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#1 trippinvegan

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 12:29 AM

sorry to be asking another question. im just new to casing.
i tried to find the answer to this but i couldn't. ive read what overlay is. but im still a little confused. what exactly should a good casing look like when about to fruit. should the casing be fully colonized on top? if so, then how is this different from overlay. does it have to do with the type of mycelium.
sorry again.

(Message edited by trippinvegan on February 05, 2005)

#2 Guest_taoist_*

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 09:55 AM

Overlay is any time a contam takes hold of your casing material, be it verm, coir, peat, whatever - I think the term layover comes from how it looks; when mycelium of your mushrooms grows through the casing it looks like its growing from underneath (which it is) where as the contams tend to come from the air or casing material itself and will start from the top of the case closest to the air, "overlaying" the casing.

(Message edited by taoistshredder on February 05, 2005)

#3 Guest_rodger_*

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:01 AM

um, sorry but no.

Overlay is when the mycelium fully colonizes the casing layer. It is to be avoided. Usually, overlay is caused by using materials for the casing layer that are better suited as substrate. Material such as coir, worm castings, manure, etc., should NOT be used for the casing layer. These are prone to overlay.

#4 Guest_taoist_*

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:05 AM

Really? If it's good growth then why is it to be avioded? If there's more myc on the surface of the casing I'd think it would pin better. Perhaps I need to readjust me knowledge of casings. lol I thought the point of a casing was to give the mycellium something to try and grow through so it will pin; is it more about moisture and air?

#5 trippinvegan

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:06 AM

so a casing shouldn't be fully colonized?

#6 Guest_rodger_*

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 10:37 AM

It is best that the casing material never fully colonizes.

The purpose of the casing layer is two-fold. It must help to supply moisture to the substrate below to sustain the fruiting. It can't do that if it's fully colonized because there is no casing material left to absorb/release moisture.

The casing layer also provides a humid microenvironment that is conducive to pinning. All those little gaps and holes in the casing layer provide the perfect environment for primordia formation. Once again, if the casing layer is fully colonized, it can't perform this function.


#7 trippinvegan

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 11:11 AM

oh, thanks.
do you incubate in darkness until you see little patches all over. then into the fruiting chamber with some light.

and thanks again.

#8 reefer

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 11:13 AM

true true

foaf gets better yields from casings that don't overlay, because you can continue to add moisture to the casing layer as the mushies grow. Which replenishes the moisture being taken from the casing. When overlay occurs you can't add any more moisture. Pinning is usually better on casings that don't fully colonize the casing layer.

#9 reefer

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 11:15 AM

"do you incubate in darkness until you see little patches all over. then into the fruiting chamber with some light."

I usually incubate until the subsrate layer is at least 95% colonized, then add the casing layer and incubate for one more day. Then place in fruiting conditions. There are so many different ways to do this, but this is what works for me.

What do you do rodger?

(Message edited by reefer37 on February 05, 2005)

#10 Guest_rodger_*

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 11:41 AM

I leave it covered with foil for three to four days after applying the casing layer. Then, uncover and subject to fruiting conditions.


#11 Lazlo

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 01:08 PM

Hey Rodger, I've been hearing stuff about using wax paper on top of the casing after the 4 day incubation period. Would you recommend doing that and if yes, do casings need to be fanned a couple times a day until pinning? In other words, applying new paper every couple of days or just leaving the paper alone and fanning slightly to remove excess CO2 from a chamber?

(Message edited by looper on February 05, 2005)

#12 Lazlo

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 01:17 PM

I also want to know if CO2 levels inside the casing are satisfactory for pinning with wax paper on the casing and are not going to spark up contams? Sorry, i want to try this if it's proven effective in creating a more even pinset without the worries of contamination.

#13 python

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 01:25 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

so a casing shouldn't be fully colonized?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

the substrate of the casing should be fully, the casing layer should not be.......

#14 trippinvegan

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:59 PM

i think i mad one of my casings too dry. if it is too dry but i still see some mycelium, is it ok to mist?

#15 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:22 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

if it is too dry but i still see some mycelium, is it ok to mist?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
should be ok
but try to avoid hitting the mycellia
dribbling/injecting with a syringe is sometimes a good option late in the game.


#16 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:24 PM

overlay can be beaten by dunking
overlay is when the mycellia becomes a thick mat that is resistant to water,
like we see on pf-style cakes.



#17 Guest_the_*

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 11:26 PM

Just a quick newbie question, what is the difference between the substrate and the casing layer?

#18 imok

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 11:46 PM

1st Welcome to Mycotopia Posted Image
"mi casa es su casa" Posted Image spanish
"a minha casa é a tua casa" Posted Image portuguese

2nd Substrate is the food the mycelium colonizes and grows
on to make the mushies.
Casing is the top non-food layer used to provide the substrate
the water needed to grow the mushies (they are approx 90% H20)
For any terms: Link:Glossary If you don't understand a term look it up here.

3rd Here are some links that will help you with the substrate, casing and other teks.

Link:Archives Has all of the collected wisdom, and information needed to be successful in this hobby(there is alot of info there, check the archives out yourself, updated often).

Link:Glossary If you don't understand a term look it up here.

Link:Search If you can't find it in the Glossary, use the Search function at the top of every page to search the archives and the rest of the board too.

Link:Illustrated Teks Complete step by step instructions with pictures(best of the best from the archives)

Link:Mycotopia's CD Set Mycotopia's entire database on a 2 cd set(useful information, photographs, TEKS, commentary, questions & answers, Shroomy ScreenSaver, Interactive Grower's Guide by Bookmaker and a Shroomy FAQ)

The following teks are from the front page of the Archives:

Link:BRF TEK: Cakes The original BRF Tek with all the details you need to be successful the first time.

Improving BRF Cake Formula: Super Cakes Getting the
best out of your cakes(not for beginners).

Link:Invitro [MycroTeks] Combines the BRF jar creation tek with a way to pursue this hobby with minimal labor and maximum stealth. Also known as the Invitro/stealth/neglect tek(has several names but the same basic tek)

Link:Sterilization & Pasturization Methods Keeping it clean and growing only what you want.

Link:Dunking Increase the number of flushes and the size of your shrooms(Important if using the invitro tek as a way to get the shroom its needed moisture; the shroom is 90% moisture)

Link:Bleach Dipping/ Salt Tek How to prevent contams and extend the life of your cakes/casings as well as what to do if your casings do get contamed(dipping follows dunking)

Link:Drug Dosage & Dosing: Recipes & Extracts How to enjoy the fruits of your labor safely (don't overdo it, slow and sure is the best way)

Link:Drying/Storage: Picking/Harvesting What to do with the shrooms when you are successful(you don't have to let the excess rot, you can store it for later instead)

Link:Spores, Prints & Syringes How to make your own syringes from prints and how to get prints from shrooms(become totally self sufficient with this information)

Link:Liquid Culture: Karo/Honey/Dextrose Q&A Ways to increase the amount of inoculate available(grow solution) without buying more syringes or prints(can also be combined with Cloning).

Link:Cloning A way to select the shrooms that do the best with your tek/environment/way of growing(combine with Liquid Culture to massively increase your production)

Link:Gloveboxes & Flowhoods How to eliminate your chances of contams while working with syringes/prints/cloning(A cheap cardboard glovebox is better than the cleanest room)

Link:Casings The next step in to bulk production both indoors and out(get familiar with the previous teks and you will increase your odds of success)

Link:Grain to Grain Transfers (G2G) & SuperSpawning Best ways to create the spawn/substrate for your casings(you can do it with cakes but grain is the best)

Link:Agar, Petri dishes, slants [Strain Isolation] For those who want to take this hobby all the way(scientific method required)

Link:Botanicals Other natural ethnogens(intended to expand your horizons)

Link:Secrecy & Stealth ; Privacy & Security Ideas on how to cover your backside as you participate in this hobby(better to learn from the experiences of others than first hand)

Spore/Supply vendor questions
The "price" is less important than the relationship you
establish with them and your comfort in dealing with them.
We have sponsors/vendors in the USA, Canada and Europe.
You have to determine which one(s) work best in your situation.

Link:Sponsors/Vendors Hippie guaranteed good service and products.
All vendors have been checked out and are monitored. If you
have a problem you can't work out with the vendor directly,
just PM Hippie and he will get it straight for you.


#19 Guest_rodger_*

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 11:47 PM

The substrate is the compost or manure that you colonize. The casing is a layer of vermiculite or a verm/peat combination that is applied to the top of the substrate to supply moisture and also to aid in pin formation. If you're using pf cakes, the cake is the substrate and the casing would be a layer of verm on top or bottom.

#20 Lazlo

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 11:48 PM

The substrate is the food source for mushrooms and the casing is the substrates source for moisture.




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