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Cold fermentation: An alternative for heat straw pasteurization


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#21 Seeker2be

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

Sorry  .  I used colonized wheat that I received from a relocating Mormon friend.  Grain contained in big tins sealed with CO2 20 years ago!!!!!  More than you wanted to know I'll bet



#22 Seeker2be

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:31 AM

This is a great tek for not having to boil substrate and all the mess and hassle that that hot pasteurization entails.


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#23 mattyfresh

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:54 AM

You are right this could solve a lot of hassles of pasturizing hay, it contams so easy.

#24 Seeker2be

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:17 AM

Day 5 of Cold pasturizationColonization . No contams

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#25 hyphaenation

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:49 PM

This is just an opinion ... take with large grains off salt, but with Cubensis and straw , it can be an issue when the long pieces of straw jag out and up the sides. Those pieces often dry out and/or become contam vectors. With Oysters they are so tenacious and quick its not as much an issue.  I put my straw through a shredder vac and so it is in small chunks that can't ride up.

 

Not saying you should change anything or be concerned... just making myco-conversation.

 

Looking good.



#26 Seeker2be

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:42 PM

Hyphaenation: Your critique is much appreciated.  If I have learned anything in the last year it is that the little things like you mentioned really matter.  It is the little things that make the difference between failure and success .  I will make the changes next time if I fail. That is what it is about: incremental improvement.


Edited by Seeker2be, 13 February 2014 - 08:43 PM.


#27 hyphaenation

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:02 PM

Also wanted to say ... epic thread ! You more than look like you have an angle on it. I'm just the peanut gallery.

 

Very cool topic. Archive-bound I bet.


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#28 VoodooGarden

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:06 PM

Wow. This is kinda revolutionary.

Edit. You know.... If it plays ball in the late innings.

Edited by VoodooGarden, 13 February 2014 - 10:07 PM.


#29 Seeker2be

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:44 PM

I also  think this has  quantum leap potential as far as cultivation is concerned. I will know in 1 week when I case the cubes and see how the oysters grow.  Pictures will follow . Stay tuned


Edited by Seeker2be, 13 February 2014 - 10:46 PM.

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#30 Juthro

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:55 PM

Very cool, I am pulling up a chair, and wishing you luck.



#31 Cue

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

I wonder if anyone is paying attention to this?

It doesn't matter as long as we are and he keeps posting his "incremental improvements".

 

I've been watching and learning since the beginning. I have just not had anything to add until now.

Hyphe is right about the straw and mulcher. Once you have tried other methods nothing IMHO beats a leaf blower/vacuum mulcher that with a bag. Mine is damn well worth the $40 that I spent. If you get one make sure it has metal blades. I run my straw through 3-5 times until I get it to where I want it. Mine shreds hpoo perfect on the first run.


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#32 KaptinKulture

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

I could not live with out my Leaf blower/Mulcher.  It is my go to tool for bulk runs.


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#33 Seeker2be

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:48 AM

Fellow Topians: I appreciate all your suggestions and critiques more than you know.. As a relative newcomer I realize it is the little things that make the difference in success or failure in this hobby-lifestyle.:The correct ratios between spawn and substrate to avoid contams (the race), the many reasons for boiling grain (to kill off the contams and to steam off the surface moistures), using an alcohol spray bottle inside a glove box, maintaining  your hot agar bottle horizontal continually to prevent contams entering,, making the straw small enough by using a vacuum mulcher to prevent contams, or marking the tyvek with a marks a lot to note the holes beneath for easy injection, and finally self healing injection ports and airport (Thanks hippie3, though I did not know you your knowledge seeps into my brain and enthusiasm into my heart daily).   And there is so much more little things taught here that matter.  I think that doing the cold pasteurization tek makes me realize there are still nuances to be learned and shared on this site.  Just an opinion and you can criticize it if you like but as I look at the daily topics other than newbies coming in asking basic questions the site has wandered away from social mycology and sharing to an emphasis on socialization blogging and other nonsense but I guess to each their own.  One has to separate the wheat (or rye) from the chaff (or learn how to develop a tek for it.)  I hope that this important tek does not get lost in this site.  It is sooooo important.   Thank you for all you share.  Yes yes yes Cue so true : INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS!!!!!! That summarizes the Quest.   I'm on it.  Listening hard and thinking harder


Edited by Seeker2be, 15 February 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#34 Cue

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:14 AM

  I think that doing the cold pasteurization tek makes me realize there are still nuances to be learned

Now you are sounding like a new age grower. We expect more in the new age.

 

 

Just an opinion and you can criticize it if you like but as I look at the daily topics other than newbies coming in asking basic questions the site has wandered away from social mycology and sharing to an emphasis on socialization blogging and other nonsense but I guess to each their own.

You have to have fun in life. If I didn't think this site and hobby were fun, then I'd find a new site and a new hobby.

Plus, the  2 best professors I ever had used comedy to keep the class paying attention. Hell if you didn't pay attention you may miss a punch line, then wonder why the rest of the class was laughing.

This where I see the value of a little non-sense.


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#35 Seeker2be

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:38 AM

You are so right Cue, a balance between humor and teks.  It is hard enough to sift through the knowledge and past teks on this site to stimulate me not exactly to copy but to innovate.  It is not like mycotopia is a book with an index and table of content organized for easy research.  I guess I am like many others: In my environ I have no one to commiserate with my failures or celebrate my successes. No mycology society or club here in the desert.  When I start talking about my mycological musings I believe people think I am from area 51. I am grateful beyond commentary that this site exists. As Stamets says: Failure is the price of tuition I must pay for knowledge gained.


Edited by Seeker2be, 15 February 2014 - 11:39 AM.

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#36 VoodooGarden

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:25 PM

I am closely following this thread.

@ Cue ... I just noticed this theme of yours... The New-Age Grower... You're right, you know? You got it. It's the open-minded-ness and willingness to be surprised, I think. I don't know that I am one but I agree with the philosophy.

@Seeker2be. You're an alien. You just happen to be from Earth. ;)
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#37 Seeker2be

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:49 AM

Too funny Voo doo  :Nanu  Nanu.   Anyway had lunch with my youngest today and told him about this tek and others I am working on. He said what would happen if you put the straw with water in an airtight bag and vacuumed out all the airlet it sit for a week so you could work with less water and in a tighter space? instead of water barrel or would it off gas and  inflate the bag or what? Another perturbation of the tek on the drawing board.  Any thoughts?



#38 Cue

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 05:54 AM

Too funny Voo doo  :Nanu  Nanu.   Anyway had lunch with my youngest today and told him about this tek and others I am working on. He said what would happen if you put the straw with water in an airtight bag and vacuumed out all the airlet it sit for a week so you could work with less water and in a tighter space? instead of water barrel or would it off gas and  inflate the bag or what? Another perturbation of the tek on the drawing board.  Any thoughts?

I don't like that idea, due to anaerobic bacteria. You really want bacteria that likes oxygen. If anything I would aerate the water. Kind of like why compost is turned. Plus the nitrogen in the air from the aeration would help the biological nitrogen fixation. If you follow the threads here you see where I've been posting my research on the importance of the symbiosis between fungi and bacteria, especially when it comes to nitrogen.  


Edited by Cue, 16 February 2014 - 06:14 AM.


#39 roscoe

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:43 AM

 

I don't like that idea, due to anaerobic bacteria. You really want bacteria that likes oxygen.

 

Actually the bacteria that we are after here are in the genus Lactobacillus which are anaerobes.  Which means they will thrive in an oxygen free environment.

 

As a result of their metabolic process Lactobacillus produce large amounts of CO2, so the bag would have to be able to expand and not become so full it pops. 


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#40 Seeker2be

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

According to the theory esposed by Peter Mc Coy for cold fermentation:  Submerging the pillow case in water for 7 to 10 days allows the anaerobes (fermenters to flourish eating the aerobes and then when the pillow case is brought out to hang and drip dry all of the anaerobes die and the smell also is outgassed.  I was just thinking by doing the process in a vacuumed out bag those that have limited space might take advantage of the tek on a smaller scale. Anaerobic fermentation  is all bad?  I am not sure but aren't some of the primery bacterial organisms that Sandor Katz describes in his book Wild Fermentation perhaps anaerobes?  I may have this wrong.  






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