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Moving Ropey Mycelium From Tub Walls To Agar/First Casing/Cluster Cloning/Redboy


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#1 hyphaenation

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

Many of you have seen it ... that beautiful , healthy mycelium fanning out on the wall of a tub.

mycair2.jpg

 

mycair1.jPG


Every time I see that kind of ropey mycelium I think to myself I should try and isolate it. My plan is to grab the tips of the hyphal fans and place them in agar. Observe how well the grow and transfer the healthiest of that to more agar , and then introduce grain , milk that and from there take it to a bulk grow. I mostly always go from multi-spore , just for the pure lazyness of it , but I'm curious to see if isolating aggressive mycelium and running with it to fruit makes any (or many) noticeable differences from my typical MS.

Just curious whether anyone else has tried this or has any comments.


Edited by Sidestreet, 04 September 2016 - 02:12 PM.
Re-inserted pics


#2 BPlusMe

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

Have yet to get into working with agar but Im really interested to see what kind of results you get here .

#3 hyphaenation

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

The plan is to isolate the mycelium and then do the stuff I do in this thread: (which was started with spores)

https://mycotopia.ne...super-inoc.html
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#4 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:47 PM

ive always wanted to grab some of that myc and put it on a plate, excellent thread hyph.

as to whether it will make a difference or not- it is still multispore fwiw. you would need to
isolate the divergent sectors on agar to really get a good iso. i would recommend waiting until
you see the first knots/pins and isolate one of those from the tub wall, that way you know
you have a fruiting substrain. some substrains will be rhizomorphic, but still fruit like shit.
(voice of experience on that one)

either way, best of vibes to ya buddy and subscribed!

#5 fungi2bwith

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:54 PM

ive always wanted to grab some of that myc and put it on a plate, excellent thread hyph.

as to whether it will make a difference or not- it is still multispore fwiw. you would need to
isolate the divergent sectors on agar to really get a good iso. i would recommend waiting until
you see the first knots/pins and isolate one of those from the tub wall, that way you know
you have a fruiting substrain. some substrains will be rhizomorphic, but still fruit like shit.
(voice of experience on that one)

either way, best of vibes to ya buddy and subscribed!



Exactly what I was thinking. If from multispore, and you get little to no fruits or pins or knots from the wall myc, then would it be worth isolating? And even if you did get knotting on the wall, they most likely won't reach their full potential, and there in lies a chance of poor fruit quality, i.e. size, potency, thickness. Just something to consider I suppose.

Is there a difference from isolating myc, and cloning tissue from a prime fruiting body to agar? I know the procedure differs slightly, but do the end results drastically vary?

A couple other things to consider, the higher risk of contams. And could you have achieved the same end results starting MS on agar in the first place? And possibly in a shorter amount of time.

Sounds like a great idea, was just curious as to how efficient a method it would be.

You gave me an idea from your redboy thread listed above, and sorry if its been mentioned before, but, wouldn't you get better, and quicker results cloning a prime fruiting body onto one of your milking jars, and expanding that? Basically the same thing you wanna do here, but with a proven sub strain. If I'm off on this, let me know. That's why I asked whether the end goal between isolating myc, and cloning a fruit was different.

Edited by fungi2bwith, 08 July 2013 - 10:36 PM.
Gave it more thought


#6 hyphaenation

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

Thanks for the insights.

Think I will wait, grab a few nice clones and then grow them out ... And then do what I wanted to do above & compare a few isolates. I'd especially like to clone material from a fat cluster.

Edited by hyphaenation, 08 July 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#7 Uncle G

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:27 PM

I grab some of that once put it on agar and it wasnt much pumpkin. Could of been the agar.

#8 Dick Paradise

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:33 PM

ive always wanted to grab some of that myc and put it on a plate, excellent thread hyph.

as to whether it will make a difference or not- it is still multispore fwiw.



I would agrue that if you grab a single strand from the top it would not be multi spore. I'd be very interested to see the growth though, mycelium that climbs the walls must be very aggressive by nature.

Then again there is no guarantees that it will be a prolific fruiter, but you never know rolling the dice.

#9 hyphaenation

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:10 PM

You gave me an idea from your redboy thread listed above, and sorry if its been mentioned before, but, wouldn't you get better, and quicker results cloning a prime fruiting body onto one of your milking jars, and expanding that? Basically the same thing you wanna do here, but with a proven sub strain. If I'm off on this, let me know. That's why I asked whether the end goal between isolating myc, and cloning a fruit was different.


Originally I started those jars with spores , but as you mentioned , had I started with clone material it would be the way to go. When I saw some hyphal-fans in n the tub walls, it started me wondering if a piece of the tip run on agar and then transferred to grow out would be any different/better than previous MS.

It would be interesting to see MS , clone and mycelium isolates side by side, or at least documented and compared to see which consistently has the best yield.

I'm so lazy/busy that I won't likely get around to comparing all of them at the same time any time soon, but I will try them one by one over time. I have some good bulk tubs going so I'll have lots of cloning candidates hopefully.

Edited by hyphaenation, 08 July 2013 - 11:26 PM.


#10 Uncle G

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:37 PM

I would agrue that if you grab a single strand from the top it would not be multi spore. I'd be very interested to see the growth though, mycelium that climbs the walls must be very aggressive by nature.

Then again there is no guarantees that it will be a prolific fruiter, but you never know rolling the dice.


Yeah try just grabbing one of those strans. Not as easy as it looks. Those pieces are fragile and not on agar.

#11 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:44 PM

Thanks for the insights.

Think I will wait, grab a few nice clones and then grow them out ... And then do what I wanted to do above & compare a few isolates. I'd especially like to clone material from a fat cluster.


Clones have, IME, been the most efficient way to up yields with respect to time. Isolating on agar is a
lengthy process requiring several months if you want to really do it right. It also requires a very rigorous
labeling and testing routing than can become tedious for the home cultivator. Isolations have not even
yielded as much as clones IME.

Here's a shot of a cluster from a clone. Over 12 oz dry from the first flush using only 4 quarts of wbs as
spawn, 10 gallon tote. Full sized dinner plate. Well over an elbow dry from 3 flushes.
192460d1286677105-outdoor-2010-kscluster2.jpg

I would agrue that if you grab a single strand from the top it would not be multi spore. I'd be very interested to see the growth though, mycelium that climbs the walls must be very aggressive by nature.

Then again there is no guarantees that it will be a prolific fruiter, but you never know rolling the dice.


Tell me how that would not be multispore? There is no isolation no matter how "aggressive" (I think you mean
rhizomorphic) it appears to the eye. No isolation = multispore. Even a clone does not meet the definition of an
isolate. Put a clone on a plate and see how many sectors you get. Take those sectors and isolate them until you
see no more sectoring, then you havean isolate. Knowing the definitions of terms and applying them properly
will give you a better understanding of the science behind the actions.

#12 fungi2bwith

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

I think I'm a lil confused. What is the objective of isolating exactly? Is it to basically get a stable sub-strain? And if so, why does that process work to get solid genetics, and cloning from a fruit doesn't?

#13 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

I think I'm a lil confused. What is the objective of isolating exactly? Is it to basically get a stable sub-strain? And if so, why does that process work to get solid genetics, and not cloning from a fruit?


The objective of isolating is to find the fastest flushing, highest yielding substrain so that you can bang out
maximum biological efficiency in the smallest time frame. Doing that lets you get more projects into a given
grow space in a (say a years) time frame, greatly increasing your overall yield in that time frame. Cloning can
accomplish the same objective with a group of substrains that work well with each other. Both work, but
cloning is a lot more space efficient because you don't have to start a petri and transfer it progressively to
hundreds of petris, which get transferred to hundreds of jars, which make hundreds of substrates for something
that is still untested. Cloning bypasses the "testing" phase and just gets genetics that work in your conditions.

I got the best genetics from a clone. I could do a g2g transfer and have quarts colonized in 4-5 days, and that
was stretching one jar of WBS to 20+ jars of corn. I've never had an isolate run faster than 4-5 days, I have
had them run in the same time frame, but never actually faster.
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#14 hyphaenation

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:43 AM

I changed the confusing title from isolating to moving mycelium , because its closer to what I actually meant.

#15 Solipsis

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:47 AM

Oh man, "rope-a-dope" in soo many ways :special:

#16 Mateo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

Trying to get an isolate or clone can up the yields quite a bit.
Trying to put a ropy strand of mycelia on agar that you take from the tub side is a good way but the chanses of contam are bigger than if you take mycelium from within the substrate of trying to clone a tissue sample.
You will not get a single isolate though, if you aren't very lucky.
Even if cloning a tissue sample from within a mushroom you are not sure to get a monostrain.
I have cloned mushroom tissue and got more than one strains clearly visible on agar.
You maybe have a 50% chance of getting a single isolate if cloning a mushroom by tissue.

But cloning a mushroom will be very good anyway as even if you get 2 or 3 different strains the most dominant one will probably colonize almost all of your things you inoculate with it.
But if you want a pure monostrain you must go with agar and isolate until only one monostrain remains.
But working with agar is easy and fun i think so try it.

Mateo

#17 hyphaenation

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

Thanks for the comments.

I'm pretty happy with the Redboy as it is, and not really trying to get a sub-strain per say. Just seeing if I can speed it up trough use of aggressive mycelium and possibly get it to consistently cluster a bit better. If through cloning or mycelium running it ends up just the same as it was, i'd still be happy.

One thing about the Redboy is it always throws pins early, often just before the sub is entirely colonizized. I was wondering if I was to clone the biggest specimin from the earliest pins... Would that possibly translate into like-wise earliest-pinning traits in the next run of that clone ? Would a clone-chunk of a very fat cluster possibly lead to more clustering in the next run?

Edited by hyphaenation, 09 July 2013 - 12:38 PM.


#18 roscoe

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Would that possibly translate into like-wise earliest-pinning traits in the next run of that clone ? Would a clone-chunk of a very fat cluster possibly lead to more clustering in the next run?


From my experience, yes. Cloning early fruiters seemed to always lead to fast colonization and early fruiting. Same with cloning big clusters typically leading to many more clusters from one sub.

#19 Mateo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

Thanks for the comments.

I'm pretty happy with the Redboy as it is, and not really trying to get a sub-strain per say. Just seeing if I can speed it up trough use of aggressive mycelium and possibly get it to consistently cluster a bit better. If through cloning or mycelium running it ends up just the same as it was, i'd still be happy.

One thing about the Redboy is it always throws pins early, often just before the sub is entirely colonizized. I was wondering if I was to clone the biggest specimin from the earliest pins... Would that possibly translate into like-wise earliest-pinning traits in the next run of that clone ? Would a clone-chunk of a very fat cluster possibly lead to more clustering in the next run?


I was wondering, when you get pins before the substrate is fully colonized, do you keep the substrate in darkness when colonizing?
If not, it can help to try to get you to decide when to start the fruiting sequence.
If it start pinning in darkness, it must me a very fruiting willing variety.

#20 hyphaenation

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

In the dark , yes, and across various grow-mediums. Just seems like a trait of RB. Can make for uneven first flush if there's to many, but I just pick carefully. Seems like as soon as there's a flush and you pick, the next pins are already forming.




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