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Cannabutter Q's


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#1 Mr Kush

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

Good morning 'Topia! It's been a while since I have chatted with many of you... I hope all is well.:heart:

I apologize in advance for being so lazy and not looking this up myself, as I'm sure all the info I need is already on this site. I'm just swamped working mad hours atm. So any help is greatly appreciated.:kiss:

I simply just want to make some budder. I was thinking about using 7g of mid-grade cannabis.


My Q's are-

how much butter should I use?

What temp is needed in order for the cannabinoids to solute into the oils/fats of the butter?

As for decarboxylation, can it take place by drying the cannabis over a slow time with low heat (such as using a dehydrator), or do you need to hit a certain temp for it to take place?

#2 PsyBearknot

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

I usually use 1/2 to 3/4 an ounce of regular brick weed for 1/2 cup of oil. I use 1/2 cup of oil for 1 recipe of brownies to get me 8 light weight buzz to 4 nice strong buzz doses. I have used these same ratios with butter. I just think the oil does a better job. I've not had the best success with butter. You can use less butter.


i will decarb the brick weed round 220 to 240 for 20-40 min. Decarb is necessary with butter cause your temp you get your butter to will extract but to decarb in the butter it would damage the butter. From what I've read, yes this decarb process can happen in a dehydrator. But it takes awhile.


One thing I'd add to your butter is soy lecithin. It's cheep. The powdered form is easier to work with than liquid. Only need a 1/4 th teaspoon during the extraction and a 1/4 teaspoon after. It helps the body absorb food. It will improve on the efficiency of your final product. You won't be sorry!!!

#3 Lodi

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

You could do multiple pulls of mass amounts of green with the same butter and still only make it more potent. I have no idea the amount of THC and CBN's CBD's butter or oil could hold because I have never seen a limit. I do know from a LOT of experience with edibles and tinctures that the maximum it can hold is way more than anyone should be putting into butter. I have made cookies where a nibble, yes a nibble, maybe 1/2 half teaspoon of cookie was powerful enough to put a 230lb man on his back for 16 hours (me).

If your brownies or cookies call for a small amount of butter than you will have to do multiple cooks or runs with your weed and butter, maybe 3 or 4 before you will get everything out, and remember that when straining the plant material you will lose butter without the proper restraunt equipment to help get every last drop out of your leftover product.

I like to do about 6-10 hours at boiling. I use butter dissolved in enough water to cover your plant material by atleast 3 inches. If your worried about losing goodies you can use less grass per cook, so that each time you discard the water and plant matter and keep the butter, then use that same butter with more water and plant matter until you use it all up. That is the best way if you have the time for it.

As far as temp, if you start out low until the butter is thouroghly mixed in the with hot and wet plant matter, you can get it very very hot without destroying anything. You dont want to burn the plant matter, but you want it hot. Because the thc bonds with the fat molecule it makes it very strong compared to the previously neutral state of the thc molecule.

#4 Lodi

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

i will decarb the brick weed round 220 to 240 for 20-40 min. Decarb is necessary with butter cause your temp you get your butter to will extract but to decarb in the butter it would damage the butter. From what I've read, yes this decarb process can happen in a dehydrator. But it takes awhile.



Decarb is not needed with making cannabutter. Decarb is needed for making certain tinctures and concentrates. Because of the residual moisture in the bud, it needs to be heated at low temp to quickly get rid of any moisture before using something like ethanol whose non-polar solvent extraction properties would be diminished with dilution of your alcohol.

In the case of cannabutter the best method involves adding it to water and butter so that neither plant nor butter burn in a hot pan. Butter or oil is our solvent in this case so that means that the psychoactive alkaloids in mj will transfer from the water to the butter which cannot be absorbed or dilluted by water.

#5 mate0x

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

Reg/mids ? Is already decarboxylated, don't worry about it.

The THC is fat soluble anyway, temp just makes it happen faster. 210 F works fine.

How much butter? You can use a tiny amount, but some will get left behind in the bud, so you want to use enough to ensure your extraction is efficient. I would use the water method Lodi is describing.

So... half a stick of butter, 7 grams of weed, enough water to cover it all....bring to boil and simmer for an hour. Strain and squeeze. Let separate in the fridge and drain the water.

(Just a general off the top of my head recommendation

Decarb is not needed with making cannabutter. Decarb is needed for making certain tinctures and concentrates. Because of the residual moisture in the bud, it needs to be heated at low temp to quickly get rid of any moisture before using something like ethanol whose non-polar solvent extraction properties would be diminished with dilution of your alcohol.

)

While residual moisture may have some minor impact on extraction potential, this is not why people decarboxylate. It is to convert the THCA to THC, which can impact anything you are working with if the material is fresh. Now, I agree most methods of extraction that apply heat combined with most bud being cured it is mostly a non-issue for people...however if you are working from fresh or freshly dried material, you will want to decarboxylate your material, even when making butter or cooking oil.

Butter or oil is our solvent in this case so that means that the psychoactive alkaloids in mj will transfer from the water to the butter which cannot be absorbed or dilluted by water.


Aside from the bits of resin that become dislodged from the plant, there is never THC in the water.

I like to do about 6-10 hours at boiling.


You really only need to do it for 20-30 minutes, I do an hour to be thorough and mix really well the whole time. Why 6 -10 hours? What is happening in that time? IMO it makes the butter taste bad and degrades your goodies.
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#6 Lodi

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:49 PM

You really only need to do it for 20-30 minutes, I do an hour to be thorough and mix really well the whole time. Why 6 -10 hours? What is happening in that time? IMO it makes the butter taste bad and degrades your goodies.



You are breaking down the plant, I have done side by sides with 30 mins or 2hrs, 4hrs etc. And with everything under 6 I get weak edibles that have faded away in several hours. My edibles our not the crap you would buy from the local dispensary lol you eat a full cookie from my method and your not able to move much, what made me first realize there was such thing as TO HIGH. And the best part is you eat one and they last 12+ hours, I have had up to 18 myself, which was a mistake I never made again. Also cookies work better than a tray or pan of anything because in your pan of brownies the oil will settle, usually in the middle making certain pieces much more potent than others. Or you could make brownie cupcakes which are wonderful.

Your very right about the converting of thca to thc, not sure why that didnt come to mind when I was writing that.

#7 caitojones

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

[quote name='PsyBearknot']I usually use 1/2 to 3/4 an ounce of regular brick weed for 1/2 cup of oil. I use 1/2 cup of oil for 1 recipe of brownies to get me 8 light weight buzz to 4 nice strong buzz doses. I have used these same ratios with butter. I just think the oil does a better job. I've not had the best success with butter. You can use less butter.[QUOTE]

Oil is definitely better. I've had medical marijuana edibles made by growers and dispensaries, and none of them were all they're cracked up to be. I've gotten higher off of homemade oil brownies and even off of eating raw bud.

As for Lodi's statement about knocking someone on their ass - I've heard other people say the edibles (same ones I ate) knocked them on their ass, but I don't really think that's possible (for me) with weed, unless you smoke like a gram in one hit out of a gravity bong or something. Maybe it was meant to be hyperbole.

#8 Sidestreet

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:37 AM

A friend of mine once made a batch of brownies that "knocked me on my ass." My entire body literally went numb. I could barely walk... I think I had to crawl. I was naive and feared for my life!

He made that batch in the kitchen at the restaurant we worked in. The waitress had one and had to go home. :lol:

He says vegetable oil is the way to go.

#9 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

You are breaking down the plant, I have done side by sides with 30 mins or 2hrs, 4hrs etc. And with everything under 6 I get weak edibles that have faded away in several hours. My edibles our not the crap you would buy from the local dispensary lol you eat a full cookie from my method and your not able to move much, what made me first realize there was such thing as TO HIGH. And the best part is you eat one and they last 12+ hours, I have had up to 18 myself, which was a mistake I never made again. Also cookies work better than a tray or pan of anything because in your pan of brownies the oil will settle, usually in the middle making certain pieces much more potent than others. Or you could make brownie cupcakes which are wonderful.

Your very right about the converting of thca to thc, not sure why that didnt come to mind when I was writing that.


I don't buy edibles from dispensaries, infact there almost almost none in my area even though we have medical communities. I live in the New England area. People bring me things from Cali though, the 8x brownies with hash oil fudge on top are crazy good.

I totally agree one normal sized toll house recipe cookie from me is a nice 8-12 hour high, I don't even need to smoke that day.

But ( I am making this number up, will find the real one later) 95% of the THC is in the resin glands on the outside of the plant...so why do you need to break the plant down? All that does it pull a meaningless % out, along with tons of extra chlorophyll and waxes.

When I do other solvent extractions, it takes around 20 seconds. When I infuse cooking oil its about 15 minutes. (With green marijuana I'm talking)

So I just don't see how anyone needs to do their butter for 12 hours, or anything close to that.

As for Lodi's statement about knocking someone on their ass - I've heard other people say the edibles (same ones I ate) knocked them on their ass, but I don't really think that's possible (for me) with weed, unless you smoke like a gram in one hit out of a gravity bong or something. Maybe it was meant to be hyperbole.


There is risk of getting too high; Paranoia, extremely low blood pressure, nausea, fainting, falling etc.....

I've seen people fall over and I've seen people puke. Usually from green dragon but sometimes the cookies get out of control.

#10 PsyBearknot

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

I will decarb my regs still. I have noticed a difference. I thought with the boil method that you would still decarb with butter due to the boiling point of water does not get the butter temp high enough to decarb.

#11 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:56 AM

I will decarb my regs still. I have noticed a difference. I thought with the boil method that you would still decarb with butter due to the boiling point of water does not get the butter temp high enough to decarb.



The butter does decarb during extraction process when you apply heat, just at some unknown lower rate. A low boil over x amount of time will decarb it. The people who venture into the long butter making times should see no issues.

I was mentioning specifically when working from fresh material you want to be sure to decarb, as a significant portion of the THC is still in the form of THCA.

If the weed is older than a few months, cured or in a brick, it is likely decarbed naturally over time.

#12 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

Forgot to mention, KUSH:

Grind that herb up good bro, before it hits the water.

#13 cheetolay

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

i have made budder many times, using my sugar leaf trim. this is my procedure, take it or leave it.

first, measuring the butter to pot ratio. pretty easy, 1/4 lb of butter to every 1/4 oz of pot.

next, take a large pot, put a good amount of water in it, about half way from the top.

bring it to a boil, at that point add the butter, and bring the heat down to a low low simmer, to where you see a bubble break the surface every now and then.

add your marijuana(ground finely), and simmer like that for 4-8 hours

after done cooking, take the mixture and pour through a filter, i like cheesecloth, into another container

put the filtered solution in the refridgerator for at least 10 hours.

take out of the fridge, bust off the top portion of budder, and discard the brown water

voila, cannabudder, i notice that the color range of budder has a lot to do with color of the weed. light green makes neon green budder, purple makes a greyish budder, and im sure brown pot would make dark green to brown budder.

p.s. this can also be done in a crock pot to avoid over heating, and gives you the timed range in which you need.

enjoy

#14 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:16 AM

Last week we did 100 grams sugar trim to 1 pound butter :)

Got back 3 sticks of heaven.

#15 Lodi

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:00 AM

But ( I am making this number up, will find the real one later) 95% of the THC is in the resin glands on the outside of the plant...so why do you need to break the plant down? All that does it pull a meaningless % out, along with tons of extra chlorophyll and waxes.


I could see maybe a couple hours doing its job on BUD, def not trim. If you do an hour with trim your gonna have very weak brownies. I use every last inch of my plants, when I finally have everything ready to go I will have 2-6gallon stainless steel pots roaring all day on the stove damn near full to the brim. Sure there may be a little bud in there but 99% of it is leaves and close trim. In which case to get ALL the goodies out of your product you dont want to do an hour cook.

Believe me I have said the same things, and given the same warnings about these edibles to others I gave them to. NOBODY has ever taken me seriously thinking the same thing 1l19 just said lol and they end up in the same position I was in, 18 hours of complete confusion, and not just me but EVERYONE who has ever tried even a 1/4 of my cookies. And I have tasted shitty edibles before, but mine never taste bad because of the amount of water I use.

If 1 hour floats your boat and you are unable to try a 6 hour cook thats fine, if you are using ONLY bud that would probably work. I have never used just bud for edibles, only trim.

If 95% of thc was on the outside why can I make a big batch of dry-ice hash, then take the leftover trim and make some crazy good edibles? I used to believe what Jorge Cervantes would tell me, as well as all the hooblah I would read on these websites. But when it comes down to it, I dont know why my method works so flawlessly every 3 months when I make my edibles, or why yours does to, but there is only one way to find out and if you got nothing to lose by cooking it longer you might as well, you might be very surprised with your results.

I gave up years ago asking MJ questions on any 1 of those many mj forums, and this is my conclusion: 99% of them havent even grown pot! They are just telling you what they heard from other people..

Mateox obviously you got some brains and that last statement was not ment for you in anyway, you know your shit I am not debating that. But I am debating the fact that you think 30-60 mins is enough. Maybe for bud, but not for all the leftover plants matter I work with. I am not lying when I have said I have made edibles under every parameter possible, I have tried many different cook times and had only diminished effects when cooked under 6 hours.

#16 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:29 AM

If 95% of thc was on the outside why can I make a big batch of dry-ice hash, then take the leftover trim and make some crazy good edibles?


Because your not getting all of the resin with out a solvent, shit is sticky man. Most of it freezes and breaks off, but not all of it. This is why you have to heavily adgitate ice water hash.

Leaves will have 10% the THC content of a bud, and stems will have around 1%

I only make edibles with trim these days, and the 20 people that woke up high the next day last weekend from my Christmas party say 1 hour is enough.

Not sure why we get such different results, I have gone longer in the past. I think (not specificy you Lodi) people mistake the body load from other cannabinoids (from long duration THC degrading) as 'more potent'... it all depends what people are looking for. My edibles don't make people fall asleep unwillingly, they make you staunchly red eyed and fucking high for the entire duration of the day.

#17 Lodi

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

I advise people to take 1/4 of a cookie at a time, and if they listen to me they have an experience much like your describing. But more than that and some people start to become "to stoned"

Well lets think about how many variables there are in this...How much your using, potency of trim, heat, temp, quality of water, quality of bud or trim, some strains have more trichs on the leaves or stems than others. I have grown one strain for 6 years now so I think I have it pretty well dialed in, and I have been using the same stuff for all my experiments. For an example, heat might play a big role depending on your strain, because trichs start vaping off the bud in my vape at around 340F but continue to about 375F and at that point my other cannibinoids start to be blended in with the THC.

I am curious as to how your getting such potent butter with such a short cook. I tend to do slow and steady the whole time, stirring very very often. One thing is this: With ayahuasca you get in what you get out. You are not supposed to leave your aya cooking unnattended because it is a bond your making with the plants while they cook.
So if I stand there for the better part of 8 hours stirring and toking, maybe make some tea on another burner or a meal. I listen to music and make a day out of it, I trully enjoy the whole process step by step. That coupled with using smaller amounts of trim might make better edibles. But unless your using a massive amount of trim for 1 stick of butter then that does not explain your very positive results.

I am def going to do another side by side next time, maybe I will make a tek out of it for botanicals. Either way my curiosity is spiked, thank you!

Much peace and love good luck with the cannabutter.

#18 mate0x

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

How much water to plant material (weight) do you use?

I use a huge volume of water compared to my plant matter. I get the plant matter soaked in the boiling water and stir the poop out of it. Then I toss in the sticks of butter and let them melt while I keep stirring. When I am not stirring I keep the lid on.

Trim is high quality, and intact, I don't even grind it - easier to strain and way less fine particles in the final product.

I have been recently doing 28 grams of trim per stick, but normal people can't even eat half a cookie - and I cut the butter with 50% normal butter in the recipe. So one stick would be 66 grams weed butter, 66 grams normal butter for example.

I made some personal rice krispie treats with straight butter, it's killer :D

#19 Aquavibe

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

....
I was mentioning specifically when working from fresh material you want to be sure to decarb, as a significant portion of the THC is still in the form of THCA.

If the weed is older than a few months, cured or in a brick, it is likely decarbed naturally over time.


I can confirm that this is true. I stopped smoking completely a couple years ago, but will never part ways with cannabis.
At first I was just making pills and they did nothing at all. Then I read about decarboxilatioin and started experimenting. These days I take an ounce at a time, grind it in the coffee maker, spread it flat on a cookie sheet and put if in the oven at 220. After about 6 minutes I turn the oven off and let it cool, after about 20 minutes I take it out. Then I make pills out of it. I have to cut it down with green tea or ground coffee beans or else it's too potent. I also mix coconut butter in with it because I read that it helps the stomach break it down - not sure if that's really true. If you ingest too much weed it really makes you feel shitty. It takes time to find the right amount so that you get buzzed without it hitting you too hard.

During a dry spell my man sold me a couple of ounces of old, stale shake that he had accumulated through time. I got it dirt cheap and I made pills out of it without cooking it - and guess what - it worked! That shake was over a year old and as dry as could be.. if you like smoking fresh bud, you wouldn't want to touch this stuff. IT would be just too gross to smoke. I made pills from it and it got me high every day for months and months!

#20 mate0x

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

When you get the THC into the fat (cooking oil, butter, what ever) it does enter your body easier and more efficiently, I would expect you to get higher faster.

Also, marijuana in the raw is hard to digest and would be much much easier on your stomach if you did some type of extraction. (Butter or what ever)

Glad to hear you still enjoy




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