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So are magic mushrooms actually poisonous?


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#1 Lodi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

I have always wondered that, I have heard facts from both sides of the fence. Sorry if this has been discussed, I couldnt find a thread on it.

If anyone knows, please give us some links or good facts about which kinds of magic mushrooms are in fact poisonous.

#2 MerryPrankster

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

Cubensis and other psilocibes are not poisonous. Psilocybin/Psilocin are very non-toxic. You would have to eat your bodyweight in magic mushrooms before you would experience toxic effects to your body. Any physical discomfort is usually from the chitin that makes up the outer walls of the mushroom. This can be hard to digest.

Aminita Muscaria (the ones with the red cap and white spots) is poisonous and has to be consumed carefully in order to avoid the toxic effects.
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#3 Lodi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

Do you have any links or proof of these statements?

#4 ethnobotanist420

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

Do you have any links or proof of these statements?


Here...

The toxicity of psilocybin is low. In rats, the median lethal dose (LD50) when administered orally is 280 milligrams per kilogram (mg/kg), approximately one and a half times that of caffeine. When administered intravenously in rabbits, psilocybin's LD50 is approximately 12.5 mg/kg.[62] Psilocybin comprises approximately 1% of the weight of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, and so nearly 1.7 kilograms (3.7 lb) of dried mushrooms, or 17 kilograms (37 lb) of fresh mushrooms, would be required for a 60-kilogram (130 lb) person to reach the 280 mg/kg LD50 value of rats.[45] Based on the results of animal studies, the lethal dose of psilocybin has been extrapolated to be 6 grams, 1000 times greater than the effective dose of 6 milligrams.[89] The Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances assigns psilocybin a relatively high therapeutic index of 641 (higher values correspond to a better safety profile); for comparison, the therapeutic indices of aspirin and nicotine are 199 and 21, respectively.[90]



http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Psilocybin

Want more? :thumbup:
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#5 Jimothy

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

Want more? :thumbup:


MSDS perhaps?

If swallowed: Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Rinse mouth with water.



#6 MycoDani

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

Rinse mouth with water huh (I'm stoned) is that from a fire hose.;)

Poison is relative really too much of anything will kill you. Ethno is right on about the toxicity of psilocybin and it is very similar to natural chemicals found in the body. So to me mushrooms are more similar than different making them non-poisionus imo.



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#7 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:29 PM

Psilocybin's toxicity level is around that of THC. Technically you can kill yourself by eating enough but in reality you will be vomiting like the fountains outside Caesar's Palace long before a toxic level in your blood stream is reached.

Edited by BuckarooBanzai, 22 February 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#8 warriorsoul

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:33 PM

That would depend on how you define poison.

There is no mathematical formula that will define a poison. Poison is a blanket term for anything that causes disturbances to organisms

If a child or unwitting adult eats magic mushroom and has a bad trip, they will suffer from psilocybe poisoning.

One person's poison is another person's medicine.
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#9 Lodi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:35 PM

Along with the magic alkaloids there are I would assume to be hundreds if not thousands of toxins and tannins in the mushroom itself. Mainly are there properties of certain magic mushrooms that would have poisonous effects?


And you could eat enough blueberries to kill you, I understand everything is poisonous at some level of toxicity. But there are antioxidants and enzymes in the blueberries which could be taken in virtually unlimited amounts without any real ill effect, while at the same time toxins which would make us seriously ill if eating say a 5gal buckets worth.


The majority of the world refers to magic mushrooms as being poisonous mushrooms :(

The real question I guess would be not how much psilocybin would it take to kill someone or overdose, but how much other toxins and tannins in the mushroom would it take, and are other toxins in the mushroom as safe as psilocybin?

I was never questioning the safety of psilocybin, it is done in enough medical studies and deemed safe enough. Plus its usage for 500,000 years (very rough estimate, most likely exageration)

#10 firerat

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:00 AM

The majority of the world refers to magic mushrooms as being poisonous mushrooms :(

There's a lot of people who believe LSD is made from cyanide, stores itself in the spine, and that x amount of trips make you insane. Doesn't make it so.

The real question I guess would be not how much psilocybin would it take to kill someone or overdose, but how much other toxins and tannins in the mushroom would it take, and are other toxins in the mushroom as safe as psilocybin?

I was never questioning the safety of psilocybin, it is done in enough medical studies and deemed safe enough. Plus its usage for 500,000 years (very rough estimate, most likely exageration)

Well in those 500,000 years of magic mushroom use has there ever been a documented case of said mushrooms actually poisoning someone? From tannins or other toxins? If so, I've yet to see one.
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#11 Windy

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:01 AM

Along with the magic alkaloids there are I would assume to be hundreds if not thousands of toxins and tannins in the mushroom itself. Mainly are there properties of certain magic mushrooms that would have poisonous effects?


And you could eat enough blueberries to kill you, I understand everything is poisonous at some level of toxicity. But there are antioxidants and enzymes in the blueberries which could be taken in virtually unlimited amounts without any real ill effect, while at the same time toxins which would make us seriously ill if eating say a 5gal buckets worth.


The majority of the world refers to magic mushrooms as being poisonous mushrooms :(

The real question I guess would be not how much psilocybin would it take to kill someone or overdose, but how much other toxins and tannins in the mushroom would it take, and are other toxins in the mushroom as safe as psilocybin?

I was never questioning the safety of psilocybin, it is done in enough medical studies and deemed safe enough. Plus its usage for 500,000 years (very rough estimate, most likely exageration)

This is like asking if coca cola is poisonous. Enough coca cola can be linked to death, a recent coroners report states this. But coca cola isn't poisonous, and in the same sense neither are magic mushies.

#12 MycoDani

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

It's a myth and now you know that Lodi. Just like you hear with other drugs some things just aren't true.
There is a chart that shows how much you need to die. The LD-50 shows how much of whatever substance you are taking is needed to actually kill yourself. Here is the chart for Psilocybin.

[attachment=1076273:292259.attach]

As you can see the dose is beyond high. I hope this helps clarify things for you.

~Dani

#13 Lodi

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

Awesome everyone, I am glad the general concensus says they are harmless.

Thank you! and sorry if that got any of you upset, I am not trying to prove or disprove anything with this thread. It is just easy for everyone on a forum about mushrooms to claim they are harmless, but not to many people actually know, just what they have heard.

I heard striknine (spelling) cyanide, rat poison, etc etc have all been in LSD. I believed that myself for quite a few years.

Again, it seems like a few of you are upset that I would ask this question, perhaps its because I asked on a site geared towards taking said mushrooms. But I assure you, it is simply for the purpous of spreading knowledge. Hopefully it will be some years before another one of these threads pops up, and until then all the people who find themselves surfing website after website reading that "even just a small amount of psilocybin can kill you or have serious health risks" can have a thread that makes them feel comfortable.

Even if all of you said they were in fact poisonous, I would still take them regardless LOL. Maybe just less than 7 grams or so to be safe right?

Thanks for the info everyone, I am sure a lot of people will benefit from this thread.

#14 wildedibles

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:09 AM

And you could eat enough blueberries to kill you, I understand everything is poisonous at some level of toxicity. But there are antioxidants and enzymes in the blueberries which could be taken in virtually unlimited amounts without any real ill effect, while at the same time toxins which would make us seriously ill if eating say a 5gal buckets worth.


If u ate that many blueberries u be on the pooper for a long time probably hurting pretty good ...

There are different poisons all are different saying poison is all one thing is sooo wrong

Toxic is something that low enough doses can kill you like one mushroom or one leaf kinda thing or the toxic dose could be so close to the medicinal dose it is too dangerous to even play with ....

....is different than posionous in general that could mean anything from an upset stomach dirhea or vomiting or heart issues etc....

mushroom field guides list lots of mushrooms as poisonous even magics ..... I find too that some people use the word toxic and poisonous interchangeably

my biggest warning on this subject is to be very careful and know what u are doing when collecting wild mushrooms because magic mushrooms eaten from the wild will not hurt you but if u mistaken them for a toxic mushroom instead this could kill you

Edited by wildedibles, 23 February 2013 - 11:15 AM.


#15 cheetolay

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

It's because of the english language I would call them poisonous. poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms,[1] usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism.

so, in other words, yes, magic mushrooms are poisonous, though not very likely to be lethal.

#16 Cambo

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

For general drug information I would suggest erowid.org .
They also deal with a lot of the myths surrounding drugs. If you don't want to believe erowid I suggest scholar.google.com
:)

No, "magic mushrooms", or more specifically psilocybe cubensis, do not contain any substances considered particularly toxic in the sense that they damage cells.

#17 wildedibles

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:33 AM

Erowid is great for that info ;) tried and tested ;)

I would also mention that some people having a bad trip or a 1st time trip get a sober buddy to watch them
Some bad things could happen freaking out alone

Really its a word thing my bro told me the only reason magic mushrooms are magic is cause they are poisonous
and we here know what real poisons are so we do not conciser magic poisonous
and to be poisoned getting some and not knowing or being able to plan for it (imagine tripping and not wanting too)or
a child eating a wild mushroom from the lawn

In 90% of the field guide's I have read blue staining mushrooms magics are poisonous cause they are trippy not cause they can kill you some warn against stomach upset

With the plants I have studied we use some if not all poisonous plants medicinally although there are a few that should never be played with cause they are toxic and desired dose and toxic doses are so close its not really worth it unless it is and that my friend is why these words really do not make sense even if we use the proper name rating scales of poisons

http://en.wikipedia....oisonous_plants
http://en.wikipedia....poisonous_fungi
really its all in your perception of this word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison

Its not just a yes or no answer ;)

its all in the wording ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin
and personal definitions of that name ;)

I have eaten some psilocybe cubensis knowingly and was not hurt
I did have too many stems one time with a lot of alcohol and felt poisoned bad hurty belly didnt move too much the next day but I am still here so kill u not likely upset belly maybe and ya alcohol can be poison too so can coffee etc...........................

Edited by wildedibles, 24 February 2013 - 06:11 AM.


#18 Skywa11ker

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:34 AM

Toxic yes poisons yes the Ld50 from mushies is close to you'r own weight so they can kill you but you would just have to be a nuf nuf to eat that much and more than likely lose your mind before you die...

#19 mate0x

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

Toxic yes poisons yes the Ld50 from mushies is close to you'r own weight so they can kill you but you would just have to be a nuf nuf to eat that much and more than likely lose your mind before you die...


No, and LD50 is a guess btw.... I DOUBT they can kill you at all. Of course, the impractical argument about eating your body weight in mushrooms - who can eat their body weight in anything.

LD50 also means only 50% of people would die from it. Rats are all well and good, but they have very different metabolisms due to their surface area to mass ratio.

the lethal dose of psilocybin has been extrapolated to be 6 grams


Get me 6 grams and I will eat it.

Unless you want to call Air, Water, Bread, Milk, Cheese, etc... poison.... then this is moot.

And if you got a body weight equivalent dose of just the compounds would it kills you then? Probably not, but it would fuck your brain chemistry...so under that ambiguous term....poison... maybe.

The researchers, Beung and Bigwood found through their TLC work that they could isolate 12 distinct spots(i.e. different compounds) on the silica gel plate. Besides psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin, their tentative conclusion is that the other spots represent N-methyl and tryptamine analogs of psilocin and psilocybin.(3) Another tryptamine found in mushrooms is tryptophan.(9) This will react with the test reagents with a similar color as psilocin and will consequently add a small amount of absorbance to any test result, giving a slightly false high reading.

The test which I used to quantify the amount of psilocybin and psilocin in the P. cubensis mushrooms reacts with other nitrogen containing compounds, although it is most sensitive to indole containing compounds when read at the prescribed wavelength.(l0) The common amino acid, glycine, is one such nitrogen containing compound found in abundance in the mushroom.(l8) Another nitrogen based compound which has been found in the mushroom is urea. The yellow color change of the test indicates the presence of one of these ubiquitous compounds. Luckily, yellow adds only a small amount of absorbance to the value of the active tryptamines when read at 570 nm, the test wavelength.(3)

Casale, in reviewing the literature, mentions that besides the compounds already mentioned, ergosterol, ergosteral peroxide and a,a-trehalose have also been found in the methanol extracts of the Psilocybe mushrooms.(5) I could find no other mention in the literature about other tryptamine analogs, toxins, enzymes or hormones which may be present in P. cubensis and thus affect one's subjective experience. Agurell, Blomkvist and Catalfomo (1) identified a lengthy list of possible tryptophan metabolites which might show up in the psilocybe mushrooms: 6hydroxytryptophan; kynurenine; tryptophan; kynurenic acid; xanthurenic acid; psilocin; tryptamine; methyltryptamine; dimethyltryptamine; 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid; anthranilic acid; N-acetyltryptophan; and indoleacetic acid. Agurell and Nilsson (2) demonstrated in their paper a tentative biosynthetic route for psilocybin for which any of the intermediates could exist in the mushroom, too. The synthetic pathway proceeds from tryptophan to tryptamine to N-methyltryptamine to N,N-dimethyltryptamine to psilocin to psilocybin.


http://www.erowid.or...rticle2-2.shtml

Edited by mate0x, 24 February 2013 - 09:19 AM.

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#20 wildedibles

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

Exactly the word game mate ;) Every thing could be a poison

The things that worry me about this mushroom are the deadly look a likes eating any wild mushroom you come across can be a deadly game read up b4 you start collecting your wild friends ;)

or losing ones mind due to tripping and doing something really stupid can be anything ...

or not telling the person they just ate something magic and them freak out cause they dont know what is happening

...this is the only way I would call this mushroom a poisonous mushroom

I usually do small doses of this mushroom a gram was my high dose for me and it was really cool :) but I knew what to be i had the heads up ;)

I hear people eat a lot more of this mushroom and have had a good / bad trip but had a good time I guess not poisoned

and the chem amount that can poison is totally different amount of whole mushroom the mushroom has a certian amount of chem within the mushroom




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