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The Super Rich are mad as hell.. and doing great!


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#41 wildedibles

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:18 AM

My family came here to Canada long long ago I was told we were kicked out of Europe it might have been a time of religious persecution ?? been here along time and any red mans battle is a battle I stand for I support my Native friends the best I can and I will stand with them if need be

 

I think it is sick what has happened to them but it is not the general public that is doing this to you anymore bud

 

there is a line being drawn between us in so many ways and it shouldnt be it should be drawn between us and the gov or the 1%ers not between us

See this is what the gov really doesnt want us white man and red man to be friends cause they be totally screwed in numbers so lets make them fight with each other driving a wedge between us so we cannot fight together

 

It is really hard now a days for any native to trust I understand this all too well ...one of my good friends is native and she almost kocked me out a few times just being confused about what I really want and that was her friendship she didnt trust me for a long time

 

suicide is up in your people I see it counseled a young girl with no mom cause she killed herself when this girl was 2 these women have led a hell of a life and are tuff as hell if you help them and help them see the right direction to be throwing this anger at and it shouldnt be the ones that will hold your hand when u r firing back!! U might not think u need it but I clearly see you do need help .... if the majority stand together what can they do?

 

I am fighting for the poor in silent ways not by standing out somewhere with a sign cause that do not work anymore where is Occupy wall street people? they were homeless some of them where did they go when winter hit? that is quiet?

 

I am sending letters out of peoples sad story's to the government officials I dont know if it will do any good but I was told to send it to the primer the Representative in the area and the new politicians waiting for their time in line ;)

 

Hydro, Food, Gas is all up and our pay goes up a tiny bit every year not enough to cover it and our pay has been cut back in other ways we do  not get a winter clothing allowance the money we get every 2 years for an appliance like a fridge or stove is gone or wood heat

and this is the coldest year I can ever remember  

 

Some people dont even want me to stand for them " no I wouldnt be  going on like that you be left with nothing at all if u keep talking like you r dont say anything for me I would rather suffer in silence than be threatened and have all my hand out taken away"

 

I think most people r afraid to talk we were actually threatened that in previous years the hand out pay has gone down!! it can again!! well I will tell you everything is doubling and our pay if it ever goes down wild will get wild !! I already told them if I loose my house over this I will take a tent to the hill


Edited by wildedibles, 06 February 2014 - 05:22 AM.

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#42 1967FordTitus

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:05 AM

Boobies!? Where? I love breasteses! Little breasteses, big breasteses, lopsided breasteses....

Edited by 1967FordTitus, 06 February 2014 - 08:16 AM.

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#43 pharmer

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:47 AM

We can all agree on boobies


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#44 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:18 AM

Just can't get down from that race and class soapbox? Race and class are just one more, albeit biggest and most often used, Dividers mentioned above.

 

It's about who has the power and who is challenging those with power. Those with power will use it, every time, to put down those who challenge THEIR power.

 

If religion is the opiate of the masses - Power is the shake and bake methamphetamine of the Elected.

 

I definitely think racial divisions are red herrings, which I'd hoped was clear in my posts. However, class divisions are an actual, non-abstract problem contributing to the rapidly-declining status quo as you yourself acknowledge in the second line of your reply, ironically enough. "Who has the power" is just another way of saying "ruling class." Any every culture has their version of Untouchables (and I don't mean Eliot Ness and his crew).

 

I'm still waiting to hear about how Capitalism, Communism, Corporatism (aka Fascism, according to Mussolini), or any theoretical looks-good-on-paper "ism" will save us from ourselves (or rather from our appetites, as it were). Or why people deserve to profit so much from lending us money they created out of thin air thanks to the financial voodoo of fractional-reserve banking. If you deposit $100 in my bank and I in turn make a loan of $1000 based on the "security" of your $100 cash deposit (and a 10% fractional reserve is very generous; the reality is somewhere around 2-4%), am I risking $100 of your money or $1000 of no one's?

 

The interest I'd charge someone for my loan would be based on my risking $1000 even though that money never really existed until the law allowed me to create it based on the amount of deposits made by other customers. So essentially nothing I've done has contributed to anything tangible beyond my acting as a pseudo-alchemical middle-man (to hell with turning lead into gold; the real trick is turning a few scant nuggets of gold into enormous ingots; not even nuclear chemistry can create mass from nothing, but it can be used to turn lead atoms into gold atoms so modern banking is arguably more mystical than ancient alchemy).

 

Runs on banks are so scary (to some) because all it would conceivably require to collapse our financial system is ~4% of savings/checking account holders closing their accounts. FDIC insurance is really about boosting confidence in banks so runs don't happen. Of course if a run of over 4% did actually happen the law would have to be changed immediately and we'd have to become a 0% reserve economy (which would mean it'd literally be based on nothing, except large stacks of IOUs, I suppose). And once those IOUs could no longer be exchanged for shelter, water, and food then the people left holding them will march on the Capitol like the WWI vets did and after a while they'd be run out with tear gas and batons yet again and this cycle will repeat until Economics no longer resembles cancer, the human population on Earth drops precipitously (making economics moot), or we cross a critical resource threshold and erupt in survival-panic chaos.


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#45 3S1

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:30 AM

 

Just can't get down from that race and class soapbox? Race and class are just one more, albeit biggest and most often used, Dividers mentioned above.

 

It's about who has the power and who is challenging those with power. Those with power will use it, every time, to put down those who challenge THEIR power.

 

If religion is the opiate of the masses - Power is the shake and bake methamphetamine of the Elected.

 

I definitely think racial divisions are red herrings, which I'd hoped was clear in my posts. However, class divisions are an actual, non-abstract problem contributing to the rapidly-declining status quo as you yourself acknowledge in the second line of your reply, ironically enough. "Who has the power" is just another way of saying "ruling class." Any every culture has their version of Untouchables (and I don't mean Eliot Ness and his crew).

 

I'm still waiting to hear about how Capitalism, Communism, Corporatism (aka Fascism, according to Mussolini), or any theoretical looks-good-on-paper "ism" will save us from ourselves (or rather from our appetites, as it were). Or why people deserve to profit so much from lending us money they created out of thin air thanks to the financial voodoo of fractional-reserve banking. If you deposit $100 in my bank and I in turn make a loan of $1000 based on the "security" of your $100 cash deposit (and a 10% fractional reserve is very generous; the reality is somewhere around 2-4%), am I risking $100 of your money or $1000 of no one's?

 

The interest I'd charge someone for my loan would be based on my risking $1000 even though that money never really existed until the law allowed me to create it based on the amount of deposits made by other customers. So essentially nothing I've done has contributed to anything tangible beyond my acting as a pseudo-alchemical middle-man (to hell with turning lead into gold; the real trick is turning a few scant nuggets of gold into enormous ingots; not even nuclear chemistry can create mass from nothing, but it can be used to turn lead atoms into gold atoms so modern banking is arguably more mystical than ancient alchemy).

 

Runs on banks are so scary (to some) because all it would conceivably require to collapse our financial system is ~4% of savings/checking account holders closing their accounts. FDIC insurance is really about boosting confidence in banks so runs don't happen. Of course if a run of over 4% did actually happen the law would have to be changed immediately and we'd have to become a 0% reserve economy (which would mean it'd literally be based on nothing, except large stacks of IOUs, I suppose). And once those IOUs could no longer be exchanged for shelter, water, and food then the people left holding them will march on the Capitol like the WWI vets did and after a while they'd be run out with tear gas and batons yet again and this cycle will repeat until Economics no longer resembles cancer, the human population on Earth drops precipitously (making economics moot), or we cross a critical resource threshold and erupt in survival-panic chaos.

 

TVC, I have literally been reading you for a few years and you never cease in insightfulness and passion. I do not have your eloquence, however, i do agree; the classes need merging. People tend to forget where they come from...

 

I can't believe theres a rich cunt who can (if he chooses) eat steak every night for the rest of his life bitching about taxes... It boggles! Where the fuck does he get off?? I sincerely hope he gets mugged on a night 'slumming' and ends up wandering the city penniless for a day......


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#46 pharmer

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

TV,

 

you are not hearing me every time I try to draw a clear distinction between genuine capitalism and that which is called capitalism by the fully corrupt corporate pirates in bed with the fully corrupt politicians at every level of government. and that appears to be the definition you are comfortable with.

 

mine is a  straightforward statement. keep going back to your mantra of capitalism = oppression if you like but my definition of capitalism isn't the same as yours. and if you'll accept this offering - stop using your current definition - and you'll likely accept capitalists as your servants, not your oppressors.

 

as I keep trying to offer sickmanlives - I'm trying to clearly identify the enemy and not be suckered into attacking the straw man.



#47 3S1

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:37 AM

^ They are all the enemy, even if they dont know it. Question: How many minds have you tried to open face to face? They need education and not the pre-poured variety. How do you propose you get through to people who only know winning...?



#48 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:04 AM

TV,
 
you are not hearing me every time I try to draw a clear distinction between genuine capitalism and that which is called capitalism by the fully corrupt corporate pirates in bed with the fully corrupt politicians at every level of government. and that appears to be the definition you are comfortable with.
 
mine is a  straightforward statement. keep going back to your mantra of capitalism = oppression if you like but my definition of capitalism isn't the same as yours. and if you'll accept this offering - stop using your current definition - and you'll likely accept capitalists as your servants, not your oppressors.
 
as I keep trying to offer sickmanlives - I'm trying to clearly identify the enemy and not be suckered into attacking the straw man.

 

I'm not? I thought I was and had addressed it.

 

In any case debating the finer points of what is "real" Capitalism vs. what's actually being practiced is about as productive as arguing about the definition of a "real" Christian when those who claim to be such do things that other self-described Christians disagree with or find abhorrent.
 
Just like there's never been a truly Communist country, there's never been a truly Capitalist country either (as anyone criticizing the economic status quo is quickly reminded) and that might be because theories are abstractions that will always fall short in real-world conditions. I'm more concerned with what is than what should or could be, and what is is in deep shit because (for starters) no economic theory takes issues of ecological sustainability into account.

 

 

Anyway, care to comment about my points regarding Twinkies (as a synecdoche for what's wrong with industrial society, which is that it twists and constrains humans into being compatible with the needs of machinery and efficient mass production instead of making itself compatible with the needs of humans, which don't involve Twinkies, etc.)?

 

When an economic "ism" is my servant and not my master I'll know because I will be living in a sustainable, non-toxic shelter drinking fresh, clean and potable water and eating maximally-nutritious, genuine food BUT (and this part's real important) I won't have to be a millionaire or give up all my Slack to achieve these goals. So I guess I should add the ability to spend time hanging out with friends and family simply enjoying each other's company to the list (I guess I'm just real high-maintenance and needy...).
 


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#49 wildedibles

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:36 PM

It is really hard to get away from pre packaged crap food it is sooo easy and sooo quick and soo yummy? well u crave it I dont know how yummy it is when it is gone in 2 mins

and the garbage in every step in the line to make it and the tons of it that is thrown out is ridiculous

Companys going out of business having to take their warehouses full of food to the dump to be not eaten while people go hungry in your country and mine this happens every day on the borders

waste in every step of the way

we need to stop buying but I know not all r in on this ... the working family has no idea how to cook anymore how to save time in the kitchen how to prepare a meal without a box and a bag to throw out

If you want to know where your money is going look at the garbage it creates .....

k now on with the boobies ;) gota love this site .....

some have told me I am a flower child born in the wrong generation I dont think I am I had some of the best teachers they were all baby boomers ;)


Edited by wildedibles, 06 February 2014 - 05:37 PM.


#50 riseabovethought

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:44 PM

Im stuck on the identifying the enemy part too.  Its always been a problem for me.  I feel like I could channel all the rage in the world, and direct it at their jugular, but the target is still so obscure.  The only time it appears to be coming into focus, is when the 99.9% vs .01% rule is applied.  I know it still has holes, but if these people were investigated for possible crimes against humanity, and then consequently fined appropriately, the most powerful and most expensive military on Earth would finally prove their worth, and then we could even follow that up by honoring treaties and taking care of our fallen soldiers.  I know it sounds crazy, but one day it'll sound like common sense, when corruption is not condoned by that same military.  I mean, WTF are we paying for??  - if not justice and (I hate to even use the word because its been so misused and sodomized) freedom.  We are so far away from that kind of reasoning, and its so sad.



#51 wildedibles

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:56 PM

I agree it is a blurry line and it should be there are lots of caring people ones that would help if they only knew how

this can send many people against each other and that is what "they" r really laughing at ;)

want change u gota find a way to make it

it still might not be the way you want it


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#52 pharmer

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:10 PM

TV,

 

re: Twinkies. They're in the business of selling "food" products, the same as people who make liquor. Free men who are adults can choose not to purchase a Twinkie (a de-facto Twinkie and all metaphorical Twinkies). So far no business and no government agents are forcing anybody to eat real or metaphorical Twinkies. However, governments are forcing, with threat of violence and/or prison, lots of behaviors we would not put upon ourselves. Which is the greater enemy?

 

Re: the isms

 

What is preventing you from living exactly the circumstances in your last paragraph? Seems to me that all those are readily attainable assuming you are willing to make them priorities and (possibly) do without something else. What does having to be a millionaire have to do with living like a pre-industrial  man? There aren't any nasty capitalists or corporatists or communists or Luddites or .......keeping you from it - yet you're still trying to imply that an ism IS. The only exception I can think of is consumerism which if I understand you correctly you're dead set against.

 

What am I missing?

 

Again, you're pissed off at somebody. I just can't fathom why it has to be people like me (capitalists as I've defined them). We're willing to let you live and make your own choices and be responsible for yourself - which is all we ask  from you.


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#53 3S1

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

If i may, the problem is, living that way, 1 day they will come knocking asking for their 5cents on the dollar or some other reason to plug you back in - and you'll be so unplugged and out of touch there'll be nothing (much) you can do about it..

#54 pharmer

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:38 PM

and if he can Render unto Ceasar and still have the lifestyle of his choice?



#55 3S1

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:41 PM

Then he's a better man than me. If i could get out, that would be the trap i'd fall into; with Utopia, what care have you of the outside? It promotes isolationism is all i'm saying. The global cyber village is still a long way off...

#56 wildedibles

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:42 AM

connecting and meeting people all over the world sharing :) ideas spores seeds etc :) us and our food is evolving I do not spend all my time plugged in but I do spend a little part of my day here trying to show people what they can eat for free ;) get your herbals for free ;)

 

one person told me here that they could have used Mycotopia when they were stuck and lost way up north for a week ...with more and more people taking their phones into the woods this kind of info could really help people identify mushrooms and plants to eat as ling as they have battery ;)

 

There is flaws there always will be some but global village :) the people r reaching out all over the world and we r not letting others tell us how it is anymore we look into it ourselves....we just dont take someones word for it anymore we listen to others like us we get together and talk and that is a real threat


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#57 3S1

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:52 AM

I like that...

 

What she said. And its true. Kinda like that GECK thingie...? The one where you can rebuild civilisation with 50 simple machines. That information is online and with 3d printers becomes something you can carry in your pocket. That is the global village meaning everything is nearby and friendly, not isolated and backward.

 

 

Cest la and stuff, just trying to pump out some hope. Excuse me...


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#58 wildedibles

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:24 AM

Hope is something that can change things cause it gets you motivated ;) There is a way :) might work??? lets try and get others excited

its like getting people into the pitch fork thing ;) but with positivity and real happiness sometimes along the way it is possible

....hehehe I was told yesterday that I needed to make my fav snack at home from the person i was buying it from ;) either that or I should buy stock in that company she told me ooops "u r the only one in here every day buying that same thing " she said

not buying something is harder than it sounds

but making my fav snacks at home is easier and better than it sounds and making healthy things is possible sharing this know how with the public and even possibly selling at markets so the people with no time or know how can get the healthier stuff too ;) with no or little less garbage trail behind it


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#59 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:12 AM

TV,
 
re: Twinkies. They're in the business of selling "food" products, the same as people who make liquor. Free men who are adults can choose not to purchase a Twinkie (a de-facto Twinkie and all metaphorical Twinkies). So far no business and no government agents are forcing anybody to eat real or metaphorical Twinkies.

 
 Freedom in the context of consumer choice is problematic when products are designed to resemble actual nutritious food but are instead made of ingredients included so as to expedite manufacturing and maximize shelf-life. Both of those factors are necessary for profitable economies of scale and worked ok until the need to keep growing at all costs so as to satisfy shareholders (the cancerous part of modern economics) dictated crossing an abstract line that we each have to draw for ourselves, I guess.

 

For me it's when a so-called "food" product is designed to maximize the manufacturer's and shareholder's interests ahead of the interests of the human beings who will actually be eating it.

 

How does freedom parse out in that context? Did I make an informed choice to buy a given product or was I misled into believing I was consuming something else? Are companies 'free' to obscure problematic ingredients or should I be 'free' to know about every single thing added to something sold for my/human consumption?  Those two freedoms are at odds, and since corporations are people too now they seem to be getting the lion's share of the Great -for them- Compromise (because "Some pigs are more equal than other pigs" -Orwell from Animal Farm).
 
This story seems relevant here that came out a couple of days ago:  Subway Takes Chemical Out of Sandwich Bread After Protest 
 

Subway said today it is removing a chemical used in yoga mats and shoe soles from the bread of it its popular sandwiches after a food blogger got more than 50,000 signatures in a petition drive.
 
"The complete conversion to have this product out of the bread will be done soon," Subway said in a statement. The company said the move had nothing to do with the protest and that it was "already in the process of removing azodicarbonamide as part of our bread improvement efforts."
 
But Vani Hari, the activist blogger who takes credit for the removal of yellow dyes in at least three of Kraft's Mac & Cheese products for children, was declaring victory after she had been researching the company's bread ingredients since 2012.

 
The scientific illiteracy is annoying (every ingredient in any food is a "chemical") but some chemicals are more bio-compatible than others. Azodicarbonamide is linked "...to respiratory issues, allergies and asthma, and it is banned in Europe and Australia. Azodiacarbonamide is legal in the United States and Canada." (from the article).
 
So this was well-known and yet Subway chose to include it anyway. Because they were free to do so. Anyone lacking a decent awareness of organic chemistry or the tenacity to research every ingredient they may consume is not making an informed choice when consuming a Subway sub, a Twinkie, or quite a few other things with freakishly-long shelf-lives, etc. Good thing our compulsory public educations taught us critical thinking skills, the basics of nutrition, and gave us a solid foundation in science to enable us to make more informed choices...[/sarcasm]

 

IMO we're already in a de facto famine, if by "famine" we mean "not enough food to go around." A few years ago Dr. Gupta on CNN had a special called "America's Killer Diet" and in it he pointed out that if every American tried to eat the minimum recommended daily allowances of fruits and vegetables and grains that there wouldn't actually be enough to go around. Uh, say what?

 

We pity people living in horrendous conditions (wonder why they choose to do that?) who resort to eating dirt just to stop the hunger pangs but I submit that Twinkies and many, many other placebo-foods (being mainly mined and all) are just flavored dirt. "Enriched" flour just means the minimum of essential nutrients were added back after bleaching makes flour non-nutritive (a practice that began when people kept getting more emaciated and starving no matter how much white bread they ate). And bleaching flour is unnecessary for humans to eat it but makes processing it easier and makes things baked with it nice and homogeneously white (which are obviously higher priorities than nutrition).
 

 

However, governments are forcing, with threat of violence and/or prison, lots of behaviors we would not put upon ourselves. Which is the greater enemy?

 
The U.S. Government is privatizing more and more of its use of coercive force, interestingly enough. But I definitely agree that it's also a major problem, though ranking enemies doesn't really help us because it's hard to say if getting cancer from placebo-food is the more dire threat we face or being sent to Guantanamo (or whatever) is until we either actually get cancer or the front door gets kicked in. But one of my main points about all this is that it's all connected.

 

Consider corporate lobbysists pushing for stricter laws and punishments just because they're lobbying for a company that owns prisons or administers drug tests or otherwise makes money off processing people through the criminal "justice" system; we have created the unsustainable reality of corporate "people" who have a vested interest not in preventing crime or alleviating its underlying causes but in profiting from it's continuation. That is socially corrosive to say the least, and in this example "freedom" isn't even a murky concept; being caged is rather unambiguous.

 

The line between the largest corporations and government is getting blurrier all the time, and that's extremely disturbing because Corporatism=Fascism. Halliburton comes to mind as a gigantic tumor that blurs the line between government and industry, as does Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now). And we underestimate the power and influence of ADM and Monsanto since they control the bulk of our food supply.

 

 

What is preventing you from living exactly the circumstances in your last paragraph? Seems to me that all those are readily attainable assuming you are willing to make them priorities and (possibly) do without something else. What does having to be a millionaire have to do with living like a pre-industrial  man? There aren't any nasty capitalists or corporatists or communists or Luddites or .......keeping you from it - yet you're still trying to imply that an ism IS. The only exception I can think of is consumerism which if I understand you correctly you're dead set against.

 
 Zoning laws. Building codes. "Designated Wilderness Areas," National Parks, Monuments, and Forests you're not allowed to stay in longer than X days.

 

Also, the fact that the wild areas left are not at all like they used to be before the first (and sometimes up to the 5th or 6th) clear-cutting or bulldozing or draining or damming of an area. So the wilderness of today is not like the much more fertile and easy-to-live-in wilderness that the Europeans encountered when they first got here. And the fertile areas where rational humans would live are all occupied; if you had to walk from Georgia to Maine for some reason you'd walk in the valleys and flatter areas and make the trip in 1 month, easy. But the Appalachian Trail isn't a transportation corridor, it's a recreational hiking trail and takes the most arduous, least-efficient path between the two points and that's largely because all the habitable/easy-living areas are taken and fenced (or paved).

 

Hitting the woods to live off the grid is something I've already actually done for years and not just talked about, so I can assure you these barriers are quite real and virtually insurmountable if one was raised in industrial society (the pace and priorities of life are completely different for starters). And within 2 short years of pitching our tent miles from the nearest stores and where people still waved at everyone they passed on the road, the stars began to be obscured from encroaching strip mall developments and gas stations.

 

After four years no one waved anymore and "the sticks" we'd moved to (because there were no building codes) was just another exurb. So if you try to run it'll just catch up to you eventually anyway and therefore must be faced and dealt with from the inside. So I came back. My option was that or move to the Northwest Territories or the Yukon but I couldn't afford the logistics and walking is impractical as everything is fenced or controlled-access and I'd be treated like a vagrant along the way (because I'd be one, and it's usually illegal) and I lack the skills to survive off-grid in such a harsh environment anyway (it'd take a good 10 years to really master it).
 
 

What am I missing?
 
Again, you're pissed off at somebody. I just can't fathom why it has to be people like me (capitalists as I've defined them). We're willing to let you live and make your own choices and be responsible for yourself - which is all we ask  from you.

 

Again, I'm not pissed so much as bummed about what might have been but am otherwise resigned to the increasingly-probable future. I used to get real angry about the wholesale destruction of the biosphere we depend on but like those asteroids heading our way the wholesale rape of the planet is way above my pay grade to confront, but I do what I can, like help people grow psilocybes so they can "see" this stuff for themselves.

 

And to be clear, I'm just fine with making a profit from my efforts and living as I see fit and letting others live as they see fit, within reason. It's not people like you or people trying to make a business profitable who are the problem; the very foundation of modern corporations (the Corporate Charter) is the problem. We're all essentially stuck in this paradigm and can't live without being part of the problem now, and that sucks IMO (though it's not our fault for finding ourselves stuck here, it IS our fault for staying here).

 

Since it demands growth and shareholder profits at all costs, Charters are literal tumors ("cancer" just means "unregulated growth") that will ultimately kill the patient, which is the economy/civilization as we know it. That and the "excessive rights of property" problem are the one-two punch that's taking us down IMCO (in my current opinion).


Edited by TVCasualty, 07 February 2014 - 10:19 AM.

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#60 riseabovethought

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:27 PM

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