seed.

 

Cheers

[rockyfungus]

I think sunflower seeds are fine. I've never had issues with a few sunflower seeds in there. I think I even stopped removing them at one point.

[Kronos]

I'm so confused, I've had my highest contam rate with WBS and a PC. Even bird seed agar contamed more then any other grain agar I've used.

What brand of WBS are you using?

I feel coir is pretty hard to mess up, I bet you don't even need to pasteurize to get a decent success rate.

Perhaps this works like certain teks I've seen to clean agar. Maybe most contams can't move from the grain core to the coir outters?

 

Maybe why you have your highest contaminate rate if you are going with the sunflower seeds. I read a long time to avoid them. So I have

[rockyfungus]

I avoided them at first and it was such a huge time sink, that I started leaving a few, then got to the point where I left them all.

I eventually got a success rate of 99% with WBS, just 10% success with grain water from WBS.

I loved WBS when I used it, but I just use whatever whole grain is cheapest, tends to lead to the first few batches being a work in progress as I live in a very arid climate.

[Kronos]

This is for @FunG - 12 years break 100% success

These are about 7-9 inches tall btw.

 

Edited by Kronos, 22 December 2020 - 02:29 PM.

[Kronos]

Latest Results.

[groo]

Hey man, I'm all about teks that really work without a pc like LC and PF tek. They thing is, you may have gotten lucky with a fairly clean batch(S) of grains. Perhaps you are unaware of the completely shitty spawn they have everywhere else in the world except in the usa. The Grains in the usa are so perfect.you could sterilize them in warm water and probably only have 2% failures.

 

The grains every where else in the world may experience significantly spotty and higher contam rates. I, for example was without a PC for a long time as I lost my jiggler. I used some ghetto ass teks that worked like shit with acceptable 3-10% contam rates. But this is by no means the way I will be writing my teks now. Best of luck with your no pc teks but if you dont have a PC, buy one and if you do, use and consider the fact that if people follow your tek they will 100% experience contams probably a 100% rate. Do you want to know people are getting contams following your teks? I would not want that either.

 

Grains are expensive and losses add up. Also you probably are experiencing something more along the lines of 90-100% contam rate although you claim your SERIOUS infection/discard rate was a claimed 2%. Although some were able to actually colonize does not mean they are not contaminated with god knows what.

Edited by groo, 04 January 2021 - 02:55 PM.

[coorsmikey]

Then there's a percentage of neophytes that use a PC and still get contamination following the best teks. I know that a no PC tek can be done and don't personally have any doubt. Some people have to reinvent the wheel the way along following a tek and those are the one that are going to have troubles whether using a PC or not. I wouldn't recommend someone make grain spawn without a PC but hey if Kronos wants to share ways for people to get medicine that don't have access to a PC, then cool. I would be willing to document some experiments that I think I could pull off without for successful grain spawn but that would not change the fact that others need to understand the concept before wasting the grain to try. Or perhaps some would like to know that it can be with repeatable results that the average neophyte will most likely fail a few times before getting it. The same with a cooker even though I firmly believe that a cooker will better the odds of success ragout of the gate. I guess what I'm trying to say is that It's kind of silly to say that it cannot be done and would be better worded for the people reading, that it come with worse odds of success for the beginner.

 

Its just confusing to here that it cannot be done and see that some can pull it off. It makes the people that say it can't be done look like they don't know what they are talking about when it is done while at the same making the people that CAN do it look like they don't know shit even though both side are wanting to help others. I remember when I was in school and they taught me that if you do Coke just once you will instantly become addicted and if you did LSD just once you will for sure be jumping out of a window from a very high building to your death. While that may have been the case to a few people that probably should have not been doing those things, It made me that more curious because I saw a different experience from what I was told to be true.
 

Moral of the story is if can't get sterile grain with a PC you probably won't have any luck without one. If you get it and don't have a PC then there is a chance, but a majority of folks cannot pull it off and will tell you that you cannot.

[TVCasualty]

It's just confusing to here that it cannot be done and see that some can pull it off. It makes the people that say it can't be done look like they don't know what they are talking about when it is done while at the same making the people that CAN do it look like they don't know shit even though both side are wanting to help others.
 

 

 

This is a common problem in all sorts of contexts, not just growing fungi. There's almost always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat, but what's often left out when listing them all is that some ways are far more probable to succeed (every time, not just once) than others. That's probably why the concept of "best practices" was conceived for engineering, and we'd be well-served to adopt it for what we do, too.

 

A lot of confusion could be cleared up if we discussed grow TEKs in terms of their relative probabilities of success. None are 100% certain to work, and almost none are 100% certain to fail. But some have a very high probability of succeeding over others, and IMO we have a responsibility to stick with those when providing recommendations to aspiring growers who have little to no experience.

 

It's also very important to not get blinded by "the curse of knowledge" as defined by Steven Pinker: “[T]he failure to understand that other people don’t know what we know.” It's the cause of vast amounts of unnecessary bafflement (and bad writing) in the world.

[Kronos]

Thanks Guys.

 

I have been getting a lot of hate on my tec, I wrote these instructions for people without the funds or space for a PC.

 

What I have managed to do was follow the instructions twelve years later and have good success and posted the results.

 

Like you say, there are multiple ways to skin a cat! I used what I had at hand and selected various tec's from just this site to get the job done and documented the process to share with other.

 

After all, you dont see spores knocking on your door asking for a PC in the wild.....