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Yellow San Pedro


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#21 DualWieldRake

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:50 PM

While i appreciate you wanting to look out for invisilibysyndrome's plants, you are wrong

If you disagree i'd be interested to see where you got your information from.

 

In all studies i've read cacti respond well to proper nitrogen feeding, certainly you will deprive them of nutrients using the 2-7-7 ratio that you bring up.

Otherwise, no studies i've seen ever mentioned cacti prefering low nitrogen.

 

Internet pages all do advise low nitrogen i agree, but this is just baseless copy paste

 

Nitrogen burn is actually fertilizer burn and it's from osmotic stress by overfertilizing

Using manure or urea can cause nitrogen burn, with the ammonia gasses or whatever (a chemist would have to give you the full story), this is not something associated with plant food afaik

And also decomposing matter can literraly heat up the soil

 

Some reasons for using low nitrogen would be in certain seasonal crops to optimize on harvest on certain parts of the plant.

 

Another reason could be so the plant doesn't get to tasty and nutrious for pests, causing accelerated population growth

As your cactus is (assumingly) beeing supervised i would say the more effective way is to manage pest populations yourself


Edited by DualWieldRake, 01 April 2018 - 11:10 PM.


#22 Skywatcher

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:40 AM

While i appreciate you wanting to look out for invisilibysyndrome's plants, you are wrong

If you disagree i'd be interested to see where you got your information from.

I am not "Wrong" Mr. Rake, I am being cautious since I do not know the specifics of the environment where the cactus live, in ground, or in pots, and my advice will gently boost the growth without the risk of over feeding.

Proper soil for cactus is organic poor, and mostly inorganic material.

 

If you know what you are doing, you can use a higher nitrogen ratio (7-10) in a very diluted form, early in the growing season only. Organic ferts like worm castings are also reasonably safe in light application.  I will give you that.

However, your statement of "any old fertilizer" leaves no restrictions, or additional cautions. So you think I could use my "Super grow, 15 -20- 30 full strength on my peyote's? Maybe pour steer manure on the top 2 inches?

 

Unlike you, I will take full responsibility for any and all of my advice, as I do care about the well being of all the members plants, and I have been growing cactus for over 40 years and made quite a few mistakes along the way. I give advice based on my personal experience and accumulated knowledge, with the benefit of not wanting anyone repeating what I have learned had poor or catastrophic results.

 

Do you personally grow cactus (with any success) or have any concern for the repercussions of what you advise? Is the commentary here based on experience, or are you as well doing a regurgitation of read material with no hands on trial? As you yourself stated,

"Internet pages all do advise low nitrogen i agree, but this is just baseless copy paste"

 

Why do you consider this "Baseless" ? You ask me to quote sources, does my own experience count?

I do, very much care to see people here, including you, be successful with their grows. 

 

Using a higher nitrogen content is quick burst, followed by a crash and vulnerability. Cactus in their native environments have low organic content in the soil, and nitrogen poor soil. As a result, they are for the most part slower growers, yet able to withstand long periods of stress. I will agree that someone with experience can use a higher nitrogen fert on cactus if it is properly diluted and used only with a set of safe parameters, and some very specific circumstances.

 

My intent here Mr. Rake, is not to be belittling, but to point out the need for far more elaboration than what you provided, and an attitude of personal investment in the results of any advice you care to share.

 

Here is some interesting reading on nitrogen and cactus

 


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#23 DualWieldRake

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:57 PM

Do you even care to read the links you post?

 

The shaman australis link tells you how high N works

1 is unbased copy paste

The other doesn't even have anything to do with plants..

 

I use 4-3-4 on my yotes

 

Im calling it unbased cause you are making a pretty strong statement about it beeing bad, yet have nothing to back that claim up

 

There is enough research done showing how cacti in their natural habitat thrive when N is raised to levels found in your all purpose plant food.

 

Not sure what you have been doing wrong to get less than optimal results

 

This crash when feeding high N you are talking about, this is not true at all, where do you get this information?

 

@Skywatcher

 

I guess you mean well. Right information can be pretty hard to find on these internets nowadays


Edited by DualWieldRake, 02 April 2018 - 11:21 PM.


#24 Skywatcher

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:14 AM

Good morning @DualWieldRake

I put the Shaman Australis link there, to show you I do consider your statements, and found something to support your position. That link also discussed the problems that came afterward, and if you read it, then you know the experimentation was specific for Trichs and did have issues in the aftermath. Trichs are a very tolerant cactus, not picky about soil, and can take a stronger amount of Nitrogen. They are a single family of cactus, and what works for them connot be assumed to work for all others. I would not consider a 4-3-4 ratio excessively high in Nitrogen for yotes, and when they are fed is also an important piece of information as I would never feed that ratio in the fall before going into dormancy.

 

As I said, I base my advise on what I have personally done, and seen results for myself more than any published information. My issue with your original statement is that you simply cannot advise to use "any" ferts you have on hand. The dialogue you have followed with had a lot more specifics. If you had stated originally that a higher nitrogen content could be used on Trichs, (not any cactus) , limited it to a reasonable number within a safe parameter when you do not know the specifics of the growing conditions, or been more specific at all, I would not have felt a need to jump in before someone read that and figured they could safely use a 20 or even higher on a valuable specimen with no risk.

 

I have no problem with experimental or unconventional procedure, I simply want you to consider all the possibilities of interpretation and risk, and be more specific before you give a wide open, generalized piece of advise. Try to think of the ways  someone could misinterpret and clarify.

 

I care about peoples success, and I guess I want you to do the same. .................................


Edited by Skywatcher, 03 April 2018 - 09:15 AM.

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#25 adrian118

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 10:06 PM

Ok, so reporting back on my 'yellow pedro' ...

 

I kept in inside most hours of the day for about a week, giving a couple hours of sunrise light before work. Id say about 2 hours of sun, sunrise to 9am. Then back inside near a window the rest of the day until next morning. After a 4-5 days I saw color and firmness bounce back and all was good. So, after checking soil moisture with the thing that does that that you buy from the gardening store I saw that the soil was not moist and then left it out from sun up until the end of the day, on an east facing balcony, where it got full sun from sunrise - maybe 11am.... all was good.

 

THEN, I decide to try these guys out on said balcony on a 24/7 stint. Place them out side at sunrise... leave them out all day and through the night. Next morning, all is good.

 

Come home that evening, 7pm, same yellow coloration and slightly squishy.

 

This has got to be due to the sun exposure has it not? What other variable am I missing?

 

If it is that they want to stay inside or in indirect sun that is fine but i was of the understanding that this yellow color was due to possible overwatering or sunburn. But doesn't sunburn scar the plant?

 

Anyway, those are my observations. Still learning.


Edited by adrian118, 06 April 2018 - 10:09 PM.


#26 Skywatcher

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 11:02 PM

Try a slower acclimation.

Start with morning sun and then partial shade the rest of the day. Build up the light exposure over weeks instead of days. The cactus is tough, but does not appreciate rapid changes.

I see even my big Trichs seem to have better coloration with some broken shade in the afternoon all year.


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#27 adrian118

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:55 PM

You're right Skye, too much too fast.

 

They are already looking good again. Lets see if I can exercise some patience this time and get them happy outside.


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