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Shine Laws


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#1 Uncle G

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:49 PM

I had until recently thought making shine was a federal charge in the USA. However, I went to pick up this girl a week back and there was place "making stills" with one sitting on the side of the road for advertisement. I asked her whats up with that. She proceeded to tell me a person can legally make personal moonshine up to like 50 gallon a year.

Now she was a sweet gal but she not brightest crayon in anyone's box. I am going to do some research. Heck I might go check out that place's stills and see.

#2 permafrying

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:02 AM

beer and wine is legal. freeze distillation is also legal (good for making a liqueur type drink). made some good ghetto rum doing that.

maybe they were selling em and advertising as water stills... loophole. like selling weed pipes as tobacco pipes

sorry man i got excited till i looked it up a little more lol. everything i had read said it was illegal but never really looked into it.

looks like you can only do it if you pay the government man. http://www.ttb.gov/f...enalcohol.shtml

#3 roscoe

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:05 AM

In my neck of the woods it is illegal to still shine but you can always still water or essential oils. If I'm not mistaken you can also get a license to still a certain amount of off highway fuel for farm equipment and such. So making, buying, and selling stills is perfectly legal. So is brewing beer, but combining the two hobbies is a crime??? stupid ass laws!

#4 Uncle G

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:15 AM

This was a good read. Dont know reputable the people are.

http://www.clawhamme...moonshine-legal

On the stills: I think they have to be registered. Or suppose to be. But according to above link dont have to be.

On the Whiskey: I think you have 3 different types of illegal actions. 1 is the making of it (which is state by state) 2 is transporting it (I guess is federal) and 3 is the sell of it (which I am guessing again is federal). I had read distilling was misdemeanor in my state. But then you hit the other 2.

I also read that in state of Tenn laws are changing rapidly there in favor of legalizing home distilling of whiskey. But you know just cause you read something on the internet doesnt make it true.

#5 permafrying

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:21 AM

This was a good read. Dont know reputable the people are.

http://www.clawhamme...moonshine-legal

On the stills: I think they have to be registered. Or suppose to be. But according to above link dont have to be.

On the Whiskey: I think you have 3 different types of illegal actions. 1 is the making of it (which is state by state) 2 is transporting it (I guess is federal) and 3 is the sell of it (which I am guessing again is federal). I had read distilling was misdemeanor in my state. But then you hit the other 2.

I also read that in state of Tenn laws are changing rapidly there in favor of legalizing home distilling of whiskey. But you know just cause you read something on the internet doesnt make it true.


the sale should be state law. atleast constitutionally the only way the feds can touch it is if its moving across states or being sold in another state (interstate commerce gives them jurisdiction). at the least itd be state enforced unless it was a major operation

#6 opiwave668

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:50 AM

no way feds put their finger in every ones biz reason you have to register is so they can make sure your paying the taxes on the booze you produce the 50 gal is for beer/wine/mead and its 50 per 18 year old adult 5 adults 250 gal
50 gals of good pure shine wow good luck drinking that to yourself over 1 gallon of ethanol a week before you water it out

ive looked it all up before if i remember right distilling water is legal but they still want you to register it

if your really worried get the fuel ethanol permit
otherwise i would say quit being a puss and get it if you want it
unless your ferming giant vats of wash/mash factory style no one will know unless you get the inflated ego and brag/give some away


lots of people would rather drink the finished wash than the actual shine
just craft distilling for personal use sounds fine by me

#7 stonestare

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:41 AM

In my state you can own a still no problem, the issue is when you use it. Now for what is what and when hit the ATF website, everything you need is right there. Of course state is needed but ATF is federal. Cross state line yes its a fed charge,and sell of it can be a state charge. Its all in the amount and what it is, wine shit who cares spirits well thats a whole dif ball game.I have heard not sure on this but having X amount of corn in of itself in some states is a crime reguardles if it is in a mash or not.It all boils down to unc getting his cut of the procedes and done in a maner that will not be detrimental to humans.

#8 opiwave668

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:28 AM

I've seen ads for home distilling equipment in catalogs ("turn wine into brandy," "make your own essential oils"). Is it legal to buy and use a still like that?


Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant (see earlier question). However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.


A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.


Back to top


S4: What requirements are there for people who sell stills?


Under regulations in part 29 of title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, TTB has the right to require manufacturers of stills to give us the name and address of each customer. If we choose to impose this requirement, we inform the manufacturer of the stills by letter.
Spirits





and i was wrong they cap it at 200 gal for beer

Edited by opiwave668, 22 June 2013 - 02:33 AM.

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#9 MrGumball

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:29 AM

Spirits

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying excise tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequateequipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailedrecords, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.


Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB'sapproval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.

From: http://www.ttb.gov/f...enalcohol.shtml

#10 TVCasualty

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:48 AM

Spirits

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying excise tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequateequipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailedrecords, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.


Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB'sapproval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.

From: http://www.ttb.gov/f...enalcohol.shtml



Or you can say fuck all that noise and go shopping for copper pipe and fittings and distill some fucking 'shine and call it done! (kind of like a lot of us are doing with cannabis... or mushrooms.... etc.) :reb:

Lots of good info about making "E85" here, and they sell plans for a very well-designed reflux still:http://running_on_al...od.com/id2.html

That site also goes into making the ethanol absolute (100%) using zeolite as a molecular sieve and absolute ethanol is handy for a lot of non-drinking uses so this isn't just about making liquor.

And then there's this helpful how-to PDF on Erowid: http://www.erowid.or...m/pdf/still.pdf


I've yet to corroborate it but I've heard tales that Prohibition in the U.S. was passed thanks to the helpful funding of Rockefeller. The Temperance movement would never had gotten an Amendment passed by themselves but with his backing it was a slam dunk. Apparently this was done because at the time most people were still living in rural/farm settings and every farm had a still used for making fuel, a bit of 'shine, and a solvent for cleaning, disinfecting wounds, etc. etc..

The fact that Prohibition lasted just long enough to get the population hooked on oil instead of ethanol by outlawing a piece of technology that promoted self-sufficiency in terms of energy in favor of the new centralized monopoly of oil makes this a compelling theory IMO. There might even be a connection to hemp in that most farms also grew some at the time and apparently hemp seed was a source of biomass for fermenting into alcohol so the complimentary bans on both alcohol and hemp worked spectacularly well for the bottom lines of two individuals (Rockefeller and Hearst) but royally screwed everyone else.

And they screwed us by appealing to (and manipulating) the majority's proclivity for self-righteousness, xenophobia and racism; alcohol was a "sin" and hemp suddenly became the terrifying drug known as "marijuana" or "reefer" that was used by Mexicans and jazz musicians who then immediately started lusting after your daughter. :loveeyes:

I don't know if that's how it really went, but it seems ridiculous enough to be true.
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#11 Uncle G

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

Its also amazing how women's suffrage is tied to prohibition. I think TV hit on few things. Distilling whiskey is closely tied to Revenue hence "Revenuers" and feds. And any law is only as good as the enforcement of it. Also as seen on ebay "stills" are for sale.

As far as the comparison of cannabis or mushrooms pretty sure you could a lot more time over shine than these in some states and if goes federal there is not much wiggle room with those guys but the prisons are nicer:thumbup:. Personally I just like knowing the laws. Knowledge is key. Best offense is a good defense.

#12 stonestare

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:35 AM

Unc you are so true, better know what your getting into before you get into it and realize holly shit I am in far deeper than should of been.I thik the hardest time is proboly in the smokey region its been a so called plauge there for seriously amount of years farther back than prohibition. From what litle history I know of alc supposedly people moved to the smokeys when the first liquoer tax was put in place and people have been making shine since.I am not going to say not do it,but its just like everything else the deeper you go the smarter you better be about every little ting you do.I have only had real shine 1 time in my life and it was HOT.It didnt have a flavor to it was like drinking water except it was a fireball when it hit the stomach.If you had a 10 or 20 gal still I bet that you could do your thing and noone would even know about it, if you did it right.The hardest part is the mash cooking other than that man would be easy to do it.

#13 Uncle G

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:43 AM

Unc you are so true, better know what your getting into before you get into it and realize holly shit I am in far deeper than should of been.I thik the hardest time is proboly in the smokey region its been a so called plauge there for seriously amount of years farther back than prohibition. From what litle history I know of alc supposedly people moved to the smokeys when the first liquoer tax was put in place and people have been making shine since.I am not going to say not do it,but its just like everything else the deeper you go the smarter you better be about every little ting you do.I have only had real shine 1 time in my life and it was HOT.It didnt have a flavor to it was like drinking water except it was a fireball when it hit the stomach.If you had a 10 or 20 gal still I bet that you could do your thing and noone would even know about it, if you did it right.The hardest part is the mash cooking other than that man would be easy to do it.


Mash is easy. Its the sitting on the still watching it drip for hours that noids me out.
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#14 Mrs.Hippie3

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:09 PM

... She proceeded to tell me a person can legally make personal moonshine up to like 50 gallon a year....


yes she is correct. my husband had a little personal still that made i believe a gallon at a time. the process took forever! the last batch he made i dont recall him telling me about so one day last year i was cleaning his little globe bar and i come across a Yukon Jack bottle that wasnt the right color so i opened it and took a whiff :eusa_eh: thats NOT water or yuckon jack! im not a drinker so i put it back on the bar and a few days later one of my friends mentioned moonshine and that little light bulb lit up in my head!!! :amazed: i have a fifth of at least 3 year old moonshine! my husbands very last batch! :teeth:

#15 stonestare

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:37 PM

Sitting on it for hours I am fine with , the smell of cornbread wafting through the air is what would noid me out.Anyone that has ever been around a unit running knows that smell.Mah that is awsome about your late husband shining, and you still have a fith of it. Tresure that baby I bet it just gets smoother with age. I am with you I lost my taste for alc but will gladly burn 1 with you any day of the week.

#16 bigjimmy

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:22 PM

This is a gallon (minus several shots) of Tennessee corn
liquor my Dad brought home over 30 years ago...yeah,
30 year old shine!

DSCN6760.JPG

Since I rarely imbibe anymore, it just sits up in a cupboard
getting older and older...

The few friends who have had a chance to try it invariably
comment first on it's amazing smoothness, and next on it's
amazing power...

My late father say's they used to call this stuff 'old block and tackle'.

"You have a drink, walk a block, and will tackle anyone". LOL

j

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#17 Uncle G

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:31 PM

This is a gallon (minus several shots) of Tennessee corn
liquor my Dad brought home over 30 years ago...yeah,
30 year old shine!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]311432[/ATTACH]

Since I rarely imbibe anymore, it just sits up in a cupboard
getting older and older...

The few friends who have had a chance to try it invariably
comment first on it's amazing smoothness, and next on it's
amazing power...

My late father say's they used to call this stuff 'old block and tackle'.

"You have a drink, walk a block, and will tackle anyone". LOL

j


Dang Jimmy your house is clean. :teeth: Pretty neat you have had it that long.

#18 Cerebral Cortex

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:43 PM

Don't sale it... You can make wine/beer, but don't sale it....

#19 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

Don't sale it... You can make wine/beer, but don't sale it....


Yup, I only buy commemorative mason jars. Each one commemorates the free quart of moonshine that came with it. :amazed:

#20 anticheffy

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:51 PM

Like most things, moderation is the key. Nobody actually gives a crap what you do in your own home. But when you sell it, thats when they get pissed, and you get busted.




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