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No Amount of Alcohol is Safe


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#1 riseabovethought

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:02 PM

I know Im overstepping my bounds here, but try not to get defensive..  Its only an opinion and you know what they say about opinions.  Just thought you might enjoy a different perspective to ponder and this particular perspective is intended for Oncologists.  I guess they see a lot of esophogeal cancer especially associated with alcohol.  Lots of things can kill us quickly.  Alcohol is a CNS depressant that injures the initial contact areas like the mouth and esophagus most.  -Just somethin to gnaw on...

 

No Amount of Alcohol Is Safe

Laura A. Stokowski, RN, MS

Responsible Drinking? Not Very

 

"Responsible drinking" has become a 21st-century mantra for how most people view alcohol consumption. But when it comes to cancer, no amount of alcohol is safe.[1] That is the conclusion of the 2014 World Cancer Report (WCR), issued by the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Declared a carcinogen by the IARC in 1988,[2] alcohol is causally related to several cancers. "We have known for a long time that alcohol causes esophageal cancer, says Jürgen Rehm, PhD, WCR contributor on alcohol consumption, and Senior Scientist at the Centre for Addictions and Mental Health in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, "but the relationship with other tumors, such as breast cancer, has come to our attention only in the past 10-15 years."

 

The Risk Is Dose-Dependent

 

The more alcohol that a person drinks, the higher the risk. The alcohol/cancer link has been strengthened by the finding of a dose/response relationship between alcohol consumption and certain cancers. A causal relationship exists between alcohol consumption and cancers of the mouth, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, colon-rectum, liver, and female breast; a significant relationship also exists between alcohol consumption and pancreatic cancer.[1]

 

Links have also been made between alcohol consumption and leukemia; multiple myeloma; and cancers of the cervix, vulva, vagina, and skin, but fewer studies have looked at these relationships and more research is needed to establish a confirmed association.[1] For bladder, lung, and stomach cancers, the evidence for an alcohol-cancer link is conflicting.

 

How Solid Are These Data?

 

"For the cancers that have been identified as being causally linked with alcohol, we are absolutely certain that alcohol causes these cancers," says Dr. Rehm. "About a few cancers, such as pancreatic cancer, we are not yet certain," he says. "We believe that we have good evidence showing that alcohol can cause pancreatic cancer, but we would not go so far as we would for esophageal cancer or breast cancer. And for renal cancer, the IARC has said that there are indications that there may be an effect, but we don't have the same level of evidence that we have for cancers that are clearly detrimentally linked to alcohol."

 

But surely, light drinking doesn't cause or contribute to cancer? Apparently, it does. In a meta-analysis of 222 studies comprising 92,000 light drinkers and 60,000 nondrinkers with cancer, light drinking was associated with risk for oropharyngeal cancer, esophageal squamous cell carcinoma, and female breast cancer.[3] From this meta-analysis, it was estimated that in 2004 worldwide, 5000 deaths from oropharyngeal cancer, 24,000 from esophageal squamous cell carcinoma, and 5000 from breast cancer were attributable to light drinking. Light drinking was not associated with cancer of the colon-rectum, liver, or larynx.

 

However, a caveat is in order here. When alcohol use is self-reported, respondents might underestimate, or underreport, their actual alcohol intake.[4] This can result in finding associations between cancer and light to moderate drinking, when in reality, alcohol intake is much higher.

 

The Nuts and Bolts of Increased Risk

 

The biological mechanisms that mediate alcohol-related cancer are not fully understood.[1] Alcoholic beverages can contain at least 15 carcinogenic compounds, including acetaldehyde, acrylamide, aflatoxins, arsenic, benzene, cadmium, ethanol, ethyl carbamate, formaldehyde, and lead. Ethanol is the most important carcinogen in alcoholic beverages,[5] and the rate of ethanol metabolism is genetically determined.[6]

The first and most toxic product of alcohol metabolism is acetaldehyde. Ingested ethanol is oxidized by the enzymes alcohol dehydrogenase, cytochrome P4502E1, and catalase to form acetaldehyde.[5] Acetaldehyde also occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages. This metabolite is carcinogenic and genotoxic when in contact with the mucosa of the upper aerodigestive tract (pharynx, oral cavity, esophagus, larynx), where high concentrations of acetaldehyde induce mucosal hyperproliferation.[7] Even low doses of alcohol in direct contact with these areas can increase the risk for cancer.

 

Several different causative pathways are implicated in alcohol-related cancer.[1] For example, alcohol is a folate antagonist, and an alteration in folate metabolism and folate malabsorption are believed to interact with ethanol to impair DNA methylation.[8] In breast cancer, alcohol can increase estrogen levels and the activity of insulin-like growth factor receptors, which can stimulate mammary cell proliferation.[9] In digestive tract cancers, an individual's genotype could play a role. Other mechanisms that have been proposed include the production of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, and a role for alcohol as a solvent of tobacco carcinogens.[1]

 

The Hard Truth About Hard Liquor

 

The relative risk for alcohol-associated cancer depends on where ingested alcohol contacts body tissue, according to Dr. Rehm. Alcohol first contacts the oral cavity, followed by the esophagus, and for these sites the relative risk for alcohol-related cancer is highest. Next are the colon, rectum, and liver, and the relative risks for those cancers are lower than for the anatomical sites first in contact with ingested alcohol.

 

The type of alcohol -- wine, beer, spirits -- doesn't usually matter, except in the case of cancer of the esophagus. The esophagus is covered with very fine cilia that are easily destroyed by high concentrations of ethanol, such as found in hard liquor.

 

A Drink and a Smoke: Dangerous Combination

 

Smoking has long been established as a risk factor for cancer.[10] But smoking and drinking -- considered by many to be a pleasurable combination -- is a particularly dangerous mix. A synergistic effect has been found for tobacco smoking and alcohol consumption with respect to the risk for cancers of the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, and esophagus; the highest risks are seen in those who are both heavy drinkers and heavy smokers.[11] The esophageal mucosa of patients who both drink and smoke have shown a dose-dependent increase in esophageal mucosal cell proliferation. Avoidance of cigarettes and alcohol could prevent up to 80% of oral cancer cases and 90% of laryngeal cancer cases.


Edited by riseabovethought, 11 June 2014 - 01:47 PM.

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#2 riseabovethought

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

continues...

 

Isn't Modest Drinking Cardioprotective?

 

Alcohol is a double-edged sword.[12] Two decades ago, studies that explored the "French paradox" began to appear in the medical literature and were also picked up as news by the mainstream media. Light to moderate alcohol consumption appeared to have a cardioprotective effect. According to observational studies, the French, who had the highest alcohol intake (particularly of wine), also had the lowest incidence of cardiovascular disease.[13]

John Q. Public, who may have viewed these results as a "get out of jail free" card, may also have ignored the "small print" that cautioned against alcohol consumption as a measure to prevent cardiovascular disease.[14,15] The evidence showing lower risks for diabetes mellitus, stroke, heart failure, and total mortality stand in stark contrast to the harms associated with excessive alcohol consumption.[13]

 

Another problem with the notion of alcohol's protective effect on cardiovascular disease is that this effect depends on a consistent light to moderate drinking pattern, without episodic heavy or "binge" drinking. The ideal pattern seems to be daily low- to moderate-dose alcohol intake (preferably red wine) before or during the evening meal, which is associated with the strongest reduction in adverse cardiovascular outcomes. However, more is not better; in fact, more is dramatically worse. Heavy alcohol use causes hypertension, atrial fibrillation, ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke, and nonischemic dilated cardiomyopathy.[13]

 

The evidence for the harmful effects of alcohol is stronger than the evidence for its beneficial effects. Moreover, the risk-to-benefit ratio of drinking appears to be higher in younger individuals, who also have higher rates of excessive or binge drinking and more frequently suffer the adverse consequences of acute intoxication (accidents, violence, and social problems). In fact, among males aged 15-59 years, alcohol abuse is the leading risk factor for premature death.[12]

And yet, other than celebrity drunk-driving stories, we rarely see headlines about the harm caused by alcohol. Dr. Rehm comments, "I do not know why a beneficial link would be more important than a detrimental link, if the beneficial link overall is about one tenth of the detrimental link. We have counted how many studies are reported in the press, and there are many more reports on the beneficial link than on the detrimental link between alcohol and health."

 

"The public's acknowledgment of the risk associated with an exposure depends on the strength of that relationship. Because 80%-90% of cancer deaths are caused by tobacco, the risk is common knowledge. If your neighbor dies, the first thing people ask is whether he was a smoker. The relationship of alcohol with other cancers, however, might be in the range of 5%-40%. So if your neighbor dies of breast cancer, people wouldn't ask whether she was a drinker."

 

Assessment and Intervention

 

Alcohol consumption is viewed as a modifiable behavioral risk factor for cancer.[16] Clinicians frequently engage patients in discussions about such health behavior risks, and how to reduce them. How important is alcohol-related cancer risk, compared with all other risk factors for cancer? Is it worth the time and effort to try to convince patients to reduce their alcohol intake? Dr. Rehm explains, "We still don't know what causes 60% of cancers, but people can lower their risk by reducing their intake of alcohol."

 

Dr. Pekka Puska, former Director General of the National Institute for Health and Welfare of Finland and contributor to the WCR, would not be concerned about the use of alcohol in every patient. "Clinicians should inquire about alcohol use and inform patients about the health risks. For most patients, especially the elderly, if they consume alcohol in moderation, I would not pressure them to stop alcohol altogether. In patients who have health problems related to alcohol, however, clinicians should be very firm in advising them to stop using alcohol and recommend specific cessation services."

People often want to know how much they can drink -- what is a reasonable risk for me? "There is no risk-free level of alcohol consumption," says Dr. Rehm. "There is always some risk, and the risk increases in accordance with the level of consumption." Having said that, Dr. Rehm believes that it would be helpful to have low-risk drinking guidelines, written for the public, so that people who are going to drink anyway would know how much alcohol would increase their risk substantially. Such guidelines should recognize lower drinking limits for women and advise against episodes of heavy drinking.

 

Alcohol screening and brief clinical interventions by healthcare professionals can successfully and cost-effectively reduce alcohol consumption in many different healthcare settings, from primary care to hospital emergency departments.[17] Many alcohol screening tools are available. Behavior change and positive effects have been observed in adolescents, adults, older adults, and pregnant women following alcohol screening and brief interventions aimed at reducing alcohol intake.[18]

 

Warning: Drinking Is Hazardous to Your Health

 

Alcohol is no ordinary consumer commodity[18]; it requires extensive public policy in the form of regulation, taxation, and human services to cope with the damage that it causes. As one might expect, the interests of public health and the alcohol industry are sharply divided on alcohol policy.[18] Contributors to the WCR consider certain forms of alcohol policy in the best interest of the public.

"The prevalence of harmful use of alcohol," says Dr. Puska, "is closely related to the level of alcohol consumption in the general population." Accordingly, he believes that interventions should not be confined to high-risk alcohol users, but should address general alcohol consumption and be population-based.

 

Dr. Rehm suggests that in a modern society with consumer rights, a warning label mentioning cancer risk associated with alcohol consumption should be considered for all alcohol products. Some countries already have warning labels, but they typically mention only avoidance of alcohol during pregnancy. Warning labels should convey the risks associated with alcohol consumption in a language that is informative to the consumer.

 

Controlling the affordability of alcohol through pricing and taxation can reduce the volume of alcohol consumed, and thereby alcohol-related health and social harms, including cancer and mortality.[1] Increasing the price of alcohol affects all drinkers, from young people to heavy or problem drinkers. Dr. Puska explains:

In summary, any level of alcohol consumption increases the risk of developing an alcohol-related cancer, and that the risk rises in accordance with the level of consumption.

 

That is a discouraging message. However, the flip side is that any reduction in alcohol consumption will lower the cancer risk. Although no absolutely safe level of alcohol intake can be promoted, a return to the days of prohibition is not necessary to derive the health benefits of reduced cancer risk. However, what is essential is to increase public awareness about alcohol-related cancer risk and seek sensible ways to reduce that risk.The most cost-effective way to reduce alcohol problems in any country is reduction of total alcohol consumption. The more that alcohol is consumed in any country, the more alcohol-related problems there are. The experts and the World Health

Organization are quite clear that price and availability are the most effective policy instruments to influence alcohol consumption. Price is usually regulated by taxation. Availability relates to such issues as to whom, where, and when alcohol is sold. In addition, drunk-driving policies and mini-interventions in health services have some effect. Health information campaigns alone are not effective, but they are valuable as background for alcohol control measures (Table).

 

As Dr. Puska points out, "The risks associated with alcohol are not limited to cancer. Alcohol is related to multiple health problems. Patients should be informed about these, and should be concerned about the overall risk to their health. The clear relationship between alcohol and cancer is news for most people. However, that is only one component of the overall health message that should be delivered about alcohol."

 

http://www.medscape....rticle/824237_5


Edited by riseabovethought, 11 June 2014 - 01:35 PM.


#3 warriorsoul

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:39 PM

I see a lot of people promoting red wine as good for you.  It's the resveratrol and antioxidants in the wine that is good for you. You're better off drinking non-alcoholic wine if you want the benefits of these compounds.


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#4 Skywatcher

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:49 PM

In my case I find this believable, but I average one or two drinks every 2 months. Breathing smog is likely far more hazerdous to my health, but I have no plans to give up breathing either.........

:tongue:


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#5 Sidestreet

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:10 PM

Good read, thanks.  I had no idea that "80%-90% of cancer deaths are caused by tobacco," that's insane!

 

Like many others, I could stand to quit drinking.  I don't drink like I used to, for sure, but it still just doesn't serve me (heh).


Edited by Sidestreet, 11 June 2014 - 07:10 PM.

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#6 GadgetGuy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:49 PM

I must be a ghost then lol


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#7 riseabovethought

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:03 PM

I sure love drinkin, dont get me wrong...  but I also love knowing things.  I didnt know a lot of that stuff and Ive been drinkin heavy for years!  I dont think that stuff should be kept secret to sell more wine.  Even red wine injures the intial contact areas so Im dilluting it down with water, the way Alexander The Great did.  Bout half and half cuts it into something less palatable but maybe less harmful too..

 

I also find it interesting that alcohol being a central nervous system depressant, means that it slows down brain activity just like benzos do, and no matter how much you drink the liver protrects the brain to the death, even if it means destroying itself.


Edited by riseabovethought, 12 June 2014 - 03:34 PM.

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#8 August West

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 10:55 PM

I sure love drinkin, dont get me wrong...  but I also love knowing things.  I didnt know a lot of that stuff and Ive been drinkin heavy for years!  I dont think that stuff should be kept secret to sell more wine.  Even red wine injures the intial contact areas so Im dilluting it down with water, the way Alexander The Great did.  Bout half and half cuts it into something less palatable but maybe less harmful too..

 

I also find it interesting that alcohol being a central nervous system depressant, means that it slows down brain activity just like benzos do, and no matter how much you drink the liver protrects the brain to the death, even if it means destroying itself.

At some point you had gotten relief from ibogaine, if memory serves. Any updates?


Edited by August West, 12 June 2014 - 11:41 PM.

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#9 throwmeaway7

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:49 AM

Good read, thanks.  I had no idea that "80%-90% of cancer deaths are caused by tobacco," that's insane!

 

Exactly! It's completely insane because it's wrong. 

 

http://www.cancer.go...s/commoncancers

 

They probably meant lung cancer deaths and missed it in the edit. 


Edited by throwmeaway7, 13 June 2014 - 09:50 AM.

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#10 riseabovethought

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:02 AM

August, nice to see you.  Ibogaine interrupted my alcohol addiction for sure, like hitting a brick building face first.  It knocked it back a step.  I recovered and stayed away from it for a year... then had a glass of wine, then more and more until BAM!  I interrupted it again.  This time as I lied dying, wishing for relief from this gut wrenching twisted pain while vommitting my brains out and praying to God for it to stop, the lesson that I received over and over in blazing fire over my soul is that it was always just a decision and I didnt have to go through that hell to learn I could've just made the decision like others have done before me and they made the decision and made it stick.  I could do it without Ibogaine; thats what Ibogaine taught me in blazing white detail.  Its just a decision. 

 

For me it helps to think of it as something that slows down brain activity, because then I want it less.  But then again the addiction itself, its own sort of living entityness, its urges when they go against one's own, the stench of it almost seeks more of itself from within, its all kind of creepy really.  I know we have full control over these things, its just weird that I sortof forget and automatically want more and more and more and never really see the problem, or cloak it from myself.  Its like who's driving here?  I think if I could just realize how bad it is for me and that I've already had my lifetime supply of alcohol, then maybe I could get over it and just get along without it.


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#11 nomadicAI

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:43 AM

Very interesting information. Thanks for posting. I am also in the "could stand to cut down" camp.


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#12 1967FordTitus

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:55 AM

I have, among other maladies, Type 1 Diabetes, and only have a drink maybe once or twice a year now. Before I became diabetic however, I was a very regular drinker. I have worked in many bars as a bouncer, and as a bartender, and have witnessed what problem drinking can do to good people.

This is a great thread, riseabovethought, full of thought provoking information, thank you for the input.

#13 riseabovethought

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:24 AM

I should probably add that the reason alcohol damages us on contact is because of multiple chemical reactions that expose us to acetaldehyde along with a host of lesser insults like arsenic, benzene, cadmium, ethanol, formaldehyde and lead poisoning sustained over a long period of time.  ..but its the acetaldehyde that really fucks us up.  

 

Acetaldehyde

 

Acetaldehyde 100px-Acetaldehyde-2D-flat.svg.png 75px-Acetaldehyde-tall-2D-skeletal.png 100px-Acetaldehyde-3D-balls.png 100px-Acetaldehyde-3D-vdW.png

Acetaldehyde (systematic name ethanal) is an organic chemical compound with the formula CH3CHO, sometimes abbreviated by chemists as MeCHO (Me = methyl). It is one of the most important aldehydes, occurring widely in nature and being produced on a large scale in industry. Acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit, and is produced by plants. It is also produced by the partial oxidation of ethanol and may be a contributing factor to hangovers from alcohol consumption, produced in the liver by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase. Pathways of exposure include air, water, land, or groundwater, as well as drink and smoke.[4] Consumption of disulfiram inhibits acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, the enzyme responsible for the metabolism of acetaldehyde, thereby causing it to build up in the body.

 

Dangers Toxicity

 

Acetaldehyde is toxic when applied externally for prolonged periods, an irritant, and a probable carcinogen.[24] It is an air pollutant resulting from combustion, such as automotive exhaust and tobacco smoke. It is also created by thermal degradation of polymers in the plastics processing industry.[25] Acetaldehyde naturally breaks down in the human body[26] but has been shown to excrete in urine of rats.[27]

Irritation

 

Acetaldehyde is an irritant of the skin, eyes, mucous membranes, throat, and respiratory tract. This occurs at concentrations up to 1000 ppm. Symptoms of exposure to this compound include nausea, vomiting, headache. These symptoms may not happen immediately. The perception limit of acetaldehyde in air is in the range between 0.07 and 0.25 ppm.[10] At such concentrations, the fruity odor of acetaldehyde is apparent. Conjunctival irritations have been observed after a 15-minute exposure to concentrations of 25 and 50 ppm, but transient conjunctivitis and irritation of the respiratory tract have been reported after exposure to 200 ppm acetaldehyde for 15 minutes. It has a general narcotic action and large doses can even cause death by respiratory paralysis. It may also cause drowsiness, delirium, hallucinations, and loss of intelligence. Exposure may also cause severe damage to the mouth, throat, and stomach; accumulation of fluid in the lungs, chronic respiratory disease, kidney and liver damage, throat irritation, dizziness, reddening, and swelling of the skin.

Carcinogenicity

 

Acetaldehyde is a probable or possible carcinogen in humans.[24][28] In 1988 the International Agency for Research on Cancer stated, "There is sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of acetaldehyde (the major metabolite of ethanol) in experimental animals."[29] In October 2009 the International Agency for Research on Cancer updated the classification of acetaldehyde stating that acetaldehyde included in and generated endogenously from alcoholic beverages is a Group I human carcinogen.[30] In addition, acetaldehyde is damaging to DNA[31] and causes abnormal muscle development as it binds to proteins.[32]

 

Aggravating factors Alzheimer's disease

 

People with a genetic deficiency for the enzyme responsible for the conversion of acetaldehyde into acetic acid may have a greater risk of Alzheimer's disease. "These results indicate that the ALDH2 deficiency is a risk factor for LOAD [late-onset Alzheimer's disease] …"[33]

Genetic conditions

 

A study of 818 heavy drinkers found that those exposed to more acetaldehyde than normal through a defect in the gene for acetaldehyde dehydrogenase are at greater risk of developing cancers of the upper gastrointestinal tract and liver.[34]

 

Disulfiram

The drug disulfiram (Antabuse) prevents the oxidation of acetaldehyde to acetic acid, and it has the same[clarification needed] unpleasant effect on drinkers. Antabuse is sometimes used as a deterrent for alcoholics wishing to stay sober.

Sources of exposure Indoor air

 

Acetaldehyde is common contaminant in workplace, indoors, and ambient environments. It is also a potential carcinogen. Moreover, humans spend more than 90% of their time in indoor environments, hence increasing any exposure and, as a consequence, the risk to human health.[35]

In a study in France, the mean indoor concentration of acetaldehydes measured in 16 homes was approximately seven times higher than the outside acetaldehyde concentration. The living room had a mean of 18.1±17.5 μg m−3 and the bedroom was 18.2±16.9 μg m−3, whereas the outdoor air had a mean concentration of 2.3±2.6 μg m−3.

 

It has been concluded that VOCs such as benzene, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, toluene, and xylenes have to be considered as priority pollutants with respect to their health effects. It has been pointed that in renovated or completely new buildings, the VOCs concentration levels are often several orders of magnitude higher. The main sources of acetaldehydes in homes include building materials, laminate, linoleum, wooden varnished, and cork/pine flooring. It is also found in plastic water-based and matt emulsion paints, in wood ceilings, and wooden, particle-board, plywood, pine wood, and chipboard furniture.[36]

 

Outdoor air

 

The use of acetaldehyde is widespread in different industries, and it may be released into waste water or the air during production, use, transportation and storage. Sources of acetaldehyde include fuel combustion emissions from stationary internal combustion engines and power plants that burn fossil fuels, wood, or trash, oil and gas extraction, refineries, cement kilns, lumber and wood mills and paper mills. Acetaldehyde is also present in automobile and diesel exhaust.[37]

 

Tobacco smoke

 

Acetaldehyde is a significant constituent of tobacco smoke. It has been demonstrated to have a synergistic effect with nicotine in rodent models of addiction.[38][39] Acetaldehyde is also the most abundant carcinogen in tobacco smoke; it is dissolved into the saliva while smoking.

 

Cannabis smoke

 

Acetaldehyde has been found in cannabis smoke. This finding emerged through the use of new chemical techniques that demonstrated the acetaldehyde present was causing DNA damage in laboratory settings.[40] However, UCLA pulmonologist Dr. Donald Tashkin, supported by other research, concluded that the active ingredient tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, has an “anti-tumoral effect” in which “cells die earlier before they age enough to develop mutations that might lead to lung cancer” from acetaldehyde and other carcinogens.[41]

 

Alcohol consumption

 

Many microbes produce acetaldehyde from ethanol, but they have a lower capacity to eliminate the acetaldehyde, which can lead to the accumulation of acetaldehyde in saliva, stomach acid, and intestinal contents. Fermented food and many alcoholic beverages can also contain significant amounts of acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde, derived from mucosal or microbial oxidation of ethanol, tobacco smoke, and diet, appears to act as a cumulative carcinogen in the upper digestive tract of humans.[42]

  http://en.wikipedia....ki/Acetaldehyde


Edited by riseabovethought, 18 June 2014 - 09:55 AM.


#14 Mind

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:20 PM

"Would rather have an empty bottle infront of me. Then a full frontal lobotomy.'' A grim motto from a call it what you want to call it, friend.


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#15 BlackPeter17

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:50 PM

Neurotoxin people, NEUROTOXIN!  many afools Ive taken care of wasting they lives away as a slave to the bottle. I've seen the ends of many roads to the alcoholic life and none that end pretty.  why this substance is regulated and distributed with little assistance for detoxing, sober houses, and lifestyle changes after citizens of the countries lives are destroyed.  I've studied the effects on the central nervous system, I've also seen a lot of MRIs of alcoholics when studying how the brain matter/compositional changes in chronic alcohol abuse.  its pretty amazing to see the damages first hand.  All the while I am over indulging my self…  we are all guilty of it I'm sure.  but it needs to be moderated if you want to live longer.  in my travels through employment I've met a lot of people, and sick people.  people of all ages and a large percentage aged 40-101.  one time I have met a healthy person who said they drink alcohol regularly who was over the age of 80.  most alcoholics will die before they reach 70.  Ive met many people over the age of 80 too.  some over 90 and sharp as a nail.  every time I ask an 80+ year old that has appropriate mentation to be able to recall the past, they say they never drank a drink in their life.  

 

I can think of many substances that should be legal.  alcohol is not in the top 5.  My dr told me at 28 moderation, only for special occasions.  since then I changed my life.  I having been intoxicated since the day before christmas, and the once or sometimes twice a month indulgence is no more than 1-2 beers that I treasure.  It takes some serious mental psychological responses to change the drinking habits in an established drinker.  I feel psychoactive methods to spark these changes are just as successful if not more than without psychoactive experiences. we are talking a complete re-wire.  


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#16 Pilzkopf

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

Geeze. I'm 20 years old and I WAS happy drinking a bottle of everclear in two weeks...now I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another bottle of it. You can bet I'm going to get messed up on my 21st, but other than that, I'm going to make a new friend, named moderation. Thanks, everyone, for your stories and information.

Love to all. :)



#17 August West

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 01:34 AM

I'm going to make a new friend, named moderation.

 

With regard to alcohol, at least, if you're wise, you'll follow the advice you've given yourself - even if it's on an anonymous message board. If this thread changes your habits concerning alcohol, then Rise deserves a gold star (If I believed behaviorism was ultimately positive).


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#18 Spooner

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 02:01 AM

Oxygen contributes to rust, fire, and oxidative degenerations in the human body, but it is not necessairly healthy to avoid it entirely.

 

The simple truth is that tabloid style categorical headlines tend to represent an incomplete view of reality.

 

http://www.webmd.com...and-your-health


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#19 riseabovethought

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:19 AM

Or maybe we've been fed a bunch of lies our whole life.

Drinking is part of our culture, its how we greet a friend.

 

Its how we bond deeply with family members or bury the hatchet.

Something about harming ourselves together, like blood brothers..

 

Its pretty hard to even imagine that it might harm me physically more than any other substance I ingest,

and then to also factor in my over- indulgence for the past many years, I blame society, yep I said it. YOU!

 

You offerred me that drink and what was i going to say -No?  Oh right, and would not smoking the peace pipe have saved the Indians?

I dont think so.  That webMD link led to 5 individual Drs' opinions on 'drinking,' whereas whats wriiten above is intended for oncologists about us.

It wasnt waterred down for the general public.  We have been fed a bunch of lies and we're so very predictable its kindof embarrassing.

 

Its not a simple thing, its interwoven through our culture and underneathe our fingernails.

Comparing drinking to oxygen is like comparing self-mutilation to water, but I sorta get your point.


Edited by riseabovethought, 20 June 2014 - 01:53 PM.

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#20 Spooner

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:40 AM

My point is simply that things have effects on each other, sometimes harmful, and also sometimes beneficial.

To say, "NO AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL IS SAFE" does not represent an accurate representation of the totality of human experience and experiment. 

Like most categorical statements, it is a myopic view of reality that disregards all evidence which does not concur with its conclusions, and therefore limits knowledge rather than expanding knowledge.

 

BTW I did have a glass of wine last month, but been eating grapes and pineapples mostly since then.

 

P.S. Alcohol is just yeast piss, so I am not particularly a fan of consuming it.


Edited by Spooner, 20 June 2014 - 11:48 AM.

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